Finding Your Pack: How Eric Bretl Went from Solo Runner to Sub-2:36 Marathoner

DFW Running Talk: Eric Bretl
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

All right. Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel and today's special guest is Eric Brittle. Eric, how's it going?

Eric Bretl: Good. Going good. Thanks for having me, Chris.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it's a take two, but so a little story you is on the pre-show ish. We tell it again is, so I knew Eric from the past.

He was on one of the podcasts and was on. Panel, but I wanted to get your story your journey because I hear it's really good and I've known you for a little while, but you came to this mile, like 1776 mile back in July that you were in and did really well and I was doing quick hit interviews and I was asking your name.

You had this beard now and mustache before, or you had it then, but then. In July. You shaved it all off and just had a mustache and I was like, who's this guy? Like you go, yeah, it's Eric Petto, and I was like, oh yeah, okay. You completely different.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. The mustache, it was here up [00:01:00] until through CIM.

Actually, the race that we just. Remember I shaved in summer because it gets hot here in Texas, so didn't wanna have the full beard trying out the mustache. And thankfully the wife didn't mind it either. So I was there to stay for the summer, but now that it's winter getting colder, the beard's coming back.

Chris Detzel: All right that's good. And one of the things I heard about you in the past was that you're just there for everyone. And I think I heard a story one time where, I dunno if it's Maddie or. Jennifer, who knows, either got hurt or something happened and you just came and drove over there.

Got em. And like you're the hero of the group. I dunno if that's true, but

Eric Bretl: know what story you're talking about. I think that might have been Tracy. A Tracy duty.

Chris Detzel: Oh, Tracy.

Eric Bretl: It might have happened a couple times actually, but I was actually injured at that point too, but I was rollerblading with them while they were on the long run.

And Tracy, something happened with her hip, I think, which actually I think is one of the last runs that we had with her. So that's a, that's unfortunate. But yeah, I just rollerbladed back quick to the car, went to go pick her up. And yeah, I think that's a nice theme, of what I like to do in running is just [00:02:00] just run with the group. If the group's doing something, I'll do that with them. I'd rather not train solo and to be honest, if I was solo, I would definitely not be training as harder or as far as I do right now. And that's the beginning of my story actually, is I. I used to run 15, 20 ish miles a week, probably back in 20 18, 20 19.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Eric Bretl: First half marathon I signed up for was the Dallas app in 2019. Had never done it before. Had the ambitious goal of breaking an hour and 30 minutes, and I was running pretty ambitious. 20 to 25 miles a week thinking I was training super hard. I would think like at that point I was like, I'm training harder than most people out here.

Little did I know harder but at that time I was doing tempo runs and long runs. My long runs were 10 miles, which at this point, just a drop in the bucket. But at that point was super far. And then I ran the Dallas half and I ran a 1 34. And immediately got humbled by the distance. So it didn't hit my goal.

And I, but

Chris Detzel: that's pretty good for your first half.

Eric Bretl: When you

Chris Detzel: put it in

Eric Bretl: perspective. Yeah, it was pretty good. But when I like, I thought I had it in the bag [00:03:00] based on some tempos I was doing. I just didn't have the mileage. In hindsight, yeah. I thought I had it in the bag, and when I didn't do it, I was like, man, I just trained so hard and I would get my goal.

I like running is so hard and on my bay, if I keep training for five more years, maybe I'll break one 30. But that was a pretty, yeah, I was that was me training solo thinking I was the hardest worker in the room when that definitely was not the case.

Chris Detzel: What did you know? A lot of people think the same things, right?

Like they think they're training hard and they don't know sometimes what it's like. They go run a marathon. I talked to this guy once. He ran a marathon without hardly any training. And I'm like that's just dumb.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. You learn really quickly what's needed to succeed.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And that, I think that kind of what you brought up is running with a community. You really start learning a lot, I think. Did you run with anybody at, you said solo, did you? You didn't run it with anybody, you just decided to do it.

Eric Bretl: Yes. Most of that was solo and that kind of is a segue to my whole running career after that.

So I ran the Dallas

Chris Detzel: before. Before we do that, did you do anything in high school, college, did any kind of sports or [00:04:00] running anything like that?

Eric Bretl: Yeah, that's a whole nother background too. But high school, I did do cross country, so I do have a little. Running background, but I was never like a hard worker and I would run during the 12 week season and then during the off season I wouldn't run anymore.

So I did

Chris Detzel: something,

Eric Bretl: a very mediocre high school runner. But I did have the background. We had good coaches and we had good teammates and all that stuff. We were really good team. I was just middle of the pack, very mediocre, but it did gimme a background for that. And then I went to college, it stopped running.

I didn't really enjoy it that much. And started getting into lifting more. So I spent all of. Lifting instead of running.

Chris Detzel: That's

Eric Bretl: right. Got a little bit too too into lifting where I got a little bit overweight and I wa I was like 225 pounds, but I was really strong, but I didn't look it, I was very thick and kinda a little, I had a little bit of fluff on me.

So then you're

Chris Detzel: probably just lifting weights and doing no cardio.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, exactly. I'm lifting weights and I'm looking at a, the back of a nutrition label of a Jack's pizza and seeing that it's got 90 grams of protein. I didn't know anything about fats and carbs at that point, so I [00:05:00] was like, oh yeah, protein, I'll just do that.

So similar to how I said I'm a worker in the room running 20 miles a week. I also thought that it was just, that's just the way my body is. I just eat enough protein and I work out a lot, and I just am a thicker guy, just a little bit fluffier. That's just kinda how I'm made and I can't really change that.

Chris Detzel: You're not thick at all. Like now,

Eric Bretl: yeah, now I'm probably 180 pounds right now versus the 2 25. I was before a little bit on the heavier side, still for a runner, but yeah, definitely not a chunkier dude.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, you don't look, you're just tall,

Eric Bretl: yeah.

Ex I think I fit I fit what my body should be.

Now. There was a point where before I got into running, I was pretty, or I got into once I started learning how to lose weight and learning about calories, I like went. Way too heavy into that and started just eating chicken and veggies and I It sounds

Chris Detzel: like you're an overachiever in whatever it's,

Eric Bretl: yeah.

Once I learn how to do something and once I know something works, then I'm like, oh, it works. Why would I not do that?

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Eric Bretl: So then I went too far into that and I got down to 165 pounds trying to maintain strength, but that. But now [00:06:00] we're at a great equilibrium where I eat more freely, I run more, I lift more.

So we're, after 10 years of doing all these trial and errors, I've figured out what my body's happy with.

Chris Detzel: Takes time, man. It's good that you kinda, kinda did that. Alright, so did you, where'd you go to college? Did you go to college?

Eric Bretl: It's a small school in Wisconsin for college. Yeah, actually.

I was thinking about running there just because it was a smaller school and it was a no cut team, like it, just like a community thing.

Chris Detzel: Uhhuh,

Eric Bretl: But I had run cross country in the fall and then not run for eight months, so then going to try and join. I was way outta my league, way outta my element.

I was like, eh, this isn't enjoyable. And that's kinda when I started lifting was after I decided, yeah, we're not gonna do this college running thing, just kinda started a lifting and I, I actually loved lifting, so I still do it to this day. Try and maintain as much strength as possible while running, which it counteractive workings, but it's okay.

Chris Detzel: I think it's, I think any kind of weightlifting and stuff like that is, is gonna help you in a big way in your

Eric Bretl: body. Yeah, [00:07:00] for sure. It's a, yeah, the work ethic type of thing. But yeah. Yeah. So lifting is still a big part of what I do now. Still like upper body stuff, which has nothing to do with running.

Chris Detzel: Right.

Eric Bretl: But I enjoy it.

Chris Detzel: You, you swing your arms a lot,

Eric Bretl: yeah. Yeah. There you go.

Chris Detzel: Maybe that helps.

Eric Bretl: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: It's not bad to have a core, a nice core. All right, so you decide what made you decide to run a half marathon and train for it? For that first one,

Eric Bretl: the Dallas half I actually think I would attribute that to one of my buddies that lived in Sheboygan, Wisconsin.

I was living back there. He had recently started running and he had ran a marathon, and I don't even remember what the finish time was, but I know it was a, like seven 40 something per mile, seven 30 something per mile. And at that time I was running 10, 15 miles a week, going out for runs at 7 50, 7 40, 7 30 pace and kind of being winded after those 3, 4, 5 mile runs.

And I just remember being so impressed with that he was able to do that and I was like if he can do that after, like if that training works, this is one of those other things of wow, I see that if you actually run and try and get better, you can get better at something.

Chris Detzel: Yes. So

Eric Bretl: [00:08:00] that kind of inspired me to start.

And then, yeah, once I started learning how to train, watching YouTube videos of what people are doing, weeding out what's good information, bad information, I started to really try and go for it. But then, yeah I did the Dallas app as I mentioned, and that didn't go quite the way I had wanted it to go.

So I wanted a redemption race. And so I signed up for, in February was the hot chocolate 15 K down in Dallas also. And that was just a couple weeks later and I was like. So the Dallas half, I went out pretty hot and just died at the end. Had no idea what I was in for. Went out at six 30 PACE and did going eight 30 pace.

Yeah I thought I was better than I was for sure. So at this time you learned closer to seven minute pace and kind of worked my way down and I was actually able to finish my last mile at six 15 Pace, I believe. So that went so much better and that got me reinvigorated for running. I think it was around this time that I had got on Strava and started following people on Strava.

I maybe had 10 followers and was following 10 other people. But I remember looking at the results and seeing [00:09:00] two people that lived in my area, Frisco, Plano type area that were around the spirit at speed that I aspired to be. So I think my average pace there was like six 30 or six 40. And so I saw Maddie Jenkins then.

So Maddie Steyer now had around like a six oh. And then Kevin Simons was another guy who ran like a six 10 pace, so I looked them up on Strava, followed them. They both had a ton of followers already, so I was like, okay I'll follow them. It's just inspiration for what my training be. That's the first time I started seeing people working harder than me.

I was like, whoa. They do 15, 16, 17 mile long runs. That's crazy.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Eric Bretl: So then I actually saw that on Strava, you know how it like groups, people together if they run together? I had no idea Strava did that because I followed 10 people and then none of them ran together. But then I saw Maddie ran with Kevin and I was like, oh man, they trained together.

That's pretty cool. I wonder if that's something that I could get involved in. So after a couple more weeks of creeping around, seeing where they train, making sure they're normal people I reached out to Kevin on [00:10:00] Facebook because Kevin was the. Dude, and I feel like it would be weird to reach out to the girl on Facebook and meet you at 5:00 AM but reached out to Kevin.

Oh,

Chris Detzel: that's me meeting you.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. Reached out to Kevin. He was like, yeah, come join us. We meet at 5:00 AM on Tuesdays at Plano West. So that's when I started running with the Raise Track Club group was the first group that we started running with and meeting every Tuesday. So then yeah. That's a

Chris Detzel: great dude

Eric Bretl: where I started to take off my training.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, same Ray's a great dude. I like him a lot.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, the, yeah, that was a lot of fun those first couple years of running with all those guys and getting to know everyone in the running community that, I think I met hundreds of people in that first year when I first met everyone, and it was even during COVID, I think it was the May after the March of COVID.

So like pretty cool, two months after they're like, oh yeah, I guess this guy can run with us, and all that good stuff. So I appreciate them welcoming me in and introducing me to everyone.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. So you started running with those guys. And they're running both a lot more, but also probably marathons and stuff.

Is that when you kind.[00:11:00]

Eric Bretl: When they said they do marathons, I'm like, I would love to run a fast half marathon, but I'm never gonna do a marathon. I actually said that and I was like, there's so much that can go wrong in marathons, whether it's your nutrition or the weather, like a half marathon. You can gut it out through whatever the marathon, there's so many other factors that can go into it.

You can train so hard for so long that I'm never gonna do it. Lo and behold, you start doing 60, 70, 80 miles a week and you're like what am I gonna use this fitness for, if not for a marathon? Yeah. Exactly. Eventually they get,

Chris Detzel: what did you get your half marathon down first or what? What'd you do

Eric Bretl: before?

Yeah, so that other kind of fun story is I was training with them, so I, if I upped my mileage from like 25, 30 miles a week to 50 or 60 miles a week, just by the nature of like twos, were now 10 miles Thursdays, were now 10 miles and long runs were 15 miles. And I would run three to four on my own in the days in between.

So running with people like. It doesn't feel like as much work as when you're running alone. Yes, I've been doing so much more mileage, but it was, [00:12:00] honestly, it felt easier than training alone. I signed up for a half marathon. It was the town lake half marathon in Bikini, which was one of the first half marathons post COVID that was going on again.

And I had a goal of running 1 25 there because I knew I was in better shape. I knew I had more money. I thought I could do it and I actually ended up bringing a one 19, which was, that blew my mind when I like crossing. I was like, I never thought in a million years. That's pretty crazy. Crazy. Yeah, it was crazy.

That blew my mind five minutes faster than I was thinking. Breaking one 20, which is a barrier that I think a lot of people are striving for and just doing it on a whim. I was like. Man, there might be something to this. So that was the first time that opened my eyes of one, I definitely was never the hardest worker in the room.

Two, I still have a lot more room that I can improve, and three running is something that like seeing the results of the hard work that you put in is so addicting to me. So seeing that I ratchet got me so much more excited for what I could do possibly do.

Chris Detzel: When you run like that, thinking you were gonna go out at 1 25, did you [00:13:00] start out at, because that's quite the difference for half marathon, right?

Eric Bretl: Was a brown 6 30, 6 20 to start. And then my last maybe 10 K was five fifties. Because yeah, I think a one 19 is maybe a 6 0 5, 6 0 6 out because yeah, I think 2, 4, 6 0 6. So one 20 would be 6 0 6. But yeah, I started in the 6 30, 6 20 and actually me, Ray and Maddie ran that together. So the first four to five miles I was with Ray and Maddie.

I think that's actually Maddie's current still half PR at a one 20 something. And Rick. Right there with us. I forget what he ran, but yeah, the three of us were together for three, four or five, the first five miles. And then I was feeling good. I was like last time I felt good. I didn't feel so good at the end, but it worked out that time the more miles definitely helped pay the bills there.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. It sounds like you went out somewhat. You went out like you thought you should right. To run that 1 25, you started pushing at the end, the last 10 KI mean that's

Eric Bretl: That's

Chris Detzel: pretty impressive. I like that.

Eric Bretl: And that's actually, that's the most way to race that I [00:14:00] find is if you, yeah.

Not that sometimes you can be like, I get all outta myself. If I did, if I was able to go that fast at the end, did I really try as hard as I can? But at that moment, not knowing I could go that fast, that was the most fun way to, in one of the most fun races that I've done, just by how shocking it was.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I've had a few races like that to where. I kinda start off somewhat, reserved and then the last I'm like, man, I feel really good and just blow, blow it away the last six or seven miles. I love the half marathon. I, I prd at the age of 50 last year or back in September. Wow.

And so I've run a lot. Not like you, but. I think I hit a 1 26. And so for me that's was really fast. Yeah. It was a downhill, but I, I still count it.

Eric Bretl: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And I think that's what you have to do is I, for me now, I have to be somewhat strategic. If I wanna run a PR in the hos, to say, okay, for these first three or four miles I need to do this, then I need to do this, and, so I gotta know the course and things like that. But that's pretty awesome. 19 thinking you're gonna get a 1 25 at best.

Eric Bretl: [00:15:00] Yeah. Yeah, I think there's about knowing the course, like you said, but yeah,

Chris Detzel: I think it help, it can help, because I'll give you a quick rundown. I probably said this in this podcast before, I went to this downhill race back in September in Utah, and basically.

First, I did it two years ago and I did it this last year. And so I knew if I run faster the first three miles than I, because knowing it's a downhill, I knew the last three miles were gonna be slower no matter what. It just was I knew that because I ran it conservatively the first three miles the first time, and I was like, I'm not running it conservatively this time.

I'm gonna give, I'm gonna push a little and I'm gonna go faster. So I went from seven fifteens to down to six 30. So my first. Three miles were about six 30 ish. And then my next, I knew that this is where the really fast stuff gets, from mile four or five or whatever, all the way till nine or 10.

So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go fast anyways, but I gotta push myself faster. This is a different type of race, right? This is not a race that you do conservative at the beginning and then push at the end. And [00:16:00] I'll tell in a minute but I knew because. Downhill part really fast, downhill.

I need to push faster than I did last time, even though I was going super fast. By 10 or 15 seconds each mile. I was going faster. So it went from

Before I did it from a six 18 to 6 0 7. So I did three, six oh sevens, and then I knew the last three or four miles. I was like, all right, this is where it's gonna really hurt, because then it's no longer, it's just flat.

It wasn't downhill or uphill, but it was just fun. But it feels uphill after doing Yeah. 10 miles like that. And so then. I knew before I did about a seven 15, the first time, seven 20, so I knew if I can hit the seven 10 to 7 0 5 mark. 'cause I'm just dying. My legs are just killing me.

Yeah. I knew they would, but all I had to do was get it out. And I did, but I got two or three minutes better the per the second time. The first point is I was very strategic and I was very much in shape for knowing that's the exact race that I was trying for a 1 25 hit. Oh 1 26, almost exactly.

I was like, but I still hit a [00:17:00] pr, by two and a half minutes or so For sure. Something, and

Eric Bretl: yeah. You have to push it at the beginning, just like if you know the course and there's other races where you have to race conservative, but if you race conservative at that kind of race, it's gonna be hard at the end no matter what.

Like you said, you gotta use your effort somewhere. And my bank some time.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And I and I've never heard of anybody doing that, but I thought that's what I'm gonna do. That's what I did last time, the first time. So back to you because this isn't about me, sorry. But, but I get that. So you run the half and get a one 19. What was then after? What'd you do?

Eric Bretl: I honestly don't really remember. Like what? After that I just kept training with that one. Kinda, yeah. I don't remember what my race after that was. Maybe it was Houston, my first, so my first marathon was Houston.

I believe it was 2022. Was it today? I was,

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Eric Bretl: Used because it's in January and you're training in one year and, but I think it was 2022. Because I had been run like, not at this point, I'd been running with them for I think two or so years. I was going down to White Rock to long runs, which that's a another good kind of [00:18:00] beginning story.

My first 15, 60 mile long run, I just got absolutely dropped and just had to weekend after weekend. Just had to keep going until you eventually you can keep up and then eventually you can start doing workouts. But those first runs when you're used to doing 10 mile long runs on your own to going to 16 miles with the group.

I just got absolutely. And handled on those, but that's what makes you better is running with that group. And so you just keep up as long as you can until eventually you can keep up with the group. But yeah, I think after two or so years of training with everyone who had done marathons before, I was one of the only ones that hadn't done a marathon.

I signed up for Houston and I had a lofty goal for my first marathon to run a sub 2 45. And that's So for your first, I wish. So I wish I had run a marathon before I started training to know like where my set point was. Like if I didn't train like at three 30, would I be a four hour marathon or who knows what I would've ran.

But yeah, after training, like I had that goal because I was running 60, 70 miles a week and everyone that I had run with that I'm training with. Marathons before, and I saw what they were doing. And so I [00:19:00] ran that race probably 95% with Jennifer, and she had done marathons before. She ended up running a 2 43, and I ended up running a 2 44.

So I did actually hit the goal and that kind of Yes.

Chris Detzel: And your first marathon.

Eric Bretl: That was a blessing and a curse because after that I was like, marathon, like I felt pretty bad the last 10 K, but like I was able to push through, like marathons aren't so bad and thankfully I actually haven't had a bad marathon, but I do think I'm a pretty good pacer when it comes to marathons, and also I do a decent amount of mileage.

But yeah, I really have had a bad marathon, knock on wood. Now that I say that. I also haven't raced that many marathons. I think I've raced a total of four marathons now.

Chris Detzel: It's probably

Eric Bretl: smart. Yeah. Yeah. I would like, before CIM that I just did in December, I was obviously planning to run Boston, and we can get into that, how I wasn't able to do that, but before I was, probably almost two years since I had run a marathon, before CIM, so part of me running CIM was like.

My body doesn't remember how, what it's like to [00:20:00] run a marathon. I'm trying to do as, as fast as I've ever done it, faster than I've ever done it, and I haven't done it in two years. So hopefully my body is remembered.

Chris Detzel: You talking from this last one was the first time you've done it in two

Eric Bretl: years?

Yes. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Eric Bretl: That's the one. Five. I had my LA marathon before. That was Cowtown in February, two years prior to that.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I'm sure. Did you get a 2 45 there? Because that'd be really good.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, so I ran the 2 45 at Houston and then I did Houston again and ran a 2 49. I was going for a sub two 40, blew up there, but still ended up being 2 49, which I was very proud of.

And then I did Cow Town and that's where. I thought I was still in sub two 40 shape, but I really wanted a Boston qualifier, so I raced it pretty conservatively and ran a 2 41 there. So that was just to get the Boston, I'm very blessed to say that was just to get the Boston qualifier and raced that one conservatively.

I think I negative split that one too, which was a nice feeling at the a race like that. Especially

Chris Detzel: cow tell.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. Yeah. That Luckily the hill is at mile 10 and not mile [00:21:00] 20, so

Chris Detzel: yeah,

Eric Bretl: it feels a little bit. But yeah, then I Did you win?

Chris Detzel: Did you win that one or no?

Eric Bretl: No, I think was fourth. I think. Maybe one night.

And then Troy Castle was also ahead of me. I forget there was one more person ahead of me too. I talked to

Chris Detzel: him the other day, Joe Hill. So be a fun.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. It's part of that Dallas.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. All right let's get into the Boston thing. What happened, like you were supposed to run Boston this last year.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, Cowtown was, I, the whole goal was to qualify for Boston because I really wanted to run Boston, so I did that, qualified for Boston, trained for Boston with the whole group. And then, I don't know this 100%, but I'm fairly confident that I got a new pair of shoes to race Boston in. Tried them for to work out three weeks out.

And it was okay. I just had I was a little bit sore in my foot after that workout and just not anything crazy, just normal soreness. Oh, it's a new shoe, my feet. And then two weeks out, I did one more workout because I was like, oh, I wanna strengthen my feet. Make sure they're used to these shoes.

Turns out that was a terrible idea. I got [00:22:00] a stress reaction because I think the shoes were a little too unsupportive for what I was used to. And so my, the muscles in my. Were like compensating to be a bone or just pulled super tight and I I tried to run through it as everyone does less than a week out from race day.

And I think that ended up causing me more I think if I would've stopped immediately when I felt it, I maybe could have made, this is a race start.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Eric Bretl: But I was like. We're close enough, it's just a little niggle or something like that, I'll be fine. And then eventually on the six mile run, I think it was five days out from Boston, I ended up having to walk three miles home on a six mile loop that I was doing.

So then I was panic mode and I was texting everyone I knew and Matt Campbell had sent me a manual therapist kinda, I was like texting anyone that would listen to Hey, I need to get my leg worked out. I think it's just a tight muscle that could maybe loosen up and let some. Pain in my foot go away.

But I think it was a little too far gone at that point where it caused that stress reaction versus if I had stopped earlier, what I thought my [00:23:00] remedy could be of working a muscle out may have worked, but I think I had pushed it a little too far. So wasn't I did go to Boston. I flew to Boston. I had every intention of running.

I met up with Aaron two days before and did the shakeout run for, I think I was able to run like a quarter mile at a time and then had to start walking. And so then one day before the race. I was like, all right, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna run three straight miles and no matter what, no matter how much it hurts, I'm gonna run three miles just to see like what it's gonna be like on race day when I line up.

Yeah. Because at this point I was fairly confident that I wanted to line up 'cause I didn't know it was a stress reaction. Also, at this point, I couldn't get an MRI that quick, but I was like, all right, it's gonna feel better. I'm gonna take these off. Is

Chris Detzel: this just fracture or is it stress reaction?

Eric Bretl: Just the react.

So it was like, if I would've done more on it, it would've caused a fracture. Necessarily ins and outs. Someone can probably tell me that I'm wrong.

Chris Detzel: Okay. I didn't.

Eric Bretl: Confirmed a reaction in there and just took some time off. But yeah, the day before Boston, I was gonna go for that three mile run that [00:24:00] I was gonna just do no matter what.

And I made it a quarter mile at six 30 pace, just trying to test out a little bit of race pace and I was like, absolutely not. This is way too painful. Can't I'm not running normal. So it was a blessing and a curse because I think if I would have not done that and just went to the starting line.

I probably would have been, had to pull out at one mile and two miles in. Yeah, it wouldn't have enjoyed any of it. Would've had to have been driven back to this finish line in a van. Wouldn't have been able to watch everyone. But so that morning, the day before when I decided to pull the plug, my wife was there too.

We just decided to go explore Boston. Had a few drinks. I actually had some buddies there that flew out from Wisconsin to watch me run. Unfortunately, they couldn't. But I was able to party with him the night before. So we got to see Boston, we got to do some fun things, and then the next day we all got to watch the race together.

I got to watch, everyone that I trained with have awesome races. So there was a little bit of a silver lining of, I think if it was a race like Dallas, like if it was in Dallas and I was training for the Dallas Marathon, I think I honestly [00:25:00] would've been more upset because there's nothing else to do other than just be home, maybe go watch the race.

Yeah. But I got a vacation to Boston out of it. It made it a silver lining and it was, overall, it was still a fun trip. It was obviously a bummer and I think I wa I was more upset. The day that it happened, like the five days before the race because I was like, this might ruin everything, all that stuff.

But then I had time to let it sink in and realize what goes on. And now honestly removed from it a year or so later, like it's just such a small blip in your running career. That it, yeah, it taking time off and then when you're coming back it feels like so long, but it is just such a small blip and you get back so quick from even if you have to take six full weeks off it, whatever you have trained before it.

You don't lose that, you just have to gain it back in half the time usually.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, and I think that's a good lesson because, we as runners spend so much time and effort running friends with, getting our bodies in that shape that, when we do get injured or whatever, we had a hard time taking off or going to do the weights or going to, [00:26:00] to the doctor or whatever, because. We don't wanna lose our fitness. We don't wanna lose our community that we go and see. And it's just, I don't know what it's, but it's just really hard. And I like how you said that because it's just a BLI man. It's just, shit happens. It just does.

Yeah.

Eric Bretl: It's in the moment when you feel something and you're like, I should take a day off and just let it recover. But you're like, oh man, one day I'm gonna lose all my fitness that I've ever worked for.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Eric Bretl: But then you, after. And you take a week or two off and you're like, oh, after two weeks of coming back, I'm just right back where I was.

So it is just like a, you're a of the moment and oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. But then you remove, you zoom. Realize it's just part of life. It'll move on everything. There's more races to be found.

Chris Detzel: Did you, after, like what, did you go to the doctor or what happened?

Eric Bretl: Yeah, so I did go get an MRI just, because at that point, obviously Boston was over, but I just wanted to like, I wanted answers, if it was a stress fracture. I needed to take six weeks off. That's fine. I just wanna know. I wanna know what my path is moving from. So they [00:27:00] confirmed there is no stress fracture, but there is a reaction.

So I should, they recommended I think two weeks of nothing, and then a couple more weeks of just like light walk, jogging and then moving back. So the first run back, I think two or three weeks later was actually super painful. But I remember it being like such a. Kind of pain. Like when I had the reaction, I would step on my foot and it would immediately zing like when I landed.

But this was like, I could land fine, but my push off was just in pain. So I could tell it was like I something that like my muscles and just needed to re acclimate to running. It was like my muscles that were protecting the injury were now, like now needs to be broken up and kinda, at least this is what I tell myself.

I don't know if this is medically accurate or not, but it worked. So I did a walk run.

Chris Detzel: It seemed to work. It

Eric Bretl: was different, pains it, and then I took a day off and then, so I did every other day for I think two weeks. And that kind of helped loosen it up and get everything back. And then I was back to 20, 30 miles a week, running six days a week.

So just short runs. And then a week or two later I was [00:28:00] back to normal training.

Chris Detzel: And then did you, when did you know you were gonna go run CIM? Because that, I assume that was your next race from a marathon standpoint.

Eric Bretl: So Aaron and I had trained most for Boston together. Jennifer was there too.

Jennifer was doing London, which was a week later. So training lined up, but that was the first marathon that the three of us had, like a very similar time goal, a very similar training plan, a very similar like race date. And that's when we all linked up. For training most of the time.

And so Aaron was able to run, and me and him were planning to run the whole race together. And I felt bad that I felt like I'm ditching him and he obviously felt bad because I wasn't able to run after putting in all that work. Sure. You didnt tell. Yeah. So I think it was right after the race at Boston.

I texted Aaron a screenshot of my signup for CIM because I was like, I need redemption. I think it was Dustin who we run with Dustin direction, I believe that's how you say his name, who had messaged the group up. That he signed up for CIM and there were a couple others that are already committed.

And I wasn't necessarily I am like a one marathon a year kind of guy. I like to take my recovery, I like to train for faster [00:29:00] stuff in between, but after not being able to do Boston. Thinking I was in really good shape. I was like, I need some redemption. So I signed up while still in Boston in my hotel.

Chris Detzel: I love that. I didn't know you guys were gonna do it that early, but so you already knew you were gonna go through that. So when you were training, there was no nicks and. Bruises or you didn't get hurt or anything like that, throw out the training block.

Eric Bretl: Yes. I hate training in summer in Texas, so I knew I was gonna start like early September for the December race.

So Boston was April. Took a little bit of time off, took the summer to build back, slowly, do some speed and lower mileage. Lower mileage now being like 40 to 50 miles a week. And then in September. Training kicked off, so carried over some of that Boston Fitness. Kept some speed in summer by doing some shorter, faster reps, and then September started the marathon training.

Chris Detzel: Did you do any five Ks during the summer?

Eric Bretl: I honestly don't remember if I did any K races. My 5K PR is from the dash down, Greenville, the March after the February of my Cowtown marathon, [00:30:00] so that was maybe 24. But yeah, that's a couple. Did. What was your PR. 1620 in the 5K.

Chris Detzel: Okay. All right.

Eric Bretl: Which pretty fast.

My next goal is to break 16 minutes in the 5K, but that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Chris Detzel: I like it. You should start running with the Travis' and Steves and Casey and those guys,

Eric Bretl: yeah. I break 16 minutes in their sleep. I think so, yeah. I may, maybe I'll have one of them. Pace me.

Chris Detzel: Couple of those guys hit thirteens.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's nice to have put that

Chris Detzel: in perspective

Eric Bretl: thirteens, it's nice to have guys that could run your race pace at a jog. Not that necessarily that feels good, that they're good, but the fact that they can be out there and do it and pace you pretty reliably. Yeah, it's nice to have

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Alright, you get to the marathon finally, right? Like you spent all this time and effort, September obvi obviously until December really training. How did your training block go? How'd you feel? Were you ready? What was your mentality? All that kind of stuff.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, so the training block went pretty [00:31:00] well. I honestly. Would probably have told you that the Boston training block that I did went better, but that's mostly just because I think we had better weather for that Boston training block. Yeah. I'm a pretty weather dependent runner, which is a blessing and a curse.

I feel like it's, I make so much and so many excuses when it's warm, but I love running in 30 degrees and colder, like I'm a very much a cold. My heart rate just stays lower it seems. So a lot of the workouts for this CIM build were in a little bit warmer of weather, and by warmer 60 degrees.

Nothing crazy. Like everyone else loves this temperature. I'm just like, I wish I, we could have low forties and stuff like that. So a lot of the work, like it's getting train

Chris Detzel: warmer weather. Yeah,

Eric Bretl: that's good for you, especially for the longer the, yeah, the longer reps, it definitely builds tough, but Jennifer, Aaron and I had built the CI build.

It's very similar to our Boston Build. We had similar key workouts. We had similar kind of races, it sprinkled in there. So one of the key workouts is a 15 mile workout where you do. Four miles at [00:32:00] mp, one mile at threshold and repeat that continuously three times. And so in the Boston build, we had absolutely nailed that.

I think for 15 miles we averaged five 50 pace, which was five seconds faster than our gold marathon pace. Obviously we had the threshold miles thrown in there, but it was 15 miles straight at five 50 pace. This Boston build, we did that same workout. I had to quit or like a rep early. I could not do the last four miles at Marathon Pace.

I was so beat. It was so hot and humid and so hot and humid. It was like 70 degrees and really humid. So I was such a weather dependent guy. But one of the races, so we actually did the Toyota, me and Aaron did the Toyota Music Factory, have Marathon and Irving and I had run like I would. Like maybe I'll run a one 15.

My current PR was a 1 15, 40 going into that and I was like, I think I could better my pr, but I don't know that I'll go much lower than one 15. Maybe I'll hit one 14 high and we ran a 1 13 40 or I was 1 14 30. I think Aaron was 1 14 30, just. [00:33:00] And that kind of blew me away too. That was a, it was actually a very similar feeling to when I ran the one 19 and when I was going for 1 25.

I thought there was no way. Yeah. In how could break one 14, run a one 13 and actually during the Holton, so Aaron and I ran that basically 100% together. He beat me by three seconds at the end, but his PR was one 14 low and mine was 1 15 40. And so blah. Like I'm a big math guy and he's just a run by vibes guy.

And I was doing math in my head at like mile six or seven. I was like, I think if you go now you can still PR Aaron like one 14. Neither of us were expecting to run that fast and I kept saying that to him like miles and miles to go. I was like, Aaron, like you need to start going right now. Like I know you're fitter than me.

You can go and you can still pr. Because I thought maybe we would run a one 14 high. And he was like, no, I'm good. I'm good. And then at the end I realized why he was good and I was like, we were going way faster than either of us had assumed we were going. So that it was that race in November. Was that doing the

Chris Detzel: bad

Eric Bretl: math?

Yeah, we, yeah, we might have something [00:34:00] special here. Yeah. When we turned the corner and I saw one 13 on the clock, I was like, either I'm doing math wrong, this course is wrong, or I'm way faster than I thought I was. Luckily it was the latter because the GPS was 13.2 or whatever, a half marathon reads as and, but yeah, so that was a good feeling going into it.

And after that, I was just like, all right. Now that I can prove to myself that I am fit, I just need to make it to the start line healthy. So every workout after that November was just like, I'm not gonna overdo it. I'm not gonna wear new shoes. We're just gonna try and make it to see I, yeah, healthy.

And luckily we were able to do that. But yeah the training block was ups and downs depending on the weather, which is the story of my running life. If it's 40 degrees on a Saturday, you'll catch me cruising around a white rock if it's 70 degrees. On that same Saturday at White Rock, you'll catch me dying behind everyone.

But the training stimulus is still there.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Alright, that, that's awesome. So it sounds like it went extremely well and sounds like you would've been very confident because of the half and some of the training blocks and things, and so that you know that bodes well for [00:35:00] CIM. Did you ever run ci, you've never run CIM before, that's your first,

Eric Bretl: I

Chris Detzel: assume, right?

Eric Bretl: Done. Houston twice the Chicago Marathon once Southtown once, and then CIM was. So yeah, those are the only ones I've done.

Chris Detzel: And all right, let's talk about race day then. You get to CIM. How are you thinking? How are you feeling? What, what did you and Jennifer and Aaron talk about? Did y'all think.

That you're gonna run together or did you not? 'Cause it sounds like you guys had somewhat similar goals.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. Yeah. So Jennifer was in the elite, or a DP corral, I forget which one it was. So she was starting at the Wavefront and Erin and I were traveled together. We went on the bus, and so Erin and I were for sure gonna run together at least for however long.

At the beginning we were gonna start in the corral together and hope we, we were hoping we could find Jennifer at some point in the race, but we know 10 seconds at a marathon when you're going marathon paces, like you could beat. 2, 3, 4 miles before you find someone if that maybe she goes up faster than we do.

So we didn't know if we were gonna find her or not. We were hoping we would, but Erin and I lined up together and then, so yeah, I guess this can [00:36:00] get into the whole story of CI's Erin and I start together. We go off and at, I think it was around mile two, we saw Jennifer, I think she was wearing pink shorts.

Very easy to find. So we, I scurry up and we go find her and she's whoa, you guys caught us pretty quick. And, the little joke that we have is, Erin and I are always arguing on long runs about what pace we're going, how fast we're going, where we should go. We're singing, we're doing some stupid thing to be entertaining or annoying, one of the two.

And so Jennifer, she, it's mild, two of a marathon. We're all in pretty good spirits, so she's you caught me like pretty quick. How fast were you guys going? Aaron says, oh, we were going like five 40 per mile. And I was like, Nope, that's definitely not correct. And he is yeah, I had five 40 on my first mile.

Nope, your GPS was wrong. I lapsed splitted it at mile one. It was about six flat, so we weren't going that fast. And then Jennifer was like, yep. 'cause Jennifer was in the group of all these like OTQ girls and like all these like a little bit more serious than Erin and I were being, she's Hey guys, these are my friends.

Just the annoying two that just argued the whole time. And it was a [00:37:00] funny little joke that we had. And then so Jennifer joined me and Erin, we took off a little bit from that OTQ group. We were going like 5 52, 5 53 pace. And they were sticking at six flat base, which is the OTQ pace. And then, yeah, we stuck like that for.

I guess we were together for 20 miles. But then in the middle there, at some point Aaron pulled a nice errand move on, me and Jennifer that we're used to in training, but everyone else around us were surprised. He dropped something on the ground and we thought he dropped a gel. So we're both yelling Aaron, don't stop.

We'll give you a gel. Like we have enough extra. So he starts running forward again. Then he stops again and he falls over and we're like, what is it? Me and Jennifer both this is classic Aaron. What is he doing? He had actually done something like this before on a long run where he had to stop to tie his shoe and then caught back up and we were like in the middle of doing five 40 pace.

And we're like, how is he gonna catch up somehow? He always does. But he ended up falling over 'cause it was wet on the ground. So when he stopped, he chipped, he fell over, he still ran backwards. He had ended up, it was, he dropped his [00:38:00] speaker that he brought with him to listen to at the end of the race.

And men caught back up and we were like, Aaron, what are you doing? Why did you do that? And he's I don't know. I think the time that. I would have lost by not having the speaker was worth this time that I just spent to go get it. So you know what? Whatever you, it works. What's up?

Chris Detzel: You said he fell.

Eric Bretl: He did fall. Yeah. So he,

Chris Detzel: wow. All right. Mile 20, whatever. He falls, he gets a speaker, and then what happens? How are you feeling by

Eric Bretl: the way, of mile 20? Yeah, this was about, this was a little bit before halfway that this, it all occurred. It wasn't mile 20 yet. I think if it was mile 20, it would've been a little more detriment.

That's a little bit earlier in the race, but yeah, so we kept, we, me, Jennifer, and Aaron were together for mile two until about mile 20. At Mile 20. Aaron and Jennifer took off a, I guess they didn't really take off. I more was falling back a little bit. I was getting pretty tired, so they probably put 20 to 30 seconds on me and I could still see the I could still see where they were, but they obviously didn't know what happened.

They, for all they know, like I was just. Spanked and [00:39:00] dead and didn't continue, but I kept them in my sights and that was actually, it was really helpful having two people that I trained with before up in front of me in my sights because I could, I was kinda like, oh, if they're doing it like I should be able to do it too.

There's no reason for me to start falling off. I can continue to run and push. And so that kind of helped me get through those. Little woes of oh no, I'm dying. I'm crashing, I'm burning, my legs are gonna give out. I was like, no. There's two people that I trained with that did everything with that are up there still, so like I should still be able to push on.

And then mile 24, I saw that Aaron was pulling a little bit away from Jennifer and I was catching Jennifer A. Little bit as well. So that kind of gave me a little more motivation of I have a chance to be Jennifer here. She had the OTQ locked up. That was her big goal. She didn't wanna crash and burn.

We were running on 2 35 pace. And so she had two minutes to spare. So I started to kick it in because I was like, if I can beat her. And she's just settling in we'll go ahead and do that. So Jennifer and I ran, I think mile 24 and 25 together. And then I pulled ahead a little bit just 'cause it was the end of the race and I was like, you know what, it gotta give [00:40:00] it all you have.

And Aaron had finished. About 20 seconds I think before me. And I actually, so when I crossed the finish line, Aaron was maybe one or two spots ahead of me. So not many people were there. And Aaron's oh Eric, great job. We did it. 'cause our goal was 2 35. And I was like, yeah, I've been here the whole time, man.

Like I knew I was gonna do and I. I just, I told him this literally the other day. I was like, I realize now that when you saw me at the finish line, you had no idea where I was. I could have been five minutes behind. I could have been 10 minutes behind. He's yeah, for all I know, like you just stopped and walked.

So yeah. Yeah, that was nice that he ran a 2, 3, 5 0 2, I think something like that, which is a little bit unfortunate 'cause I think. 2 34 would've been cool for him, but now me it was actually really cool that me, Aaron and Jennifer, we all ran a 2 35 something. So three people that did a lot of the training together over the course of a full marathon where so much can happen, so much can go wrong, someone can fall, we finish within 30 or 40 seconds of each other.

So that was really

Chris Detzel: cool. Love that story. And I talked to Aaron as well about some of the same stories, [00:41:00] so it'd be fun to, for you guys to kinda listen to each other's story, when it all comes out.

Eric Bretl: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Because you tell a little different.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, I'm sure our perspective a little different of how, what was going on during the race.

Yeah.

Chris Detzel: So what'd y'all do after the race?

Eric Bretl: Aaron and I actually, we roomed together at CIM. So we had the hotel room with two. It was, there were two bedrooms in it, two bathrooms, all that kind of stuff. I would never wanna share a marathon hotel room with someone with only one bathroom. So I had booked a hotel and I was able to upgrade it.

Because Aaron for some reason didn't book his hotel for reasons unbeknownst to me, but I was able to upgrade mine and get a room with two room. It was like a suite with two rooms and a whole kitchen setup and all that kind of stuff. So that was nice. And our hotel actually had a hot tub, so Aaron and I did the 15 minute.

Waddle back to our hotel, immediately got in the hot tub, greatest decision of our lives. That felt so good. It relaxed my muscles so much, and then we went to Yard House with a bunch of the people that had finished it. It was like Melanie, Madeline, [00:42:00] Liz, Maddie. Jennifer, Aaron, Dustin and Jeff were there. I know you had grace, Mel and Maddie who were on your podcast.

They were all there and I think they actually all together in an Airbnb too, so we all met up for drinks and to share stories and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, I think Melanie had was the one that mentioned that on the podcast that Dustin was the one that he brought his kids, but the rest of us were solo home free.

So we were all just having some drinks, sharing our stories about the races, doing race recaps. Which is always so much fun 'cause we all did the same thing, but we all had so much different experiences, just oh, how did you feel around this part? Oh, you remember this part? It was, yeah. So it was just fun catching up, sharing stories like that.

Chris Detzel: What's amazing to me is that, I don't know if everyone had an amazing race, but for the most part, the majority of people seemed to have an amazing race that were there, right? Like

Eric Bretl: yeah. PR

Chris Detzel: or

Eric Bretl: people. He drunk at that celebration. I think everyone at pr, those three girls that broke two 50, me, Jennifer and Aaron, that were going for 2 [00:43:00] 35, got 2 35.

Jeff had run a huge pr. His old PR I think was 2 42. He ran a 2 37. So yeah, everyone was just giddy with a new marathon. That's and leaving our families behind, like we love our families to travel with us, but that's the goal of doing something like this is so you can get that huge PR so you, you can show that what you've been training for is worth it.

So being able to share that moment and just like everyone hit their. Was super exciting.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And congratulations. It was quite the accomplishment. And hey, you did it with your friends, community and I talk about this all the time and how important it is you truly showed the importance.

And Aaron and Jennifer and, Maddie and Grace, and even Melanie, even those three didn't run with each other per se. They still, came together at the end of the day. And still accomplished amazing things. I love,

Eric Bretl: yeah. I give Mallon. Kudos for training a solo.

I know they said that it was fun seeing people on Strava, but truly, I, if I didn't have the people here to run with like Jennifer and Aaron and [00:44:00] then Maddie's who is doing runs with us I don't think I would be training nearly as hard as I do. I, like I told you, going from a 1 34 half to the one 19 half, that was truly just because of running with people that were faster than me and trying to keep up.

Yep. And then waking I would never wake up at 5:00 AM to run 14 miles, do like a five by two mile workout if I was solo. So having those accountability partners, people that have the same goals in mind, it definitely helps and there's no way that I would be running nearly as quick as I would be now without the community that we have.

Chris Detzel: Is there anything that we missed or didn't discuss about your journey or the marathon that you were like? I wish we would've discussed this.

Eric Bretl: I don't think so. I think the big theme in my like running progression and career is just that community aspect. Once you find those people with common goals that just wanna get better, that wanna help you improve, they're there for you.

You're there for them. That's just it's crazy the improvements you can see and like I never thought that I would be able to run as fast as I am now. If you would've asked me, like when I was training for a one 30 half marathon, if I would [00:45:00] run as fast as I am now, there's no way I would be like, I'm an elite runner now.

What are you talking about? Whereas I know now, like I'm not necessarily elite, but if you would've asked me about those times back then, for sure, would've thought,

Chris Detzel: all right, for tuning another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Zel. Thanks, Derek Bre for coming in. Make sure you subscribe to our newsletter at DFW running talk com.

Thanks again.