Behind the Scenes: Dallas Marathon Leaders Marcus Grunewald & Jodi Jordan Reveal New McKinney Race + December Details

DFW Running Talk: Marcus and Jodi
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we have two extremely fun and exciting guests. My first

guest is Marcus Grunewald. Marcus, how are you?

Marcus Grunewald: I'm doing great, Chris.

Chris Detzel: Great, and ~we'll get to,~ we'll let people know who you are in a minute, and then Jodi Jordan. Jodi, how are you

Jodi Jordan: doing?

Awesome. Thank.

Chris Detzel: So what do you do, Marcus? What's your, uh,

Marcus Grunewald: that's a good question. A lot of people ask me that. I am the executive managing director for the Dallas White Rock Marathon Organization, which puts on the annual BMW Dallas Marathon.

Chris Detzel: Wow. I'm finally excited to have you, Jodi. Tell me about you.

What do you do?

Jodi Jordan: I am the operations director for the BMW Dallas Marathon.

Chris Detzel: Well, that, that's really awesome. So before we kind of dive deep in, I wanna get to know a little bit about both of you, if that's fair. So you've been the Dallas Marathon Executive Director, [00:01:00] but now you're executive managing director.

Hopefully I got that right.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah, that's

Chris Detzel: correct. Um, first of all. Have you always been into running? What's the Uh,

Marcus Grunewald: no. Actually, in college we had a running group. I went out one, uh, time with them and thought that was for, uh, the birds and really didn't run again until after college. I graduated, moved to Dallas and one of my college buddies, fraternity brothers, moved to Dallas the year after me when we met up and became roommates.

He told me I was getting fat and I've always been a skinny kid. And I looked down and, uh, sure enough, there was a, a 10 pound beer gut that I had developed over the past year. He had run all through college and he got me back or got me into running to a point where I really enjoyed it.

Chris Detzel: Wow. And would you just start hanging out with him to run or was it five Ks 10?

What?

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah, just, just like any running group it, you know. My roommate Rick worked at HKS Architects. They had a small running group there and I started attending their running group meetings and training with 'em and met some other runners and joined with some other faster groups [00:02:00] and then, and then got more into it.

It's funny, Rick took me to my first 5K. I had no idea what it was. No, it was a five miler run to reunion, five miler back in the early eighties, and I knew nothing about running other than he told me I really ought to run around Bachman Lake once before we go do this race. At the race. He said, just follow him and not knowing better.

We got on the front line and he said, just follow me when the gun goes off. The gun went off and he took off like it was a hundred yard dash and I made it maybe 50 yards before I doubled over and couldn't breathe. But that was the hook that got me. Started and I think for the next several months, I ran a race every weekend and when you're new to running and you keep getting a little bit better and better and better, it's very encouraging.

So back from a five mile, I could barely finish to doing, you know, marathons, ultra marathons, 50 miles and stuff. It's, it was something that, a good habit I developed, I guess.

Chris Detzel: You just said 50 milers.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah, I've done one 50 miler. RAC raccoon.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. That's crazy.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah, it's fun. Crazy fun. You know, people ask me, why would you run 50 miles?

It's like, I would rather [00:03:00] be out in the woods running around like a little boy than behind a computer for for eight hours.

Chris Detzel: I remember the day. I've seen you several times. The run trail runs. I've probably been at some of your trail runs or, uh,

Marcus Grunewald: yeah,

Chris Detzel: trail runs. I, I've always liked trail. I mean, I haven't done it in a couple years.

That's pretty cool. I know you used to lift weights and stuff too.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah. Uh,

Chris Detzel: for a while

Marcus Grunewald: in my thirties I was racing quite a bit and developed some nagging running injuries that wouldn't go away. And I met this guy during a bike ride across Iowa, the Rag Bri, I. Every year he did something different. The year before that, he was into hot air ballooning and actually bought a hot air balloon.

And he said after bike riding for a full year, he was going to train and do Ironmans. But he always did something different. And he told me that his way of alternating different things was so he would stay healthy. And I met a, I met a guy who was in a weightlifting and, uh. He gave me some exercises that would help me as a runner.

And then just like when I first started running, when I first started lifting weights, I got better and better and better. And so that became the big passion. I still ran just as a warmup for with lifting, but I went from my running weight of 1 [00:04:00] 65 up to almost 2 0 5, uh, with actually less body fat.

And it was just another challenge, but I was looking long term as you need to, you know? Yeah. When you're running marathons and stuff. And, um. When I turned, I did that when I turned 40 and when I turned 50, I went to the, the YMCA, I took the bar bills, picked them up once, put 'em down, and I was done with weightlifting and bodybuilding.

And then I got back into running and racing. And it was a, a really exciting time, uh, because at that time I weighed 2 0 2, 2 0 3 and to try to work my way back down to, to racing weight was extremely difficult, but also extremely fun to kind of start over. The injuries were gone and I've been running pretty much injury free since.

Chris Detzel: Wow. That's pretty amazing. Jodi. How are you?

Jodi Jordan: I'm doing great.

Chris Detzel: Great. So tell me a little bit about you. I know you've done some half Ironmans, you've done marathons, you've done a lot of different things. What. First of all, what got you into running and why are you so excited about doing this still?

Even working and running stuff.

Jodi Jordan: Yeah. I started back in my twenties just to get, get healthier. I was quite the partier in my [00:05:00] nice, in my college and post college years. And a friend of mine, s Skidmore wanted to join the Riot Running Institute of Texas Group back in the Bob Wallace stays at Run-on.

And so we started with a half. Marathon and um, I think the first one that I did the first half marathon distance, um, was the 13.1. It was the Allstate. 13.1. I think it only was around for one or two years. Started at at t Performing Arts Center. I started with that and then first full marathon was Oklahoma City Marathon.

Chris Detzel: So let's back up a little bit. So when you started running, did you do anything in like high school, college? You did nothing. You didn't do any sports

Jodi Jordan: high school? I, I played like field hockey. Okay. And I was a cheerleader, but I was not athletic. Okay. I bet my nickname was the ref because I was frequently just told to stand on the sidelines and, and be the ref.

Marcus Grunewald: I thought, I thought you played volleyball.

Jodi Jordan: No, no, no, no. I mean,

Chris Detzel: field

Jodi Jordan: hockey, she

Chris Detzel: would've a hard time unless she's just bumping at, right.

Jodi Jordan: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Is that wrong?

Jodi Jordan: It's, no, it's true. It's true.

Chris Detzel: [00:06:00] Okay, so you got into half marathons. Mm-hmm. And you ran your first and

Jodi Jordan: immediately went to full slightly. Okay. I was, I jumped on board and like Marcus did race after race and I was doing a lot of the run project races.

Yeah. Back when they had the Santa Fe trail 5K and met, like I said, Bob Wallace started doing heart rate training, started to get a little bit faster. Mm. Um, and then told him I wanted to be a race director and he said, you're crazy. And, uh, come on we'll. We'll take you and show. This was

Chris Detzel: for

Jodi Jordan: Bob Wallace for, uh, racing Systems at the time.

Okay. And so he then moved to Colorado and, and Tana Wood took over and so I worked at, uh, racing Systems on the run project series and that was back and years ago.

Chris Detzel: Okay. So you've been doing kind of this stuff for a little while. Tell me more, like what else? So for 10 years you did the racing system was a great,

Jodi Jordan: that was about 10 years ago.

Chris Detzel: 10 years ago. Okay.

Jodi Jordan: 10 years ago. And then I was the, uh, life aite walk director, and then I went. [00:07:00] Back over to racing systems and did some work through COVID. Mm-hmm. With her once I had my kids. So there was a lot of flexibility there to work, work events. We work long and hard, but we have flexibility.

So it's conducive to having kids. I would say.

Chris Detzel: There's so much I wanna ask you, but I think that

Jodi Jordan: there's a lot there,

Chris Detzel: there's a lot to unpack there. I won't go deep into that, but, you know, you've, you've had the background of, events and operations and so. Kind of this next step of, where Marcus, you know, he was telling me a long time ago that one at some point he wants to retire, you know, he's, he's been doing this.

How long have you been doing this, Marcus?

Marcus Grunewald: So this year will be my 24th year as race director for the marathon. I was a volunteer for four or five years before that. I think I started in 97 working on it. And um, it's funny, I never thought about retirement until something just. Kind of a light bulb goes off in your head.

I, I really, I think when I met Jodi, she came to work for us as a contractor through mutual friends, right after the pandemic.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Marcus Grunewald: And, um, she was looking [00:08:00] for some part-time work and had excellent references. And we met, I could just tell there was something about her that would make her really good and she became my assistant race director.

And the more I got to know Jodi, and then when we were eventually able to hire her earlier this year, retirement made a lot more sense.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Marcus Grunewald: And I, I really love what I do. I also love seeing the rest of the organization, we now have five full-time employees, what they add to the overall existence of the marathon and the organization.

Yeah. I kind of feel like the grandfather watching the grandkids open Christmas run and get, you know, growing up and getting and so I know you look so young. Running kind of helps I guess. Yeah, it does. Uh, I've been very fortunate. Maybe the weightlifting helps for a little while. I don't know. I wanna do things while I am still able to do things and I really enjoy the running, I'm looking forward to actually running more now at my age, I have to need more time for recovery.

So that's, that's the big thing. But again, I, I can see the marathon getting better and better, and with Jodi helping out and then eventually taking over, it's, it's in really good hands. And I look forward to maybe even running in the Dallas [00:09:00] Marathon for the first time since back in the, the early nineties.

Chris Detzel: That's the first, that's the only time you've run?

Marcus Grunewald: No, actually, before I got involved with the marathon, I completed 10 of the Dallas White Rock marathons. Probably ran in 13 and used it as a training, one for some others. But yeah, 10, 10 completions. My medals from finishing back in those days all looked the same.

Except for maybe some of 'em have a date on it. And I said, if I ever have anything to do with this organization, we're changing up the middles, which is something we do every year now. Yeah. It's amazing to me that the designers can come up with a design that betters the previous year's design, but a, a, a great artist and graphics team that helps us with this each year.

Chris Detzel: That's really awesome, Jodi. So your first year of full-time work here, you know, at Dallas Marathon, what has that been like? And tell us a little bit about kinda what you've been doing and what you've been learning and.

Jodi Jordan: So little backstory. Yes. I, I contracted with, with Marcus, and then our operations team asked me to come on board with them full time.

And so I've been working with the Dallas [00:10:00] Marathon for about four years, but

Chris Detzel: Okay, so you've known.

Jodi Jordan: Yes.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Got it.

Jodi Jordan: But now I'm, it's just a different capacity where I am now the client essentially. With our operations team, if that makes sense. We make a lot, we're, we're decision makers and, um, so it's a lot more hands on from that perspective.

Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. And, and I've only been, been onboard since September, but was, like I said, already working not that long on the events. Not that long. It's not that long, but it's definitely different.

Marcus Grunewald: Her experience with the BM BMW marathon goes way back Yes to when she first worked with and, and just to clarify things, we have a third party.

Operations team. They do event management, production a company called Event Southwest. I'm not, you know, it's not like in the early years it was just me alone. I wasn't putting this off. There were tons of volunteers. And then over time we hired, uh, event Southwest to help with the heavy lifting. And so Jodi went to, everyone loves Jodi.

Uh, they met her, uh, during race weekend and we were fighting, who is gonna hire her first? And even Southwest got their Hope Center before I could, [00:11:00] but I was looking long term and, uh, so she gained. Much more valuable experience in her years with Event Southwest working on a numerous, and in fact, this is how smart Jodi is.

She told me when she told me she was gonna take that job, that she can gain much more experience working on numerous events through Event Southwest than if she came to work for us and just have, you know, one event a year.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: And so, uh, it made a lot of sense to me and I think that's how we were able to hire her when we finally did is I told her that if she stayed at Event Southwest.

She would be an account manager working on all these different events. Yeah. But really wouldn't get the recognition that she will. As the eventual race director at Dallas Marathon, she will be the person the gal that, that gets it done.

Jodi Jordan: That's no pressure. Yeah, no pressure.

Marcus Grunewald: How

Chris Detzel: exciting is that?

Jodi Jordan: It's pretty exciting.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Jodi Jordan: But it's, it's exciting 'cause of the, the base. It's been laid. It's an incredible event

Marcus Grunewald: and it's, it's a huge responsibility because especially as active as she is in the running community, everything we do is about, well, not everything really. A lot of [00:12:00] things we do is about the runners.

What can we do to make this the best event for the runners? Yeah. And being runners ourselves, you know, we cannot only look at it from a business perspective, but the actual end user perspective, how are they gonna, how are they gonna respond to these things? Mm-hmm. Our goal is to. First of all, keep everybody safe that's involved, but also to enhance the experience as much as we can with our year to year learnings.

And I think you've seen that through the marathon, the Dallas Marathon, each year as as we add new things, new programs, attributes and so forth. And I think that's one reason why we continue to sell out quicker and quicker each year as we keep innovating to make it a better event.

Chris Detzel: I think that it's funny because I remember running the Dallas Marathon, whatever it was called back in 2014.

It was a cool event, but it's nothing like it is today. I remember a couple times I was like, oh, you know, it's an okay event or whatever, but you, you tell me if I'm wrong and, and may, I don't wanna overstep here, but I do remember. Something happened five to six, seven years ago that

Jodi Jordan: mm-hmm.

Chris Detzel: That changed the way Dallas [00:13:00] Marathon was.

Right. So instead of just having a half and a full, and I think you guys added a 50 K, 5K and a 10 K, he brought in a dude from Disney. He did. He kinda mandated it. Not to say that was. I don't know the back end of the stories, but what I do know is now if you look at it and maybe just some of that's come to fruition and it took time to really build it out.

Yeah. But man, the last two years for sure and if you look, if you're on the forums, like I have a forum and you know, WRC and then Plano, Pacers, Plano, a running cloud, all those people see all the new people coming in, begging for a bib, trying to sell their bib, trying to get, it's been crazy the last two years for sure.

And to this year has been doubly crazy. I mean, because it sold out within like, I don't know, just a few months really quick. And I love that. Like I, I mean the, the event has become pretty amazing, and, and it's become bigger and it's become kind of one of the staples of Dallas Fort Worth, you know, and, and I know Cal Town does an amazing job as well.

So those are really the two, in my opinion, the two big events of the year. [00:14:00] You know, you, not to say there's not other smaller ones, talk more about like, how do you. Think I I wanna get before I get you to talk more, 'cause you, you have a, I know you have tons of history. How do you think about that?

Jodi, as you look at this year into the, the future of, you know, Dallas, how do you make that better? You know, like it's, how do you think about it? You know,

Jodi Jordan: How do I think about it? My, my biggest goal. ~My biggest goal, I would say, personally is to have the community buy-in.~

~We have the runner buy-in. I want community buy-in. I want more community buy-in.~ I want, I want neighborhoods linking our course. Mm-hmm. I want business. I love that businesses coming out and supporting and that is, that is sponsor.

Chris Detzel: Things

Jodi Jordan: like that. We, and we have great sponsors. Yeah. Yeah. But don't have sponsors.

But people do have to put their lives on hold on Sunday, December 14th and whatever day that is in that year, and I, and I want. People to have the joy that the runner has at the finish line when they see the, when they're a spectator. So I, I wanna feel what you feel in Chicago, in New York, in Boston, in Dallas.

And we are on our way. So I think, so we are on our way and that's, that is how I see this race growing even [00:15:00] more. Because we have run our buy-in, which is incredible. We want our. Runners to stay local, of course, experience at other, other places, run other events, but to call this their home race and, and put it on the calendar every year.

And now I want, um, more community support and I do feel like we're headed in that direction.

Chris Detzel: So just to back up, you know, just a personal question kind of is. You've done a lot of running yourself, like you're almost at a, under a three hour marathon. No, you're not there yet.

Jodi Jordan: Oh, no, I'm

Chris Detzel: You did 57. 57.

That's okay. Cow Town Cowtown, that's actually kind of crazy. Cowtown is not generally a pr, but that's pretty amazing that you did that. Thank

Jodi Jordan: you.

Chris Detzel: That's right. At, uh, Chicago, you're trying to hit under a three again, and you, you were very close.

Jodi Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I just went out a little too fast but warm. That was

Chris Detzel: close.

Warm. It was warm and I mean, look, you know it, I think. But how does that affect and this is kind of a serious question, how does that affect your racing as you move forward? Being, being full-time with Dallas Marathon does, I mean, I know you've worked before, so I mean, it's not like you haven't done juggled many things.[00:16:00]

Jodi Jordan: You know, I would say the, the job doesn't impact my running as much as my family impacts my running

Chris Detzel: Exactly.

Jodi Jordan: Yeah. The job, I mean, Marcus and the team, everybody is extremely flexible and supportive, so that is not really the issue. The issue are the kids play more sports and that that's right. So I just do everything before daylight and I'll sleep when I die.

Chris Detzel: You're gonna have to especially

Jodi Jordan: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Well, and especially for the next few months. 'cause what is it? Uh, November. And so, you know, you get a few weeks until, Dallas is up. So

Jodi Jordan: the one other way that it impacts my running is when I do run another race, I think about it much differently. You know?

Yeah. I, I come back and I say, you wouldn't believe the barricade coverings and wanna report back. So that, that is. Look at the porta-potty layout. I mean, things like that. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: What's been your biggest challenge so far?

Jodi Jordan: Professionally, or, or with running?

Chris Detzel: No, no, no. Just with Dallas. Sorry, that should have been more specific.

Just with what's the biggest challenge of race? Directing in a sense, or being kind of the operations person, this guy,

Jodi Jordan: I would say no, we have such a great team that [00:17:00] I would say the biggest challenge would be the unknown. It's weather and then, and then people.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Jodi Jordan: And just. You can only anticipate so much.

Yeah. We try to an anticipate it all, but it's impossible.

Chris Detzel: What's your biggest challenge over the years? You know what, like there's gotta be like, maybe there was a big challenge four years ago and then this year it's different. It's probably every different, it's different every year, huh?

Marcus Grunewald: It's definitely different and that's why I've been working on this for so long.

It's every year I learn new things and, um. Every year there's a different challenge. Sometimes new systems are put into place, sometimes new permit requirements. The nice thing is though, when I started as a full-time paid employee in 2007, to now where we have full five full-time employees, I guess delegating.

And that's been a

Chris Detzel: challenge for you?

Marcus Grunewald: Well, it, it's because I'm used to doing things my way, on my timeline to get things done. And you worry about those things when you give 'em to another person. But I have learned a couple of things, but the most important one is you find good people. Yeah. To help out.[00:18:00]

Then you let them do the job. Yeah. The other way. And Jodi and I a couple of times have talked about things and I'm like, that's a great idea, Jodi, but why don't we implement that after I retire and it's all yours. And so, and she's been very gracious. She understands it. It is kind of hard to let go of, of some things, but you also learn.

I went to college and got a finance degree, and when I told my parents I was leaving the investment banking world to become a full-time race director, you know, they both, they both, uh, they cried and disowned me and stuff.

Chris Detzel: Oh, wow.

Marcus Grunewald: Um, but it doesn't, it doesn't take a special education to become a race director, but it takes a, a special aptitude.

That's, that's the main thing I've learned that all of the employees we have at the Dallas Marathon had this special attitude that they're willing to do anything and everything to put on a great event and, yeah. I was hired initially to become race director because even though I was a, a volunteer at the Dallas Marathon.

I was at the finish line at, at 5 30, 6 o'clock at night when it's dark. Already picking up trash.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: Even though that wasn't in my job description and I was at volunteer [00:19:00] and, and someone pointed out that to another board member, Hey, that's a race director right there by picking up trash. Well, so, uh, and that's the thing.

And so. I don't have the challenges. I used to, again, my biggest challenge is to make sure I help everyone else do their job and answer whatever questions I can. Yeah. To help them get there and basically that's it. It just sit back and have fun. Other than that,

Chris Detzel: that's pretty awesome. Yeah. You know, it's something you mentioned that is big and I, I wanted to dive more into that is kinda that community aspect, organizations maybe being part of it.

Can you dive a little bit deeper into what that means? Because I'm, I'm curious because. So, yeah. I'm just curious on kind of what that might mean.

Jodi Jordan: I think for us as an organization, we are looped in with some incredible run groups. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we are. We have that support. I'm talking neighborhoods, you know people who

Chris Detzel: got it.

That's

Jodi Jordan: right,

Chris Detzel: that's

Jodi Jordan: right. Yeah. For me, it's more neighborhoods because I do feel like we have a community relations director who's incredible, and she's boots on the ground. She's going to every run group, and she's running with the social runs, [00:20:00] and I don't know how she does it. She's pretty incredible.

And she's,

Chris Detzel: what's her name?

Jodi Jordan: Patty.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Jodi Jordan: Patty Moreno.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Jodi Jordan: And she is really building the relationships and, and, and there were. Marcus did that previously because we've had a team of five for what this is now. Year two, I made, I made the fifth, but prior to that it was, you know, Marcus building those relationships.

And, um,

Chris Detzel: so you mean like, so the 5K races that you guys, or fun runs that you're putting on is kind of what you're talking about? Right. More of that kind of stuff.

Jodi Jordan: No, I mean, I'm, I'm really, I'm really talking about neighborhoods coming out on race day and not being upset that their roads are closed.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

I see what we're getting. Yeah. I see what we're getting at now.

Marcus Grunewald: This is what's kind of interesting, the dirty side of race directing and runners. This is the inside look at what we're doing, and I had no idea until I became a race director. There are so many things that you have to get done to put on a race.

You have to. And, uh, over the years it's gotten harder and harder. The most important thing is you have to have permits through the city of Dallas. And when I first [00:21:00] started as race director in 2002, our permit was a page and a half. Our permit now is almost 30 pages. I think and the requirements, and in fact, Jodi was working at Event Southwest, that's the first thing I handed off to her over there, is you take care of the permits.

It, it, it takes weeks and weeks and, and, and several months to go through this whole process. But what you have to do, you're required to do, is you have to notify all the churches, all the businesses, all the residents along the route. You have to get them to sign off on the route. Coming by their establishment or through their neighborhoods.

And over time as they've realized that they have to do this, they become more vocal and, and of course no one wants us to come by their church or business in the busiest shopping season or church going season of the year right before Christmas. And so a lot of it is dealing with these personalities both on the city level, the business level, the residential level, as well as.

My main focus, the runner level, to make sure everyone's happy and getting along [00:22:00] nice. We like, like another requirement as a part of that process is we notify the residents along the route several times. We do a door hanger, door to door for every house along the route. We do a mailing to five different zip code areas,

Jodi Jordan: 3000.

Marcus Grunewald: 28,000 mailings that go out to notify him. We do a second special door to door notification in Paul Ridley's district that we go through at his request to remind the people that our runners will be coming through there. We do social media posts, special emails to businesses and churches. Meet meetings with homeowner associations and, and again, because of this, we realize over time it's not just the runners that we really want to make sure have a good time.

Jodi said, we want this city to embrace this. We go through some older neighborhoods. People my age are older that don't like change. They only go to church one way and one way only, or they don't go to church and the churches have made us aware of this. And so we've, there's a lot of moving parts that we have to resolve beforehand to make sure everyone is willing to allow us to have the race.

Chris Detzel: [00:23:00] Wow, that was a lot. It wasn't. It is a lot. Just one little, that's the community piece you're talking about? Yes.

Jodi Jordan: That is the community piece, and that is the year round piece. You know, people say you guys do one race a year and, and that keeps you busy and it does. I mean, this planning and preparation starts the day after essentially.

So that,

Chris Detzel: you know, it's weird is because, and, and maybe I'm overstepping, I'm not sure, but as I kind of look at sports in Dallas, period, Dallas has had not that great of a attitude, in my opinion, towards like. Whether it was Dallas Cowboys or Mavericks and Stars, and I know Stars and Mavs are right there, but.

They're about to leave, you know, in the next few years. And when you think of like, like we do have White Rock, like, which is amazing, you know, just for runners, but you know, you don't have a great kind of ecosystem for runners or even cyclists or anything else besides one part of the area. And I feel like Dallas has been really difficult, and not just, it sounds like, some opportunity here, you know, for the, maybe it's.

City or whatever. But I think overall, like [00:24:00] I was talking to Heidi several months ago in Fort Worth, embraces that marathon, man, they want this, they can't wait to have it. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, not. So I don't know how true that is, and I'm not sure how much y'all wanna say, but to me that's from outside looking in and just watching it, you know, and then listening to somebody like Heidi, it's been pretty clear to me.

Jodi Jordan: I think there, the positive is that we have the runner buy-in. Yeah. And, and most people in Dallas on this day with our numbers. The way they are. Most people know someone who is participating. Yeah, of course. In this event.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Jodi Jordan: Which, in turn is enhancing the experience for the community. We're, we are making incredible strides mm-hmm.

In making this dallas's, I mean, it is Dallas's race, but for really. This being the day when everything can shut down and everybody's happy about it because they wanna go cheer on some runners. That's my dream.

Marcus Grunewald: I wanna add there. I think the, the problem is there's always some bad apples. Sure. As a whole, the residents of Dallas and most of the [00:25:00] businesses and church love the event.

There's a couple of churches that actually move their service that morning to the evening and encourage their, their members to come out and cheer on the race. So there's a lot of people who really do love the marathon. It's just a few bad apples that that can be vocal and impede a little bit on what we're trying to do, because I just said that I do wanna make, make sure everyone aware, and this really helps us in that, in that regard, is that we've, we're a nonprofit, we benefit the Scottish Rite for Children Hospital, have been doing that for 20 years now and have given them up full 5 million.

And then just this past Friday, every year we adopt A-D-I-S-D elementary school. We just, this year it was hs. Thompson Learning Center. And part of our partnership with Feet, feet, and some other very kind sponsors, we were able to give every child in that school a brand new pair of shoes and socks to go with it.

We learned over time that some of these kids, when we'd give 'em new shoes, they didn't ha their socks were like,

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: If they had socks. And so this year we were able to add socks to the mix and all the kids got to go hung Friday after school with a [00:26:00] pair of brand new shoes and socks.

Chris Detzel: I love that.

Jodi Jordan: And then we also have a program that a lot of people may not know about.

On Saturday, when after the 5K and the 10 K, we have a 6,000.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah.

Jodi Jordan: Kid Race, 6,000 participant kid race that is free to all DISD students. They come in on buses and run the race and get to weeks, it's like a mile. It's a one mile and a two mile, and they get to cross the start, finish. They get to watch the video.

Right. It's, it's really encouraging young athletes. To experience the full thing.

Marcus Grunewald: They feel like marathoners. They get a, they get a special medal as well, and a participant shirt. That's great. It's amazing how many years later we'll hear kids who run in the marathon or the 5K one of our events and said, yeah, I got my start at the Encore Kids race and stuff.

It's a, it's a feel good thing,

Chris Detzel: you know, uh, last week or week before DRC had this half marathon race and that they do every year. I didn't run it, but, uh, surprisingly, there was several really fast people in that race. People [00:27:00] running 1 13, 1 15 like I was talking to this guy, Jose Lopez, and he ran a 1 24 and he was 20th place and for a DRC race, you know, like,

Marcus Grunewald: yeah,

Chris Detzel: it's rare.

So to see that many fast people, the point is, is like when I look at Dallas, I mean, there's always really fast people. Mm-hmm. I think, you know, I was talking to, um. Brent Wood yesterday, he just kept on running. Indianapolis, ran 2 28. He's not running Dallas, I don't think. Maybe he's doing half, I'm not sure.

But he told me to look out for a couple of people and he thinks that at in Dallas there's this guy gonna be running it. He thinks that he's gonna get under. Very low. Two twenties. Do you guys have any favorites for, you know, the marathon, half Marathon kind of thinking for the men's and women?

Marcus Grunewald: Two things.

Yes.

Chris Detzel: Is that something you're on, on the spot too much or

Marcus Grunewald: No, I mean, so our elite program, uh, we, this year we will have about 50 to 60 locally elite spread between the half and the full marathons. Really impressive list of names. And, and I think there's a couple of [00:28:00] guys that could easily go sub to 20.

Chris Detzel: Sub two 20.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: They live here in Dallas.

Marcus Grunewald: That, that live here locally. North Texas.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Oh, well I'll interview

Marcus Grunewald: them now. In addition to that the NAIA collegiate system has designated the BMW Dallas Marathon as their Marathon Challenge Championship. And so all the students at these NAI colleges and universities have to qualify to, to come run this final here in Dallas.

And they're bringing. Approximately 120 elite athletes to run. Uh, so we're gonna have

Chris Detzel: a half in full or? Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: Just the full marathon. Oh. So 120 alone in the full marathon for n ai is

Chris Detzel: this new.

Marcus Grunewald: This is brand new. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Like, I've never heard of it.

Marcus Grunewald: Well, they, they had been running at, they had been running at another, uh, fairly big marathon and they were looking for a new marathon to choose at this time of year and, uh, reached out to us and we were honored that they considered us and we've been working very closely with them.

And we're looking forward to seeing, you know, almost 200 people in our elite start as a result of that. We were, [00:29:00] we will truly have a separate elite start and then,

Chris Detzel: oh, no way.

Marcus Grunewald: Corral a, we'll have to wait a little bit before we start them, a couple of minutes before we start the corral a after that.

But again, it's because we have 200 elites this year. We need to give the, and it's a, it's a championship. It's a championship for NAIA as well as being an RRCA state championship marathon. So we wanna make sure they get out clean and, and get away for a few miles. Certainly make next, I don't

Chris Detzel: think anybody knew this.

Not many people know those.

Marcus Grunewald: So there's, there's some press releases and I'm not sure you know, just like, just like we have Patty as a community relations, we have Haley as our, uh, marketing director and she manages all of our email communications overseas. Our social posts

Chris Detzel: send an email to me. I don't know.

Marcus Grunewald: I was gonna say runners, runners are notorious for not reading their emails, and we're very conscious of that. We've learned over time, we don't mass, uh, send out emails that, that are worthless.

Jodi Jordan: Yeah, yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: But it, it's come out in press releases a couple of times. Okay. And, and we'll make people more aware of it at the expo and grace weekend.

Chris Detzel: That makes sense. And I'm Leah and I, my wife are, [00:30:00] uh, volunteering like that Friday packet pick up and I'm doing shirts or something like that, I mean, I was like, well, I'm interviewing these guys, so I should at least go,

Marcus Grunewald: I thought we owed you.

Chris Detzel: Uh, no, you don't. But, uh, well that's exciting. Wow. I'm, I'm just so impressed with that.

So, a couple things that, uh, that I'm interested in and that I told you I'd talk about is one is. Something new that you guys did this year was, uh, kind of the, you know, uh, bib transfer stuff. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of talk about it and look, I think it's, it's really good. Who wants to talk about why they did that?

Like definitely

Jodi Jordan: Marcus.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah. And this is something that, that Jodi will grow into. There's a number of things we've been considering last year, uh, we added insurance. This year we added the bib transfer, and as runners ourselves, again, we look at it from a runner. Perspective and I've paid money for races that didn't happen for one reason or another yet my situation or the race situation and been doing this for, you know, racing for, oh God, 40 plus years.

You just get used to the fact that the standard is. No refunds, no [00:31:00] deferrals, stuff like that. Yeah. Times have evolved and new systems are in place now from a software perspective that allows us to do a little bit more than what we used to. The main reason behind that was back in the olden days when you mailed in a check with a paper application, it was really hard to make a change in that.

These days with electronic registration and things, it's easier to, easier to track. The policy, industrywide, there's still no deferrals, refunds and stuff, but we're making inroads from a runner perspective. We knew this would help the runners that for whatever unfortunate reason be it in their control, out of their control, they wouldn't be able to participate.

If it's a covered medical reason or something like that. We have the race insurance at its pennies on the dollar. Uh, when you register. And then up until the end of October, we allowed transfers to other runners. And again, it's a paperwork thing. Even though it's all electronic, we've got to be aware of who transferred to who and make sure the waivers are signed and, and the communications are updated and things like that.

So it's still a process that we have to get [00:32:00] involved in and requires some time. But again, it makes for a much better runner experience through the whole process and through the race. And again, the bottom line is we want the runners after it's all said and done to say. That was a great experience, not just a great race, a great experience from the time they register until the time they register for an X Race.

Jodi Jordan: And I would say that the cutoff is important and not just, it's not a cutoff for fun. You know, we have, we have bibs that need to be ordered and we have numbers that need to be finalized. So I think it's a very generous cutoff time being the end of October, so that we have enough, we have enough time to get everything in place for race day.

Chris Detzel: Do about scam and stuff like that.

Marcus Grunewald: Ah,

Chris Detzel: like what

Marcus Grunewald: is that? Bandits. It's a shame again, we're a nonprofit. We like to donate as much money as we can to Yeah. The, the Scottish Right patrol drug. Because of the sell situation we're seeing more and more bandits for whatever reason. And it takes away from the people who paid for this experience

Chris Detzel: a hundred percent.

Marcus Grunewald: Uh, if we run outta medals or t-shirts, it's because people have been banting and, [00:33:00] um. You know, I only hope that as it gets worse that people at the start of the race speak up and we do our best, but it's kind of hard with the big crush of, of the crowd when they get in the the corrals to start.

But we really do try to check for bib. So if you're a runner, please. Morning, make sure your bib is on the outside of your clothing or have your jacket open so we can see it very easily. Uh, and there's probably someone right behind you trying to sneak in behind you. You know, it might take a little while to get into SAR Corral, but it's because we're trying, trying to ensure the experience you as a paid runner are going to have someone else takes.

Chris Detzel: I've never had problems getting a crow, like I've never that race a lot. Anyways,

Marcus Grunewald: I'm not there race morning, I'm doing

Chris Detzel: any stuff. Yeah, that's true. Maybe others have had problems with that. So over the last four years, you said you've been kind of working with, what is, what have you learned?

What, what, what is kind of the, you know, uh, and, and what's changed? You know, like, I'm sure you've got some takeaways from that.

Jodi Jordan: Tons of takeaways. There's a takeaway every day, even leading up. [00:34:00] Leading up to the event. Yeah. Um, I think I can tell you last year my biggest takeaway and my most rewarding moment was being in the tail vehicle as we were.

Tailing our final runners. And I think, you know, you've mentioned fast, fast people. There are a lot of fast people in DFWI run with them. Um, I think it's easy to lose perspective and everyone, if you haven't ever seen what happens at the end of a marathon, you should come and volunteer to be a, a finish line volunteer and see the grit that people have who are out there in the elements and does not matter.

They are gonna finish. And so. I, I think I've learned, my takeaway has been to appreciate every runner the fastest and the slowest as I've, I've seen. These people conquer 26.2 miles.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And it's, and it's funny that you say that because a lot of times, like, you know, running and running groups for me over the years, you know, I would just stick with one group.

So it was my [00:35:00] group that I ran with. Right. You know, and the re the biggest reason I started like the DFW running group, it's a Facebook group that. Brings in all I wanted to talk to all kinds of runners, right? I don't just wanna talk to fast or slow or, or just fast people that I just know. I wanna talk to everyone, you know?

And so, and that's another reason I started this podcast, one of many, but was one to get closer to the community. One to kind of start talking to people like you, but also like. This is a running community. This has turned out to be DFW in general. There's literally 50 running groups or more and some popping up all the time.

I mean, you look at like, run it up. For example, last year they started and I got to talk to Theo and Netta and you know, they've been on this podcast. It's really cool to see you know, what they're doing in the black and brown community. You know, I told them, I was like, look, I never really, you'd see, uh.

An African American come into like DRC, maybe one or two of them, and, and they're like, look. What they've started has just been amazing. Yeah. It's [00:36:00] just all I'm saying is and I've, I'm, I'm pretty excited they sit there and party and, and all that kind of stuff. And so, and what you guys are doing within, you know, the Dallas, what you've been doing for years, Marcus, you know, is bringing runners together.

But even more like, I mean, this stuff is selling out. People are excited to run the races, you know, and you can't have enough spots for all of the runners that want to run your race. That's gonna feel good.

Marcus Grunewald: Well, it feels good, but I hate having to tell a runner No, sure. I mean, we, we hear so many, so many stories about why we're, I think,

Chris Detzel: well, could you get like 60,000 if you wanted?

I mean, I don't know. Who knows the number?

Marcus Grunewald: We don't, we don't know. We dunno the number. We can, we need that

Jodi Jordan: community buy-in.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah. And going back, we're talking about, thinking about previous, we already know next year we're gonna have to change our course. There's some major road construction going on in, in Highland Park.

So we're already working on next year's route, and then we know the convention center and the new convention center. So we're looking several years down the road, even while we're focusing on getting this one done. But there's been a resurgence in running again. This is either the second or third running boom that I've seen.

And this one is really unique in [00:37:00] that the people in this boom or more in it for the fun.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, that's right.

Marcus Grunewald: When I first started running back in the, in the eighties, it was about. You know, the question was where's your finished time?

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: And that they don't ask that as much anymore now. Well, some, some do.

Maybe it's

Chris Detzel: my, you know, generation.

Marcus Grunewald: But that's, that's not the most important question. The questions you hear now at these running groups and, Hey, what do you do for a living? Are you married? Do you have kids? Yeah. You know, and stuff like that. It's not like,

Chris Detzel: it's

Marcus Grunewald: what's your favorite about

Chris Detzel: community?

Marcus Grunewald: What's your favorite running shoe? What's your pr, you know, you don't hear that as much. And so we change our focus a little bit too. Our course is what it is and it's hard to find 26.2 miles. Through some of the best neighborhoods around that can get approved and handle all this.

But we also think, okay, what's gonna, what's gonna make the runners again say, that was a great experience. What can we do to enhance that establishment of rapport with the other people? And I'd say other runners with them, but even the walkers. So now we focus, like Jodi said, and especially me at my age.

More in the middle to back of the pack. What are they experiencing? Are they getting [00:38:00] the same experiences as the people who are in their first hour of finishing? Uh, the interesting thing is in, in my years, they're staying at the finish line. I see more people breaking down, crying, happy. In the last hour, then I did the first hour, and that's, that's the big emotional thing about the marathon.

It doesn't matter how quick you are, it will change you.

Chris Detzel: I mean, I just know for every marathon I've done, I couldn't wait till it was over and I cried because it was so hard once and I was like, I don't ever do this again.

Jodi Jordan: I know.

Chris Detzel: No, but it's an amazing accomplishment that. I get that, but it's hard.

It's hard, running a marathon for anybody is hard. And, you know, if there's any, things that I would tell people is do a little bit of training, you know, and, and it's not something that you should just go out and do because you're gonna get hurt.

Marcus Grunewald: You cannot

Chris Detzel: fake it. Now, it's gonna be, it's gonna be tough.

So that's interesting that, uh, at least you're announcing it now that in a year or two that, that, yeah, the course is gonna change in some ways 'cause of construction. Because people don't like change. No, don't. I can promise you. Like, just from my experience, people are like, oh my gosh, they changed the course.

They keep changing the [00:39:00] course. And I'm like, do they maybe like, I, I don't keep up with all that,

Marcus Grunewald: Well, from a race,

Chris Detzel: a lot of people do.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah. From a race retro perspective, we don't like change either because of all the background stuff we have to do every time we make a change and getting it recertified, which costs money and, and time.

But that also kind of makes it exciting. It's a new opportunity. Yeah. And maybe, given the fact that we have to change, we can find some way to make it better as a result of that change. Sure. So that's, that's the fun part is saying Okay. One door close where's the next one that's gonna open and stop?

Chris Detzel: But at some point, so I'm gonna push back slightly. I, I don't disagree with that. I think that's a good attitude to have. But when you look at the Bostons and Chicagos and the, kind of the things that you are talking about from a community standpoint. If you wanna get these communities out and be an all hooray and everything else, you need consistency, you need focus.

How do you I understand that there's construction and stuff and at times something might slightly change and maybe that's changed for the big ones, but how do you kind of think about that, from a community standpoint? No.

Jodi Jordan: Are you pushing for community involvement?

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Jodi Jordan: And community buy-in.

I mean, that's, that's [00:40:00] really, I think that would help a lot.

Marcus Grunewald: The, the main thing is it's not only with community, but it, the residents stuff, but as a whole communication.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: And so we try to make people aware of any changes as early as possible so we can work through the issues that might come up.

And, and in fact that's having run through Highland Park for many years and having a good rapport with their, their city, they let me know as soon as they found out that it would be scheduled because they knew what it would take. Funny thing, uh, another story, uh, many years ago, I wasn't the one who did it, but someone put a mile marker in Highland Park was mile four.

Spray paint, and that's a big no-no. You don't spray paint anything in Island Park without a permit, but especially on the streets. And so I was called to go out there and take turpentine with me and, and get it off the street. And I was at this corner and there was a big mansion there. And I saw this lady looking out the window, kind of watching what I was doing.

I just kind of turned my back, kept walking away trying to get that paint off put. And she finally came out there and she goes, what are you doing? And I said, well, I'm getting, I'm taking this mark off the street. Well, why? There's, you're not supposed [00:41:00] to spray paint on the streets and someone accidentally put this mile marker here for the Dallas marathon.

Well, are they moving or something? And I said, no, ma'am, they're still coming through here, but we just can't mark the mile marker here. And she goes, oh, well thank goodness, because that's my favorite time to come out and see these things. Oh, see, I love that.

Chris Detzel: That's what you want. Stuff like that. Yeah.

Marcus Grunewald: So it, it's a matter of, for the most part.

Most people love the Dallas Marathon. Yeah, it's so fun to watch the runners go by. I mean, every, every runner is a different look, different story. So by making the community aware as a whole, when it's going to be, and any changes to the route, as soon as we can just smooths everything over.

Chris Detzel: Wow. So did I miss anything?

Marcus Grunewald: Well, a lot. Oh, but we don't have time. One thing I do wanna mention, and again, the organization that you know, this is our 54th, 55th Dallas Marathon, 54th Dallas Marathon. We've been around for a long time. When I took over as race director for my predecessor, I told the board at my first meeting, my main job is just to maintain and or enhance the reputation of the race.

Yeah. And again, it was even back then, it was [00:42:00] one of the bigger races in indoor Texas. One of the few marathons too. It, it, we've grown. We've gotten bigger people like our product. You know, that's amazing. I'm biased, but I think we put on a pretty good race. We have, we understand all the different nuances and, uh, we've had a lot of requests to do more.

We've done the fall fun runs for each BMW dealership. Six of 'em now that we just finished up. That's

Chris Detzel: right. Which I think has been great. I mean, a lot of turnout for that and people love it

Marcus Grunewald: selling those out as well. As a result of doing those for a number of years, both runners, sponsors and communities have asked us to take a look at doing another event.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Marcus Grunewald: And, um, we've looked with a de a couple different cities and, um, the announcement is coming out on Monday, the 10th in the afternoon. So this, this podcast will be after the announcement comes out, but we are doing. The McKinney historic half, uh, marathon and 5K and, uh, wow. It's going to be an event put on by the Dallas White Rock Marathon Organization, uh, just like the Dallas Marathon.

Gonna be a [00:43:00] pretty big event. We've been working with the city of McKinney for. Uh, almost, almost a full year now leading up to this announcement. It will be a, a March 28th Saturday event taking place at starting at the McKinney new City Hall building. Is

Chris Detzel: that coming This march?

Marcus Grunewald: This next March.

Chris Detzel: Oh, wow.

Marcus Grunewald: And it will finish. It will, it will finish at, starts at McKinney City Hall. Finishes at Tufts Brewery. The president of the, uh, Dallas White Rock Marathon Organization. Jason lives in McKinney now.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Marcus Grunewald: And so between him, Jodi, myself, and a few others have designed what we are really excited about. A great half marathon course that has a little bit of everything.

You, it's got the downtown McKinney area. Yeah. Historic. Go through a few neighborhoods. We go through the newer part of McKinney, the housing boom, we added in running through some of their, their parks on a trail pave trail. It's a loop course finishes at at TPPs Brewery. We've got a lot of vendors, beer and partners coming out.

There might even [00:44:00] be a special McKinney Historic Half Beer

Chris Detzel: Oh,

Marcus Grunewald: on that morning as well. Sweet. So something that we're really excited about it will be in March. So, you know, it's the time of year that that doesn't interfere with the Dallas Marathon, but it's really been fun to. Two really different events.

Even though it's a road race, different people we're working with different requirements, different scenery. But the fact that we, we finished at a brewery is something new and that's gotta

Chris Detzel: be your favorite,

Marcus Grunewald: Marcus. It'll, uh, you know, I'll work the finish line, so

Chris Detzel: just a beer after everybody comes through.

You know, one beer per person

Marcus Grunewald: will. We'll tap 'em. Yeah. So that, that's really exciting. That's something else that's awesome taking place. And, and with, with five full-time employees, it's something that we're finally able to pull off because we have the help and, and experience behind it to do this. And we're really excited about that and looking forward to the feedback.

And again, we always focus on number one, safety, but also run our feedback because as runners ourselves, we wanna put on the best race we can so that when you see us out at White Rock Lake or on the Katy Trail Trail. Cut or you might see us on the Katy Trail. We don't [00:45:00] want you to be talking bad about our events either to us or behind our back.

We wanna make sure that you come up and say, Hey, that was great. If you do have suggestions for improvements, man we are all ears. That's how the race has grown over time is by listening to mys suggestions. So we're looking forward to the future.

Chris Detzel: Wow, that's really exciting and thank you for announcing that on, you know, DFW Running Talk.

Anything else? I mean, that's a big deal and so that's really exciting. And that's actually not that long away.

Marcus Grunewald: No, not at all.

Chris Detzel: So you got Dallas Marathon coming up. Then you've got, or BMW Dallas Marathon. Mm-hmm. And then you've got this McKinney, what's it called again?

Marcus Grunewald: McKinney? Historic Half McKinney. And for people who are familiar or maybe not familiar with McKinney, it's got a, a very historic downtown Uhhuh and Town Square.

And, uh, we will take part in, in s seeing that during the race itself. Really, really nice community up there.

Chris Detzel: Any thoughts? Like how many people that you think are gonna show up or.

Marcus Grunewald: We fully anticipate a sellout, just like we did our half marathon. This year we're gonna cap it around 4,000. We're still working with a few partners as far as capacity, but probably about 4,000 between the [00:46:00] half marathon and the 5K.

We'll also have a, just like a, as we do in December, we'll have a kids a hundred meter dash. As well. So it's really Saturday family friendly, even though it finishes at TPPs. TPPs has a great family area to play and things to do for families. So, um, it's gonna be real exciting.

Chris Detzel: Well, this has been awesome, Jodi.

Thanks for coming on. Marcus. Thanks for finally coming on.

Marcus Grunewald: Yeah,

Chris Detzel: I've been asking you for one year now, and you came and I'm really happy that you guys came. Thank you for everyone for tuning into another DFW Running Talk. Please make sure to rate and review us and go to DFW running talk.substack.com and get the newsletter.

Until then, thanks everyone. Jodi. Thank you, Marcus. Thank you, Jodi.

Marcus Grunewald: Welcome aboard.

Jodi Jordan: Thank you.

Chris Detzel: I like that.