Elite Marathon Strategies: How Four Top DFW Runners Approached Boston and London 2025 under 2:38

DFW Running Talk: Boston Aftermath Fast
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] All right, welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Tetzel, and today we have some folks coming back to this episode to talk about at their Boston Marathon journey and also London Marathon Journey. So let's kick it off with Rena. Rena, how are you?

Rena: I'm doing great. Thanks Chris.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I was gonna say welcome back, but the last one, you were here for two minutes and then you left and technology issues.

But I'm glad you get to make it today. So welcome. Yeah.

Mimi Smith: Thank you.

Chris Detzel: We have Mimi Smith back. Mimi, how are you?

Mimi Smith: Good, thank you. How are you? Good.

Chris Detzel: Doing well. Aaron Pearson. Aaron, how's it going?

Aaron Pearson: Howdy, howdy. Way above average. Good. And you all did way above average. And

Chris Detzel: Jen, Jennifer, Pope. Jennifer, how are you? I.

I'm great. Most ran Boston Marathon. Jennifer Pope ran London Marathon. So we'll get into all of those things. But first I wanna talk to Aaron Pearson and ask him a little bit about kind of your Boston Marathon. How awesome you did. I was so impressed. [00:01:00] I did see you by the way there for a little bit and said hello and stuff like that.

But Aaron, how'd it go?

Aaron Pearson: It was a pr so I think that's always something to be, I think, excited about or that went well. I think I did a lot of things this training cycle that just from our last time that we spoke, gave me the confidence to do well under the circumstances. So for me, I. I felt like it was a really great race.

I felt like it was, honestly, it was a mostly solo run, even though you're doing it with 30,000 people, just for different reasons. For me, I just felt like I was running a solo race, which honestly helped me with the mental game for it. But overall I'm really happy with it. Obviously I'm hungry for more, but I am very grateful for the PR and just a good buildup and staying healthy.

Think of the course the. The course is what it is. I wish I would've went if what would you change? I would go a little bit faster than the first mile. I got stuck just behind a bunch of people and then it just threw me off a little bit. So I would've done a little bit differently the first mile.

But other [00:02:00] than that, I already knew what to expect being the third time that I've done it. And I would say that. Yeah I enjoy the course a lot, honestly. 'cause if you are very strategic with it and you don't get too happy with going too fast downhill, then it's a really fun course to enjoy towards the end.

Didn't enjoy it towards the end, not because I wasn't in I don't think the best shape. It was more so because I miscalculated on my goos and just a couple of other, self-inflicted issues, I would say. But outside of that, the courses, I really do love the course. I think it's a, it's a.

It's a fun and rewarding course if you strategically place yourself and don't get too caught up with the crowds

Chris Detzel: and, you mentioned you wanted to do under two 40 last episode, what'd you do?

Aaron Pearson: Yeah, I, my, my a goal was 2 34. 59 ran and I remember that. Yeah. Oh, my previous PR was like two 40 and some change or whatever, and I ran a 2 37, I think 13.

So good pr and good [00:03:00] pr. Yeah, so very happy with what was going on there.

Chris Detzel: That's great. Er, and we'll come back to you and Rena Elmer. So Rena, we, we never really got a chance to talk last time, so I want a little bit, I wanna know a little bit more kind of your training and how that went.

Towards Boston. And then how was your Boston

Rena: training for Boston? The first six weeks I'd say was amazing. I was just hitting record workouts. I think I had a very different last six weeks than I've ever had in any of my training ever. It was really hard. I just, there was just a lot of stress just in my personal life with my kids having so many active.

Boston is an awesome race, but the timing is really difficult when you have lots of kids in school and they have finals and break and things, championship races, and they have yeah, all their things going on. But I just stuck to my plan and I think maybe I probably needed to rest more, but I just stayed with my plan.

I expected to go in and run and feel really good. I was telling myself I was gonna feel really good, but I didn't feel so great in the run. [00:04:00] But I managed to hold pace and just, I just gutted it out the whole time. So I'm really happy about the time I ran for how I actually felt in the last six weeks of my training.

Chris Detzel: So you still trained, but you just are stressed out more so than usual. Is that right? Or?

Rena: Yeah. And that's the hard thing when you're, when you don't have a coach. I think I, I think it was definitely like over training symptoms, but I didn't realize that until it was too late. And so then I backed off a lot in the last few weeks, like the last four weeks leading up.

Okay. And if I hadn't, I think I probably wouldn't have even ran as well as I did. But no, I just, I. Loved the experience and I learned a lot from that is just if you have a lot of stress in your life and you're not getting a lot of sleep like you need to just back off.

Chris Detzel: So I love that. That's really great advice.

And you actually did that. A lot of people would just keep going, and so was that your first Boston or

Rena: Yes. Yeah, that was my first Boston.

Chris Detzel: Okay. What how'd you do? I did

Rena: amazing. So I went in rank 50th and I finished 43rd. So [00:05:00] I, wow. That was my goal, was to be top 50.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Congratulations. That's pretty awesome.

I had to

Rena: run a pr but I, and I I tried to stay positive and tell myself I was gonna run a pr. Didn't get that, but I, for how I felt, I did absolutely amazing. I'm very happy for how hard I worked.

Chris Detzel: Good. You, you ran at 2 30, 8 or seven or,

Rena: yeah, it was 2 37.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Rena: Something

Chris Detzel: That's amazing.

'cause my

Rena: fastest time ever, and it was on the Boston course and it was just, oh no. Aaron was saying, she goes again, maybe she'll come back. You're

Mimi Smith: running completely alone's it. It's good. It's good. It's good. Good.

Chris Detzel: So you ran Boston again? That not I did. That's not your first time, right? No.

Mimi Smith: My first time was in 2023 two years since I ran it last.

Chris Detzel: Smoke it. Fastest time. How'd it go?

Mimi Smith: Good. Pretty similar sentiments to everyone else. I would say. I squeaked away with a 22nd pr, so I'm not a huge pr, but I'll take it on a arguably, a more challenging [00:06:00] course. I have some opinions on that, but I think we had talked about last time on the podcast, even though you were having us on, we were talking all about times.

I had a specific time goal ish that I wanted to hit, but I really cared more about running it and racing it. Yeah. I remember, I felt like a lot of the marathons that I've done recently, I've just been running it for a time and I haven't really been focused on the actual, like intricacies and technicalities of an actual race.

And I was able to start in the pro field. Rina just talked about. And and that created an opportunity where initially I thought I was nervous that it would get strung out really quickly, and I actually was able to run with a group of probably five women for all of 18 miles, like going back and forth and racing.

So I.

Chris Detzel: How fun is that? Yeah, that is fun to watch, by the way.

Mimi Smith: It was really fun to race it. Like the miles went by really quickly. Having bottles on the course was like a game changer, nutrition wise. I dropped a few of my gels too, so if I didn't have bottles, I think I probably would've been screwed.

But. Yeah, overall I was just [00:07:00] really happy with the results. I ran 2 30, 4 0 4 and was 26 overall.

Chris Detzel: Congratulations. What was fun about that is I was sitting there in my hotel about to go to this other hotel to eat I don't know to meet my wife or at least to go cheer on at the finish line.

But I saw you in in a, on the TV with some other fast women, and it was cool because they were saying some things, the commentators and that. I took a video of it and PO posted it. I was like, oh my God. This's Mimi. So it was cool.

Mimi Smith: Yeah, and they definitely thought we were the lead pack, but how it strung out really quickly.

So for those of you who haven't run Boston, it's pretty much straight downhill. The first mile at the very end. There's a little bit of an uphill, but it's pretty much a really steep downhill. Really quickly, we split up into two groups. One with the people who were part of the, professional. The actual professional field and then a second group, and I was part of that second group.

And honestly I felt like I got in front of that group and I slowed down. And me and this one other runner who I've raced [00:08:00] against a few times named Haley Bose, we were running together and we slowed down and set the pace for that group. So it really quickly divided into, and we weren't that far off them, two miles in it was prob, it was a good enough gap where.

We were probably like 15 seconds off them and a motorcycle could come on in and I think the camera for that front group broke or something. So they were filming us and the announcers who weren't actually, who were at the finish line only saw us and they go, oh, the pros are letting the other runners take a, take the pace and relaxing.

And and no, we were not the front back. But hey, air time's, air time.

Chris Detzel: Air. Yeah, it was just, to me it was just fun to see. And that was really cool that I even got it recorded. So we'll come back to some of that. But Jennifer Pope, you ran London?

Jennifer Pope: I did. It was a great experience.

A new course, new, obviously different country, so

Chris Detzel: loved it. And again, that was your first time to run London. How did you know, what was the experience like? You get there, I'm sure you're a little tired. Did you get there a few days before? How'd that work out? [00:09:00]

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, I, I kept debating how soon I needed to get there to try to get on the right sleep schedule.

I ended up flying in on Thursday morning for the Sunday race and just doing the, trying to get sunshine in the morning, taking melatonin at night to try to get on that schedule. But I don't think that had much effect by Sunday I felt pretty good. So it was, yeah, I don't think that was too I worried about it more than I probably needed to.

Chris Detzel: I heard there, they had record number of people there. Did you feel like, was it hard to get up at that front and then, what was that crowd like? Just trying to, get started and going.

Jennifer Pope: It was very crowded. And I started really fast. I meant to start fast, but I also feel like I just got into a flow with everyone around me and they were all just cooking right out of the gates.

And of course I know I could have slowed down and made people go around me, but I just went with it and decided to hold on as long as I could. And I went in with that strategy. Interesting is hearing Aaron say he had all the confidence [00:10:00] in the world. Still did. I feel like I was just such a long time of injuries and even I could make a joke with with Rena that literally in January we ran a race together and I couldn't even run nine miles at six 15 pace.

Trying as hard as I could. And I didn't have a lot of confidence going into the race. It didn't even start to click really for me until that last month and everything was very smooth, which I guess just is great timing. But I just, went for it right from the beginning and I just felt let's see how long I can hold and what I can do.

And so that was the strategy.

Chris Detzel: And you, you ran pretty fast and you ran with the regular field, you didn't run with the elites, is that right? Or

Jennifer Pope: it's like their equivalent of a, like an a, d, P, it's their championship entry, which is it does have standards that you have to meet to, to get into it.

Yeah. You kind close to the front.

Chris Detzel: Okay. So that's gotta be helpful then to least,

Jennifer Pope: yeah.

Chris Detzel: Miss some of the crowds. I'm sure it's still really crowded, but 56,000

Jennifer Pope: people. Yeah. It'd be nothing like starting in the normal mass. It [00:11:00] would be extremely crowded. I don't think you'd even get your own pace at the beginning with, in the mass field for quite a few miles.

Chris Detzel: Crazy. And as we go around again, let's think about maybe some of the experiences. Great. You had a great race. And by the way, Jennifer, what'd you run? London. What was the time?

Jennifer Pope: It was 2 36 11. And

Chris Detzel: is that a PR for you or,

Jennifer Pope: yes, that was a PR by about 12 seconds and I've barely hung on, but we

Chris Detzel: hung on that.

That's pretty awesome. And congratulations to all of you for running really great races. This is, it's insane that this many would just go out. You have to travel for the race. You have to do, prepare. All of those things and have such great races. And so did anybody bring family, friends?

Husband, wife, what did that look like and how did that, how let's get it tore now. Any, yeah,

Rena: my sister-in-law met me out there. She stayed with me. My husband stayed home with the kids 'cause it was Easter weekend.

Chris Detzel: No, that, that one was tough.

Rena: She brought Final pm so I was like, I'm not taking that.

That's gonna make me groggy. Then [00:12:00] by two o'clock in the morning I was like, I couldn't fall asleep. I'm like, okay, I have to take that. Alright.

Chris Detzel: Bummer. Anybody else? When you think of kind of the, did you bring family, Aaron? Did you bring family, friends, anything like that?

Aaron Pearson: Yeah I try to incorporate my family into literally almost everything that I do, as much as they would like to, just to.

They share the same experiences. So I have two young daughters, one that is five and one that is one and a half. And then my wife came, my first Boston. I brought probably like 15 people. This one I brought my immediate family and then my in-laws came as well. But I think we've just been traveling a lot as a family, so it's a little bit easier to do that.

But at the same time, I brought my NormaTec, I laid on the couch. They went to go walk the Freedom Trail, and I just. Stayed there and ate a bunch of bagels and set in NormaTec until we can explore afterwards. But I think it's logistically a little bit more work, but it takes some prep time, I would say, ahead of time.

And it also takes a village, if you will. Like I said, I brought, we brought my in-laws, which [00:13:00] was extremely helpful so that my wife had some support with as she was wandering around the city and doing that. But no, I think there's, there are a few things that are better than seeing the person that you.

The people that you love and care for, like seeing you on there, it's like, all right, I did all these early mornings, all this training, all this time, and it's just for one moment. And then those are the ones that I enjoy the most is just afterwards celebrating with them and just, yeah, the joy there.

Chris Detzel: That's

Aaron Pearson: awesome.

Chris Detzel: Did did you guys like, do any of the, when you went to go get your bib, did you bring the family to get your bib, Aaron, or did it, and then did you go and look around at the shoes and other things, outside, how they have you go to these different areas and.

Just find different popups and things like that. I

Aaron Pearson: went on a business trip and I just did business, so Okay. A different kind of approach that I have than normal for this. But that's why I stay afterwards is 'cause that's for after. But I put in this much work. I'm not treating it in anything else, unfortunately, fortunately, however you look at it, it's unfortunate that I feel like the expo [00:14:00] has not lived up to what it was previously when I've gone.

So I don't know what was going on there, but definitely. But fortunately it wasn't an experience that they really missed out on. So no, I went by myself. I went there. I was basically in and out. They, corralled us in a very awkward space. I spent more time walking in that than I did anywhere else.

But after that, I rode a bike. I wasn't on my feet. I didn't, I did nothing else. No, they didn't go with me to the expo. And we really didn't do outside of going to restaurants. And even then I was like, I'm walking to here. I'm jumping on the train and just. Because you get 10,000 steps just walking through Boston regardless.

And so I'm just, yeah, but I was just treating it like I had one objective, one goal for this thing and that's it. So

Chris Detzel: yeah, we get there we get there on Friday, and then we all, we have all the way until right Monday, but we go, my wife, we go get her bib and then on that Friday we kinda walk some stuff.

And then Saturday I'll do the 5K every now and then she'll do the 5K. Sunday is her. Business day, and so I get that as well. And I [00:15:00] wanna go back Tona real quick, just to say, we were talking about your experience your sister-in-law, you took Tylenol pm wanted to get a little bit more deeper about, what was your experience like before you or when you got into Boston, when you got in, and that kind of stuff.

Rena: It was great. Getting into Boston was great. Puma sponsored me with their project three, so I got to use a lift to get down so I didn't take the train.

That was super nice. Yeah, it was. I met a lot of really great people.

Chris Detzel: Did you, when did you get in? Did you get the, did you get in like Saturday or Sunday? Oh, I

Rena: got in on oh my goodness. I feel like I'm just a stress case. I got in, the flight was delayed on Fri, I was supposed to leave Friday morning at 10:00 AM My flight got delayed until I wouldn't, I should have normally got in at 3:00 PM and my flight got delayed till I wouldn't get in until after 6:00 PM and there was a dinner I really wanted to make with a bunch of, former BYU athletes, all the Utah group that was out there trying meet up with them. Great.

Chris Detzel: When do you usually get in a race like this? And when did you get into Boston? Tell me a little bit about that experience and what you do. Are you all [00:16:00] business too?

Mimi Smith: Yeah, I agree with Aaron.

When you spend this much time and dedication to a race and you spend a lot of money to go there and you're trying to get a pr like, and I'm not saying that, there's loads of people who their goal is to enjoy the experience and they do all the things and that. Absolutely awesome. And that's why they have all the fun runs.

I had an event Friday night through the running company that I run for and represent heartbreak Running Company. And so I flew in on Friday. I actually changed my flight schedule. I was originally gonna fly in on Saturday. 'cause sometimes it's hard for me to get days off at my work if we don't have enough staffing.

But I was able to get some coverage, change my flight schedule and flew in Friday to make that event. But then after that. Everything's relatively low key. I didn't go to any of the special runs on the day before. The only thing I did was go pick up my bib at the Pro Fairmont Hotel where we got, had a technical meeting, but I had family and friends there too.

My, it was my boyfriend's first time running Boston, so we both run it together. My parents flew in from [00:17:00] Chicago. We have our best family friend's daughter lives in Boston and her fiance was running so. My parents' best friends also came in to watch, so we had a big, like team carb fest beforehand. So all the people that are, super, super close to me, my sister and her wife couldn't make it, but I can't say how lucky I am with the support that.

My parents and my sister and her wife have given me over the years running marathons, especially I don't live in Chicago where they're all at. And my parents came to every single one of my college races. They've literally seen every single one of my marathons. My sister has seen a majority of my marathons.

And I don't ask them, I say, oh, this is my plan. They're like, okay, great. We already got the hotel tickets are bought. I'm like, alright, that's great. My mom is I cannot wait until you do the international marathons. I think you should do Paris next. I'm like, okay. So yeah I'm, they're telling you your schedule.

Lucky person ever. They're so supportive.

Chris Detzel: That's really great. Now did you stay afterwards and then do anything or what?

Mimi Smith: Yeah [00:18:00] my boyfriend actually. And I stayed the whole time on the East coast. He had a family member that passed away last November and they had a celebration of life in New Jersey.

So we actually stayed in Boston an extra day. We then took the train down to New York, spent a day in New York, and then just spent time with his family in New Jersey for the rest of the week. Which was so nice. I usually return back to work a few days after and having experienced a whole week off, I'm never going back.

I'm gonna give myself the week off after every race for sure. It was really nice to have a full week off.

Chris Detzel: That's awesome. You said your boyfriend ran the marathon as well?

Mimi Smith: Yes. Yeah, it was his second marathon

Chris Detzel: And he ran Boston for the first time then.

Mimi Smith: Yep.

Chris Detzel: Wow.

Mimi Smith: Yeah, so he did. That's pretty awesome. He did really good too.

I think he got a six or seven minute pr, so yeah, he did. I love, he did great.

Chris Detzel: Welcome back Rena. Jennifer, let's talk about your experience in London. How'd that go?

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, it went really well. My, my husband comes with me and he the same as the two of them. The only downside when you're traveling internationally is you don't get to travel [00:19:00] internationally a lot.

My Thursday through Saturday was. Sitting in a hotel room and very minimal walking and not really being able to see London. And when you're in London you really wanna see it.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, of course.

Jennifer Pope: But my husband doesn't mind because he hits up every single low little dive pubs that are everywhere.

So he was having a ball. But no, I pretty much stick to the hotel outside of, I did the one Puma shakeout because they gave us some gear and stuff and then just straight to the expo, which the same as Aaron. They make those way longer than they need to be trying to weave you through everything. But I just like to get in and out and get back off my feet.

And that's pretty much, as far as. Pre-race and all that. That's pretty similar experience. But then afterwards, Scott and I we went up to Scotland and had a full five days there to enjoy. And I recommended like Mimi said, it's like the reward at the end, especially traveling internationally, but traveling anywhere.

If I'm gonna go out there, then I think of that as. Whether you did great, whether you did poorly, like you'd take the time to celebrate it. [00:20:00] Either way to reflect on it, take the week off and it just to me, I like making vacations out of a lot of my races.

Chris Detzel: I love that. And Scotland, was it windy and cold or?

Jennifer Pope: It wasn't too windy, but it was definitely colder than I thought it was gonna be. But I think that's just because. When you're running around here and you think 60 is okay and then all of a sudden when like you're walking outside all day actually feels pretty cold. Like early in the morning it is like 50 sounds amazing when you're running, but then when you're just standing there, I was like, oh, it's cold.

But it was great weather. We didn't have rain or anything like that, so it was perfect for travel.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Aaron mentioned that, don't do too much and sounds like of you really do much a few days, which, I get that. I understand. But there, what they've done in Boston and so many marathons nowadays, from what I can tell is they'll have one, one sponsor of the big kind of, what do you call it?

The go in there and one big sponsor. And. There's nothing else there, that day besides what that sponsor is giving, their shoes and their stuff. And so what these companies have to do are [00:21:00] these little popups and in Boston they do a really good job of, where it's Newberry Street or other areas to where they have these small popups for other vendors to really showcase their stuff.

And it's, it is unfortunate because, one vendor owns that area, and that's all and it's okay and then you'll see some other vendors there that are just very, you're like, okay, why is this vendor even here? So I don't know if y'all, I don't know if you got that or you don't even pay attention when you go, but I know I've been kind disappointed in some of these.

And when? When you go to these and stuff like that. So why the hotel? Go ahead.

Mimi Smith: I was just gonna say, I think like to an extent Adidas sponsors, Rina has got the shirt on. You can see Adidas sponsors the Boston Marathon, and I think like at the big conference centers, they probably pay so much money to only have their gear.

And then you've got all the local companies and all the little things that. You are just gonna, Adidas pays a lot of money to have only their gear at the conference. And then I think like [00:22:00] these majors are all gonna have these popups. But the Boston area, similar to. Washington State and Oregon are the driving stone to where all major running companies from Okay, Brooks is out west, Nike's out west, but you have Tracksmith, you have Heartbreak, you have, I think it's New Balance is based out of Boston.

I. I remember in college we had a meet down in Boston and we had a a networking event at, I think it was New Balance. So I think like they've already got all their stores out there and they've got all the big running events. And then just in general at all these major expos you're going to, this is huge money making opportunities for all of these brands and running has gotten so big.

It's interesting to see at other running, races. Where there aren't these major companies already stationed there and it's not a major I think a lot more is probably at the expos in terms of what, they're not gonna have as many popups because it's like at the expo, that's where all the main things are.

So that might be why Adidas really was the main bear in the conference space.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And look, I think all the expos are [00:23:00] starting to do it. I don't think it's just Adidas, just taking over, an expo center. I think that, you go to Chicago or New York or any of those, you see something similar, for, these one brands taking over, the expo and then, seeing kind of these mom and pop kind of brands come up, as that aren't shoe focused or, apparel focused and those things.

I.

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, go ahead. What Mimi was saying before, like there's a lot of people who go and seek out every single popup, and that's like again, it depends on what you want your experience to be. And for some people that is the experience of going to every single popup. And Ted, I laughed because I went to with someone to London, and he did no shakeups because he wanted to save his feet for walking around to get to every single popup.

He loves it. And so that's his vibe. He loves the social aspects of it. And whereas I'm like, overpriced clothes, nope. Back to the hotel room, that doesn't even appeal to me. But no that's, people love it. And that's just that they'll go and seek out different popups that are at the [00:24:00] marathon and they like walking around and doing that.

Chris Detzel: One of the brands I was impressed with was Puma. I've never seen, I didn't even know. Until I, I saw their running shoes. I was like, those are cool as hell. They look cool anyways. I've not tried 'em on, I'd have to try 'em on to say, but I was like, man, they just come on the scene all of a sudden, so I dunno if anybody knows anything about that. But, I was pretty impressed with some of these people's shoes that they were wearing. I was like, man, I might have to try me some.

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, we don't know anything about that. No, it's over now. Obviously the program is wrapped up, so it's like for the entire duration of our marathon builds, we weren't allowed to like, take any pictures or post anything about the prototype, but both re and I got to wear their prototype shoe and now that the, the training cycle and the marathon is over, lemme know, there's no benefit to me for me to say, anything good or bad about them.

But. Pure honesty. I loved them. I would absolutely get them. Again, I thought they were very much the equivalent of, I was only wearing the alpha flies before, and so they blew [00:25:00] me away, quite honestly, and I'll probably purchase them in the future without a, a discount or anything. So I thought they were great.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty awesome. Rena. What'd you think?

Rena: I liked them. I do not like the alpha flies as much as I thought I would. They're like, I'm more of a high cadence runner. So lots of little short steps. But yeah, the Pumas were great. I didn't notice anything. So that's a good thing.

Chris Detzel: Aaron, so one of the things that you mentioned was, like during the race you missed it on nutrition or whatever. What happened? I'm a little curious.

Aaron Pearson: Yeah. Think through. I thought through everything and, but there's always just something learn from mistakes. But, so I learned from my first Boston that I can't really digest goo that well. And I think since then I've had a little PTSD from that.

So I've always taken glue goo, like chomps or blocks or something to that effect. And the packages that, that you. By there, they're different than an actual goose. So most goos are a hundred calories, sometimes they're 110 or so, and a package of goo is basically one 60, so it's [00:26:00] like. Or goo chomps or whatever are basically one 60.

So instead of hitting 200 calories per package and thinking it's two goos, it was actually a little bit less than that. It's one and a half or so. So I lost a goo probably by mile four. And then I also miscalculated. So I was taking a goo, what I thought was a goo was actually like 75% of one or close to that rather every.

I would say four miles and got behind on those. So I finished the race. I took five packages total, so it would've been, I had one I had some extras just in case I did drop one planned for that, but dropped one and then I finished the race with I. Two, and I think almost two and a half packages, so not very smart there.

But also to me it was like a confidence boost. Dang, this sucks. Like in the sense that like I have so much salt on me, and so you can just tell that this person did not plan accordingly to follow the nutrition standard for what their body should be doing. And if I would have [00:27:00] ran any slower, I think that would've just absolutely destroyed me.

But yeah, it just miscalculated and was thinking about a bunch of other stuff during the race and just focusing on the race that I was in, and I didn't realize at the time, I'm like, oh, dang. I think I realized that honestly at mile 20 or 22. And then I thought it was actually only a go or so behind.

So I was like, no problem. That was not the case. And so then I finished and found out in my pockets that in my left side I actually had more. Anyway it just honestly gave me the confidence to, if I do like to Mimi's point, I think a little bit more favorable of a race, good weather, and, good nutrition, I'm very confident that I can go faster and that's always, the goal.

But yeah, it makes for a better story is telling that to, to. Jennifer yesterday, 'cause she said something about having a boring run on Strava is like life with boring stories are no fun, right? Like the best times in life are from the craziness that happens, the better story. So had everything went perfectly and I just ran slower.

Then that's just a really boring [00:28:00] podcast. But you got a guy who's been running for your long time and still doesn't know how to figure out his dang nutrition and, that's just normal life. I

Chris Detzel: think the

Aaron Pearson: beauty about

Chris Detzel: just being human, is we all forget things or don't, you're running so hard that you, you can't think of everything, you're trying to figure out, how am I gonna run this race? And then all of a sudden, you think you're out of goose and whatever. Just can't think straight whenever you're, like that sometimes.

I'm curious, Reno, whenever you're running and. I want y'all to think about this because I'm always interested, when you're running and you're near somebody and keeping the pace, or I guess the question here is, when you were running, did you find somebody to latch onto?

Do you think about that or do you just run your own race and you don't worry about anything else? 'cause for me. Know, I look at somebody, I'm like, okay, I wanna pass them, or I wanna stay with them, or it's good pace. It's I don't know. What do you, what's your thinking around that?

Rena: I love running with other people.

So even at the start, I was like, okay, Mimi, we're gonna stay together this first little bit. Okay, deal done. That didn't happen. But I [00:29:00] was so surprised that there was nobody to run within this race. Everybody took off. I stuck to my plan. I was gonna do six minute pace, the first little bit, and then try to pick it up.

After that, there was no one the entire race. And then by mile 15, then the guy started passing me and I'm, and maybe it was Aaron passing me. 'cause I was like, I could tell that guy's been getting a lot of salt in him. Just kidding.

Oh. But it was, if there's didn't run. What's that? Yeah. If there's the race, you gotta run by yourself. Go. That is the race to run because there are people screaming at you the entire time. It was amazing.

Chris Detzel: That's awesome. I love that. Jennifer, how do you think about that? Whenever you're in Boston, you're trying to go for pr, what's your thinking around that and what do you do?

Jennifer Pope: It's worth running with people. I prefer to run with a crowd, with the group to latch on and. London was the absolute rowdiest that I've ever run. A marathon. I'd say it's, it blew away every other marathon I've [00:30:00] ever done. Now I, I keep telling these guys I have to go back and do like Boston, 'cause I did it during the covid year and then Chicago, I was injured.

So it wasn't quite the same mindset. But London just. Absolutely blew me away. Through mile, like it was like 18. I was out there pumping up the crowd, throwing my hands in the air and he just it makes you go a little bit, maybe too fast. But I was just absolutely loving and truly enjoying the experience the entire time.

There was no shortage. I didn't run with anyone else like pace to pace. Throughout the race, I was pretty much solo doing my own pacing, but it was so crowded that if you wanted to latch on or you wanted to just group up, you could. I didn't really group like I normally would. A lot of times packs form naturally.

So I felt like I was doing pretty much my own pace. But but it was a. It worked out well.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. You're probably passing people, or some people are passing you all throughout, and it just, but, and maybe you mentioned that, you kinda latched on in the beginning to some women and there was some racing going on.

Did that happen [00:31:00] kinda. Throughout the whole entire race or what did that look like?

Mimi Smith: It was up until mile 18. So like I had said earlier, there was a pretty significant separation between a lead group and a FA and a chase pack. And I was leading that chase pack with. Another girl. We like I said, linked up together beforehand.

I've run, I've run many, or not many, three marathons outta my six, so I guess I would say many with her. We pace each other back in Chicago to get the OTQ, so I know her style of running, like I, I know we're very similar runners. And then probably by mile three it ended up being just a pack of five of us and I was with those group of girls up until mile 18.

A couple people caught us and then you either went with those people or you didn't. But even that group, it like spread out, but to have 18 miles worth of running with people, we're all like pretty respectful of making sure we got out of each other's way to get water. I would go back or I would speed up to make sure if I wanted to get water, I was getting water [00:32:00] a lot more at the stations, I would say, than other people.

But I also only had six bottles out there versus eight calculation error on my part. Read the instructions, but it was really nice to have those people. 'cause even though we were like racing, we were also really respectful what was going on and we're trying to lean on each other to set the pace. Like I felt like at some points I was leading at some points, I was in the back.

At some points we were like four across. It just depend on the race and everything, and there was no one around us at all. So it's not like we had the whole entire road. So it, I usually would say I like to run, quote unquote solo, like my own pacing, because I like to dictate my pace. I don't wanna be going a pace that I'm not set for and then crash and burn later because I try to keep up with people.

But honestly, this race I. I think re it changed the way I need to think about running these marathons, especially at the level that I think we all want to run them. You have to compete and the competition of focusing on that versus being such a stickler to the pace actually I think helps you feel better in the long run, even though it can [00:33:00] be a little face at times.

Chris Detzel: Do you think and whoever wants to answer that. Do you think the view of, like Mimi mentioned this is, there's a difference between going between times, right? I want to hit, two third, I dunno, whatever it is. We always wanna try to get better in our times, but, and in racing, because like when I look at the Boston Marathon for example, for the most part.

Elites, aren't necessarily going for, they're going for sometimes, but they're not gonna beat the world record. They're not even getting close to that, so they're just racing. It's a race to win rather than a race to get a time, and how do y'all think about that? During your, it sounds like Mimi, you went for a race this time, and I don't know if that's true, but how about the other three? And you can answer this too maybe in a minute, how do you look at that this time? For example, I know that you're looking to get a pr, do you think of that in a different way or is it to say, look, I'm just looking for this time and I just wanna hit that?

What's the

Aaron Pearson: Yeah, I think it's one, it's a good question and I would say that it's been a nuance for me as well, which [00:34:00] is I, yes, I would like to get a certain time, but in the back of my mind that I would rather have a place than I would a time. I'm just. At the end of the day, I do a lot of the stuff that I do and for better or for worse, I'm an extremely competitive person in pretty much everything that I do.

And I can see how about none of you're that

Chris Detzel: competitive,

Aaron Pearson: So I think it falls into that, but I. I agree with that and just picking up on from what Mimi had said, and Arena has mentioned too, right? They were a certain place within Boston and I think, I never really thought about that, but Eric, who's not on the podcast at the time, and we were talking about Cowtown and we were just mentioning like there's a difference between Yeah, just running a race and going for a time and then actually racing it.

And I think there's just been a shift in my mind too, of, yeah, I wanna hit a pace, but. It's more so at that pace, I think that I can push myself to a level where I end up racing. And I played a lot of other sports, honestly. Running was like a, an ancillary secondary thing for a while. And then I think a God-given talent pushed me to try a little bit harder, but there's a difference [00:35:00] between trying not to lose and playing to win.

And I think that's a shift that I've had recently as well. And just Mimi like I said, underlines that, which is, time and everything is there is good, but also sometimes you have to just throw your thinking out of your, you gotta take that front, like frontal cortex of your brain or that lizard brain out and just push it aside and push yourself to the next level to see what you're capable of.

And so I. That's something I've been a mantra I've been trying to talk to myself through as well, just honestly is very good timing to mention that, but I agree wholeheartedly with that approach. I love that. Rena, what do you think? Yeah, Boston, for

Rena: me, the whole first 18 miles, I just told myself, okay, you are.

Just gonna hold back these first 18 miles. Just wait till after Heartbreak Hill. And I just kept waiting for it and wait, okay, where's Heartbreak Hill? When's it coming? And then I can give everything I have. And that's how it was. Yeah, it was, it played out really well. I ran very pretty even splits.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I think that's pretty impressive. And Jennifer, any thoughts around that?

Jennifer Pope: It's hard to never [00:36:00] go I think I echo both Mimi and Aaron and all of them. But it's also really hard not to automatically have a time goal in your mind. I think they said you still have a goal. When I look at these big races, I just never know how competitive it's going to be.

And when you enter, the London Marathon to think, I'm not really racing for a place because I have no idea what to even expect, or what would I be top 15? Would I be top 20? Like I had no idea. And when you're in the race. Because you start with this mass of people, it's really hard to even know if I am where we are because it's just so crowded everywhere.

And so I think for me, it's hard not to have an actual time goal going in. But I also think that being able to finish strong and being able to take your nutrition and those are all just different types of goals that aren't related to necessarily a time, but it still gets you there and you still makes you feel more confident for the next race.

And you play these little tweaks of you know what works and that way. The next time you can add that [00:37:00] into whatever goal you have. And so it plays with one another.

Chris Detzel: I feel like all four of you at any given time, depending on the race, could win a race. Whether it's half marathon full.

Now if it's in Boston or some big major or whatever, it's gonna be a little bit harder to win. And there could be, like if you go to Dallas Marathon or depending on who shows up all four of you would have a chance to win it, whether it's women's or men's or the whole thing.

Rena: Jennifer just did Cowtown.

Wasn't that you, Jennifer?

Jennifer Pope: I did, yeah, actually, yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say I've done Dallas now three years in a row, but someone keeps beating me every year,

Chris Detzel: so I'm just saying it's just, and then maybe some of those races are like, okay, I'm gonna race that NEC necessarily for time, but just to win it or whatever.

It's because are they really even PR courses? Some of 'em, to me cow town's a really difficult course. And and I don't know how people pr it, they do, but it's, it seems like it's a lot harder to do that. So rather than trying to pr something like that, it's can I win this thing?

Jennifer Pope: Yeah. [00:38:00] I think you bring up a Go ahead. Oh, you go Jen, you go. No, I just say I think with a lot of the, it's nice and a little bit more convenient when if you get into, I think, very privileged to be able to be into some of the elite fields of some of these races because they send out the, who's gonna be racing with you.

And if there are people from DFW, okay, here's their prs, here's what they can do. And that's why I was just joking about Dallas is because Mimi and I. We run it every year. It's so convenient. We love running Dallas, I know Mamie's gonna be number one or be up there every year.

And so it's just you base it off of that sometimes. And even Cowtown, every single year they tend to have this pack from grand Prairie. It's this group of Kenyan ladies who show up and they tend to win every year. And this year they didn't show up. I don't know why, but, thankful for I got a win, but you just.

Kind of, sometimes you do it, but you just look who's gonna be there and you're kind like, okay, let's, maybe it's have a to win.

Mimi Smith: Yeah. And I was gonna say like again to. So both Jen and your point Chris, about unpredictability? I [00:39:00] think for the listener, if it's some of the people we train for that listener, hopefully there's some people that we don't know that are listening as well.

I would, I take the approach of I come from a background of cross country and track in high school and college and Rena obviously, she competed intensely at BYU as well. Haven't touched on that yet, but she was pretty, she still is baller but pretty baller back in her day, we come from a background where.

Time did not matter in cross country at all. Like I don't even know what my PR is in cross country because you're running on golf courses. The next day you're running on these major hills. It's storming, it's muddy, it's over grass. If you're in the south, the grass is like long. It's just all over the place.

So you don't care what your time is at all. You're just running in competing, and that's how you get points for your team and that's all that matters, is the next person. If you're in first or if you're in 100th place, every point matters. So versus the track, you can get a hundredth place, but get a major pr.

And other than crazy weather, it pretty much can be the same every single time. So when you're [00:40:00] looking at these road races or these marathon races, it absolutely depends on the condition and the type of course, right? Boston is a hilly course, but to be honest, it's mostly downhill and that's what makes it hard.

People don't wanna recognize that it's not the uphills, it's the downhills that really make this. Course challenging in the later miles, but you've got some like flat courses like Chicago, CIM is rolling but fairly flat. So it just depends. So I think about when you're thinking about your time and everything, it's hard sometimes to compare course to course.

So when we talk about racing, it's not always racing, like to get a certain, like number one, but it's racing the people around you and not giving up and using that as a way, so like regardless if you're literally 20,000. Place at one of these major marathons, you're still out there racing. 'cause sometimes a time might be out the window.

That doesn't mean that you had an excellent race 'cause it could be 70 degrees raining and really humid. That's what I think is the most important part about these racing. It's when [00:41:00] it gets challenging, are you able to use the people around you and use that to your advantage when the clock's not looking as great as you want it to?

For split?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I think we get so hung up on times and I. It's for good reason. It keeps us competitive, it keeps us focused. I'm not saying it's bad to focus a little bit on times, but sometimes you just wanna focus on that race. And you're right. I ran cross country back in the day in the high school and not college, one time, at one cross country meet is gonna be different than the other one.

I mean by minute or two maybe, it depends on kinda the course. Who knows? It does depend on that, on, some of the courses that you run in marathons for sure. Especially downhill versus up and all that kind of stuff. It's great points. Is there one thing that, going into the marathons that you guys did that you were like, I cannot forget to do this thing.

When you think of, whether it's, nutrition, Erin you knew you could forget that apparently, but Rena, anything that you can think about, is one specific thing that you. No, you gotta do Okay.

Rena: I will tell you the one specific thing for this marathon, because you guys will probably all have similar things [00:42:00] to say.

This is starkly different, mainly because I'm aging and so this marathon, I said, I cannot forget. I have compression leggings that go all the way up to my thigh for the travel, for the. Plane trip. And I noticed that because I've had, I've had seven babies and so I have varicose veins and they swell.

And so that was the one thing I was like, I cannot forget to wear those, or I'm gonna be, my legs are gonna just be heavy. And I wore 'em, my sister-in-law, she met me out there. She said that next morning, she's my legs are so swollen. And she's I walked around so much and in my head I'm like, oh, I'm so glad.

I wore those that helped so much.

Chris Detzel: That's great. Reina, I thought you were, 40 or how old are you?

Rena: Yeah, I'm 42.

Chris Detzel: Okay. All right. Wow. That, you're 42 and you're running at this level. That's pretty freaking amazing.

Rena: Thank you. And you just told me you had so many kids,

Chris Detzel: so even more amazing.

Wow. Oh, I've gotta [00:43:00] talk to you more. Anything else anybody wants to bring up that, that they just must have, during a race or during, before the marathon? I don't know. Is there anything there? I think nothing really that just comes to mind.

Aaron Pearson: I think, yeah, not to go off of the beaten path here.

I think for me is two things are just the mantra that I can just continue to say in my head, which sounds very corny, but also just the reminder to have fun 'cause to Rina's point I, and I thought she was gonna go there. So I will only say it because I thought that's where she was, is that it is a very limited time.

We talked about this lab pod last podcast. Jennifer mentioned something earlier and I hope it is true for a very long time, but she's like, Mimi's always at the, Mimi's gonna be at the top of this race and like in 30 years. 40 years. Hopefully Mimi still is at the top of the race, but we're not granted, or we're not given, guaranteed, if you will, the opportunity to be up there.

And there's gonna be new people that replace and and there's always different packs of, people who have come before us and people will come after us. So it's just live remembering to live in the actual moment and just have [00:44:00] fun. I actually did have fun in Boston. There were parts of it where absolutely was not fun, but I embraced the suck, if you will.

But the mantra I told myself, which is like I said, is very corny, is that this pain is absolutely temporary and the glory from the finishing this, or whatever it is that I deem in my head, I is forever at that point. So no matter what in Boston 2025, I ran a 2 37, 13, that the, there's no etching that out no matter how much the pain was at that point.

So I think it's, for me, it's a reminder that we do all of this work to actually enjoy it and have fun and I. Push yourself. That's the, that's why I do this. And it is shorted, it's a very short time period if you think about it on that we get to do this. Yeah. I think that that's very

Chris Detzel: well said.

And as you embrace that race and enjoy it in a lot of ways, you got, also think about the community that you're running with, the people that you're doing it with, that comes and goes. I've been doing this for a long time, and the people that you think that you're so good of friends with and not, friendships can [00:45:00] stay for a long time, but that moment and when you're running with your group, even before the race, the, those miles that you're putting in, cherish that because.

The reality is people move on with their lives. They have kids, they move, they, stop running or whatever, I don't know, whatever. They get injured and there's a lot of things that happen in life, and so I. The moment you've been running with your friends and enjoying those miles and those hardcore, like you guys said, 80 to 120 miles, whatever you do, enjoy that.

And then, you get that race, give it all you can and enjoy that moment. 'cause the other thing is, as you age, I'm 50 years old now, right? And I'm not as fast as I was when I was 40. Like I could say, man, I'm feeling good. I'm gonna go do this race. I've done this race five times.

I'm gonna get a pr. I'll run five minutes slower and I'm like, oh my God. Like how did that even happen? This was my best race. I know it was, I just can't run that much that fast any anymore. I just can't, there comes a time where that happens unless at fifties years old, you just started [00:46:00] running.

You're gonna have all kinds of prs and so you know, the moment is today you're young, right? And you have that ability. It will, that's why I'm now like. I'm 50 and so I just hope I can win my age group. Now I'm close almost every single time, depending on the race to win my age group. That's what I win.

I'm not gonna win masters 'cause they're 40 year olds gonna kick my ass. That's just the way it is, and I love that Aaron, like you get me pumped up by saying that because I've lived it already and I know all of what you're saying is 1000% true. So thank you for saying that. You got me all fired up there.

Well spoken. Yeah, it was Aaron. Anybody else on that? No. What are y'all looking what are y'all looking to do? I like, I know that talking to Mimi and Jennifer and I don't remember what Aaron said last time, the summer is all about the short and just, fast stuff, five Ks maybe and things like that.

But, any kind of thinking about what's next. Let's go to Arena. Just make sure her stuff works, get her,

Rena: if all goes well I would like to train for the Olympic trials 2028. [00:47:00]

Chris Detzel: Oh yeah. That's in that's in a couple

Rena: years, but also I'm, right now I'm taking a nice break and just enjoying my family and then I'll, and then I'll try to get back into shape and qualify next year or the year after.

Chris Detzel: What does your summer look like right now? Are you gonna do five Ks or anything like that? Or is it just complete break and then just

Rena: right now? Yeah. Right now I'm just taking a complete break. I'm actually d I'm putting in a, it just escaped me. I'm working in the yard doing lots of yard.

I love it. Yeah,

Chris Detzel: Amy,

Mimi Smith: I probably, same with arena trials. Window opens 2026. It may open a little bit earlier. But it's gonna be at the end of this year. They're gonna announce soon whether they're going to do another time cut or not. So I have some travel plans, some weddings, so I'm just not, I'm teaching a class.

I'm taking a co on a couple of job opportunities. So I'm just. Not doing any more marathons this year. I'd rather just build up my base and just get my mileage up, work on some speed stuff, and [00:48:00] have a really good fall cycle training to hopefully do a marathon in early June. So maybe Houston, but we'll see.

January you mean? Sorry? Yeah, I said June. Yep. January. Okay. Yep.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. I was like June. That's like coming up. Yeah. That's great. Are you, I assume you'll do some Hals and. Things like that. Five Ks or throughout?

Mimi Smith: Yeah. Yeah. There's some local ones I'll probably do. I don't know about traveling for any.

I've got three weddings, a bachelor weekend, sister's 30th. I got a lot of trips I don't know if I'm gonna travel anymore for any other races, so I'll do the ones locally that are available.

Aaron Pearson: Cool. How about you, Aaron? Yeah, I think it's a, yeah, more of a summer of speed. I would like to get some more sleep.

Try to make that a not priority. Say that as I woke up at four 15 this morning, but old habits, diehard, they say no, but I would like to work on speed, strength. And yeah, we'd like to do a potentially fall race. But yeah, I have a lot of stuff coming up with family and just, I like to spend the summers traveling, so I'll be spending a lot of time on that, not feeling a little bit [00:49:00] more guilt free that I don't have to, I don't ha, it's not that I don't have to, I would like to run on vacation, but I don't have to do a certain time or a certain pace or a certain thing.

Uhhuh, I can just. Do it because I love being out on the, in the sun, on the beach. And I've gotten in my workout and I feel good, but not because I'm in the middle of a training cycle. So a lot more speed. I would like to do a lot more, like I said lifting and just continue with that. Boston was nice because I got back into that habit and I have enjoyed that and I just wanna continua continuation with that of that.

But could be talking into a fall marathon, we will see. But as of right now, it's really just summer of strength and. Enjoying miles, smiling with some friends.

Chris Detzel: And I love that you brought in the strength stuff. 'cause a lot of us runners are a big proponent of just running and not doing the core and strength and all of that kind of stuff 'cause we're spending so much time running, so it's hard to get that other stuff in.

But I think especially as you age, you can't, I think it's probably true no matter how young you are, but. Certainly when you [00:50:00] age, it's getting that stuff in is highly important because you fill it in your bones. I do I've never felt it the last year or two than I do now. Like it's ridiculous.

So you have to do that. How about you, Jennifer? I saw you by the way, so not too long ago, that qualification time was 2 45 and it went down to 2 35 for women. That was two to four. Oh yeah. Yeah, even

Mimi Smith: four, and then it went down to 2 37.

Chris Detzel: Oh, okay. 2 37. So now it's a 2 37. And Mimi, you mentioned that there's a possibility for it to go down even more.

Is that right?

Mimi Smith: Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a possibility of having an A, B, and C group. Yeah, there used to be an A and B, they cut it just down to A, so I don't know why they would bring B and C back. They might cut it down. Just make the a harder, there's just a lot of talks. I think financially wise for the Olympic committee.

They're trying to figure out what's. Beneficial for them. A lot of people argue, do we even need a Olympic trial qualify for the marathon, because other countries don't do it like that. But I think it gives a lot of [00:51:00] people a really great opportunity to run in a really competitive race so that it would be a shame, but it's.

What is best for that business? So we'll see.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. When they cut it from 2 44 to 2 37, I thought, man, that's a huge cut. I think, the thought was there's just so many women that got so much faster over the last years that it's like you can't let everybody in, yeah. Look what happened.

I think you're right. I think Super Shoes has helped a ton. There's no doubt. With both recovery with less injuries, and obviously they're just. It's there to help you run really fast, so it's a good point. Rena, did I miss anything that you just wish we would've covered and we should have covered? Wow. Let me just say this.

Just wow, all four of you are amazing, and super fast, super great. And you're dedicated to your craft and it's very, to me it's, I respect that a lot. The reason I do this podcast is I get to talk to people like you and the dedication that you put into the craft, and I think it's important.

And look like Mimi said, it is not always about the speed. To me, running is [00:52:00] about a quality of life. It helps me to have an amazing quality of life and really gets get to go to London and get to go to Germany, get to go. I get to go all over the world, mostly because of my wife runs all these marathons, right?

But. You are bringing people along with you to, your family gets to come along sometimes, to some of these really fun places and cool places because of what you're doing. So I respect that a lot. And I wanna thank you again for coming onto this podcast. But thank you for putting all the work in and the time and the effort because what you're doing to me is extremely important.

So thank y'all very much for coming on. Thank you everyone for tuning in to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Zel. Don't forget to rate and review us. So important and we have lots of other things. You look in the show notes. So thank you everyone for coming in again.