McKirdy Trained Coach Ruth Atkinson on Building Durable Runners

DFW Running Talk: Ruth Atkinson - McKirdy Trained
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

All right. Welcome to another DFW B Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today's special guest is Ruth Atkinson. Ruth, how are you?

Ruth Atkinson: Hi Chris. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm good. I'm good. Thank you.

Chris Detzel: Good. It's really exciting to have you on and I always call it pre-show, which we talked for five minutes and I said a lot of words.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it is funny 'cause I was talking to Kendall arose and I think she's one of your athletes that you've coached now or in the past, I'm not sure. But and she's done some really amazing things and she mentioned that I should talk to you and here we are. So I appreciate you getting on.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, she's awesome and I do still coach her and it's been it really fun journey with her, a couple years and it's morphed into, friends running into coach athlete and now.

Co-coaching, like sharing coaching ideas and coach, athlete and friends. So yeah, love her. She's great.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty awesome. And I know you're with McCurdy trained as a [00:01:00] coach, and so I am, we'll dive deep into that later, but before we do, let's talk a little bit about you and your journey into running.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. I did not run in school. I despised the gym mile. I was okay at it, like I actually was okay at it. I just hated doing it and I played sports that involved little running like volleyball. Where you don't have to run. Running is a punishment, but I, did some athletics in school. And then in college I was a music major. So before I full-time run, coached, I was a music teacher. I taught choir. And then, at first I taught band and so I was doing drum core, which if you don't know what that is, is like the NFL of marching band.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Ruth Atkinson: to put it simply, so you're running around on a field all day for 12 hours, three months of the year while playing your instrument. So it's very athletic, but again, not running. So that was all over. And then I, he was like, one night I remember thinking, I don't have a hobby.

Like my husband plays video games at [00:02:00] night and I just watched Grey's Anatomy and I, the one night, it's not that show, it's, no, it's not. But I was like, I wanna do something, yeah. And so the one night, this

Chris Detzel: took July instead of watching TV all night.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah, I went for a run in our apartment complex.

I think I made it probably a 10th of a mile. And I was like, wow, that was exhilarating. I didn't remember it feeling that way. So then I was hooked. I started running more and eventually that year, this December of 2018, I ran a 10 K race. What? And I was like, I'm gonna keep doing it.

Chris Detzel: And you didn't do a 5K or anything like that.

It was just starting off as a 15 k. I

Ruth Atkinson: was like if I could already had, I had got myself up to running three miles. And so of course, the ego was like, I could already run a 5K. Why would I sign up for a 5K?

Chris Detzel: I wanna go some, I wanna go back a little bit 'cause I'm intrigued.

Did you do marching band in high school or in, yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: I split my time in high school between like volleyball, softball and then music stuff. I did show choir and musicals, marching band. [00:03:00] And then eventually I fizzled out the sports and went all in on music. So then in college I did drum core marching band, the whole Wow.

The whole, my son's

Chris Detzel: in. I was just interested. 'cause he does drums right now. Yeah. And he loves it. And, but e even in high school, he's a freshman and they spend four weeks before school starts. It's

Ruth Atkinson: a lot of times, like eight or nine

Chris Detzel: hours a day, Monday through Friday doing marching band. Yeah. And then for the next three months at least, they go to games.

And then Saturday they have competitions. Saturday

Ruth Atkinson: contests. Oh yeah. Sunday's.

Chris Detzel: The only time that they don't have off Monday through Friday is either before school or after school. And during school. And not only, this is like worse than a full-time job.

Ruth Atkinson: It's, it's training like it's it's dedication.

Yeah.

Chris Detzel: I love it for him, to be honest. I just think, this went from eighth grade to grade and now he's just. He loves it, he's packed. But anyways, I digress a little, but I was very intrigued in what you said yeah. But then you said there's drum line into college and things [00:04:00] like that, so

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah.

And drum core is cool. So it's, it's marching band without wood wince. So it's just brass color guard and percussion. And you audition for these groups and you spend your summer doing it. So it's like the end of May through the first week of August, and you go on tour, you like learn a show, you go to spring training, you learn a show in three weeks, and then you go on tour across the country.

You live on a bus and gym floors, high schools host you. How fun

Chris Detzel: is that?

Ruth Atkinson: And you spend three months just touring, working on your show. And then sometimes you have, shows that night you go, you perform. And then finals are actually in the Indianapolis Colts Stadium, Lucas Oil.

Chris Detzel: Wow.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah.

It's a whole, if you're, if you have not heard of Drum Corps, you should just go on the YouTube and. We'll look it up. It's, and show your son. It's pretty cool.

Chris Detzel: That's exactly, so something for him to aspire to and see if, if he continues on, which I think he will. Yeah.

Anyways, we digress a little bit. Music, I think that's, yeah, I think that's intriguing and I love that you did that and Wow. That sounds like a lot of fun. [00:05:00] Back to running you decided you're gonna do a 10 K. What happened?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, I had fun. It was funny. I wasn't sure my husband came right and it was raining and so he, he stayed in the car.

I was like, stay in the car. I was like, just come out when I'm gonna be done. And I, to be honest, I don't even remember what I told him I was gonna run. I just I didn't know. I was like, just come out. I think I told him like an hour. I was like, just come out at an hour, whatever. And. I had Apple Watch series one.

Yeah. Headphones that plugged into the phone that died, Wow. Just dressed in way too many layers. Yeah. But I ended up running faster than I thought and so I had to go, he was sleeping in the car, I had to go knock on the window, knock. I was like, I'm out the door. Yeah. It was funny. So anyway, on the whole ride home I was like, wow, like that was really cool and I could do better.

And you get bit with the bug so she can do better. Did you run like

Chris Detzel: 40 something minutes or what?

Ruth Atkinson: Oh no, I don't remember, to be honest. It was like nine 30 pace, I think.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Still pretty impressive.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. I had been running, two months at that point. Yeah. Or whatever, so it was like this is fun, this [00:06:00] is cool.

And then I signed up for the cow town half. Wow. The In February. 'cause I was like to push yourself. I did the 10 k, I ran that and then I was like I'm gonna run a marathon. So I ran the, wait, hold on,

Chris Detzel: let's back up. Just a, you're very new to running and you're really quickly getting into some, first race was 10 k and then.

Half. Yeah. Did you train at all? What was kinda your thinking around training for the half marathon?

Ruth Atkinson: I was a new runner, right? Yeah. And I had, went head first into what I should do necessarily. Sure. It was more like I started running with Plano Running club. Love them and. I was like, oh, these people are doing the Cowtown half marathon as well. I'll just come out here, I'll start running a little longer each week. And I really did just kinda, I ran a 10 K, so next, I'll run seven miles. Okay, next weekend I'll run eight miles.

And I showed up. It's logical. A few weekday runs. I tried to be logical about it. Yeah. And I think I was looking back a little bit stupid, a little bit,

Chris Detzel: makes sense. Gung ho we're all dumb,

Ruth Atkinson: Every new [00:07:00] runner right? We you just jump in. Yeah I got myself there, ran it.

And I was like that was fun. How about what's next? And instead, did you make friends

Chris Detzel: with Plano running club folks that ran with you and, yeah. Yeah. So you already get into a community. Absolutely. Not to find them.

Ruth Atkinson: I was really plugged in at the time I was living in Carrollton. And I had just I had, I'm originally from Buffalo, New York, went to college in West Virginia at WVU, met my husband, marching drum corps.

In the summer of 2015, he's from Texas. So then we did two years long distance. And then in 2017 you did, I moved down here and so then 2018, right? That next year was the year. I was like I should, I'll plug myself in, which I got into running. And then from Carrollton, Google, I mean I went on Facebook and was like, run club near me a thing, right?

Yep.

Chris Detzel: Yep.

Ruth Atkinson: They popped up. I went to a Wednesday, Starbucks run that they do in the early morning. 'cause I was teaching, so I had to run early 5:00 AM and I was like, oh, these are my people. They run early. This is [00:08:00] great. Showed up. Shirley, I love Shirley, the leader CI just had her on my podcast,

Chris Detzel: so that's great.

Ruth Atkinson: She's amazing.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: She she welcomes everybody and she was like, oh. Hello. Okay. You look like you belong with this group. Here you go. And I met a few PE girls, chased them around that morning, and again, I was hooked. I was like I'll see y'all tomorrow. I

Chris Detzel: love that. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: Community is huge.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And that, that's why, wanted to stop there a little bit just because I think, a lot of times, people. Want to run with somebody. And it's not always easy to push yourself to go run with people that you don't know at first, that's really what makes you better and get into it.

And then you all of a sudden are hooked. And a lot of times it's because of that community and you learn a lot.

Ruth Atkinson: It really is. It really is. And you learn a lot. Just talking to people who've been doing it longer than you, you learn a lot and you get things that you won't take away with you and you get things that you will, and yeah, it's what.

Really, that group I think kept me running truthfully. Yeah. Like I started on my [00:09:00] own, but then meeting them was like, wow, okay, people really do this. I'm gonna really do this. And then it was, that year when I was decided to train for the marathon that fall. Of 2019 at the same time had started dabbling in wanting to get my personal training certification.

Yeah. Because I just, I loved fitness and so I was working on my NASM while also then training to, to run a marathon. And I think that's what started the maybe I could coach, I was a teacher, so the teacher in me was like, okay, I, and I started diving like head first into, yeah.

Why am I doing what I'm doing? Why is this working? Why does that not work? And all the science behind that. A lot smarter about running that it. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And so the marathon came while you were learning how to run?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Literally nothing,

Chris Detzel: For real by getting cer, potentially CER certified and all that stuff.

But what was that like? And how'd you do?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, it was, it was, there was a learning curve, and I think, looking back, I was too aggressive. I ended up [00:10:00] having little, pesky pains that popped up. And in hindsight it's 'cause I was following a plan that was just too much for how much I had been running up to that point.

But, you don't know what you don't know. And as it went along, I was like, okay, you, I started figuring out why, maybe how I would do it different the next time. Yeah. But. We made it. I made it. I ran three 40.

Chris Detzel: Pretty good marathon first time, which is pretty

Ruth Atkinson: decent. Yeah.

Yeah. I was really happy with it. And bonked like crazy. Of course. I, my fueling was horrible, but I learned a lot most days for

Chris Detzel: most people.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. I learned a lot and yeah, it was, again, I was like, wow, I love running. Yeah, it confirmed even after

Chris Detzel: bonking and feeling that way.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. I think it, it made me, want to learn more, it made me say okay why, how do I do better? And sprung, instead of being a personal trainer on the side of teaching, it turned into, okay. I think the running thing is actually where that passion is gonna end up going.

Chris Detzel: So how did you [00:11:00] train for that first marathon? Knowing a little bit more, but still learning.

Yeah. What did that look like? Do you remember?

Ruth Atkinson: Speaking of community, right? We had then moved from Carrollton up to Little Elm that during that summer. And so I started running with Frisco Running club because it was closer for me from, from my house. And they were, I was, I just jumped into a training plan that they were doing with the goal of the Fort Worth marathon in the fall.

I was like, oh, perfect. And so eager me. Did the plan that went up to 50 miles a week, right? Yeah. To not have done that. Not in my first year of running.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: But as I started learning more, and the one time that I, my knee started bothering me and I was like, okay, this is, three workouts a week is way too aggressive for me.

50 miles a week is too aggressive. It just, it panned, it all worked out. I got there, but then I, I was smarter going forward.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. It's funny you say, and it seems to be true, is I remember my wife telling me, look, when you first start out, your body really has to adjust and this could take [00:12:00] years really to Yeah.

To really build up, your body to run all these miles and, look, I've talked to people that have run 80 miles, 90, a hundred whatever a week, but when you're first running, like you've gotta ease into that, your buddies and

Ruth Atkinson: that, that happens over years, right? Yeah.

And I have some athletes sometimes that, let's say you come to me and you are an endurance athlete. Let's say you're a cyclist, right? And you have the aerobic capacity to train for 10 hours a week, but you have only run five miles a week 'cause you've been biking and swimming or whatever like your.

Physical body, like the mechanical stress of running also takes time to adapt. It's not that you're not fit enough to do it, per se. But the mechanical adaptation takes a long time. And usually you feel good until you feel bad. Exactly. And I think, a lot of people, they're like, I'm feeling great two months in, and then month three comes and you're like, oh, I'm broken, exhausted, and so it's just, there's a whole lot that comes with it. And I learned a lot. Then obviously I learned about science and was [00:13:00] like, and so obviously now, if someone's coming to me as a first time marathoner, we are depending on their background Of course. Yeah. But we're likely not doing three workouts a week and running 50 miles unless they are really experienced already in running.

Yeah.

Chris Detzel: No, that makes sense. And I wanna dive more into that in a bit, but

Ruth Atkinson: yeah,

Chris Detzel: so you get your first marathon done in 2019, COVID I know is gonna about to hit what happened around that time.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. I stayed running. I remember I actually got in. I got into the Chicago lottery at some point, but then actually was injured for that.

So deferred to 2022. What did I do in 2020? I just kept running.

Yeah.

Oh, and then actually McCurdy had a micro marathon in March of 2021. Okay. That was put on in that same area of Fort Worth. So it was like 50 people. Really small to, be safe on the tail end of [00:14:00] COVID. So I ran that marathon in early 2021.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And how'd you find out about it? Would you just Google it?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, I wasn't, I had run with people who were coached by someone at McCurdy. It was right before I started getting coached through McCurdy. Got it.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Ruth Atkinson: So it was oh, McCurdy exists. And then I, ended up getting coached then there.

Chris Detzel: So you were coached by them for a while?

Ruth Atkinson: Yes. Okay. Coach Michelle was my coach for two years, two and a half years before I was then brought on as a coach also. And now James McCurdy is my coach.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. That's awesome.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. All so how'd you do in that marathon? Did you do a little bit better and, Yeah.

Feel better, all that kind of stuff? What?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. I ran, I think it was like a six minute pr. Okay. I ran a 3 34. I wanted to run a three 30 at the time. The Boston time, of course, was, like three 30 for my age group, so I was hoping to run that, but, it was fine. I ran a 3 34 and yeah, it was fine.

It was a looped course. It was like nine [00:15:00] loops of two point something miles.

Chris Detzel: Did you ever get bored?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. I remember the seventh loop. I saw my husband the seventh time and I saw the car and I was like, it would be really easy to just be done.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: But I, I finished it out. It felt uneventful.

I'm a real big fan of big races. Yeah. I feed off crowd energy a lot. Yeah. And so that, it was just fine. I felt like I showed up, did a long run and left a thing.

Chris Detzel: What's your favorite marathon then? I'm interested in.

Ruth Atkinson: I think so far Chicago still has my heart. Okay. I ran Chicago in 2022 and I loved it.

From the start to the finish I had a ball. Yeah. Favorite marathon for sure. What made that

Chris Detzel: so special?

Ruth Atkinson: Just I don't know. Just the energy. There's something about the energy of a really big race. I like that energy. I know some people it's too much. Yeah. But I loved like having sound happening at me for 26 miles.

I really [00:16:00] like not hearing myself free. That's pretty funny. Yeah. I like not hearing myself. I like not hearing like the super shoes on the pavement. Like I want bells and voices and that's what world majors are like, so

Chris Detzel: they are, yeah. Yeah,

Ruth Atkinson: it was really fun and I had a good day and yeah, it was good.

I liked it.

Chris Detzel: So what has been your best marathon so far?

Ruth Atkinson: It was Eugene last year a few months before I got pregnant early Eugene 2024 in April.

Chris Detzel: Okay. How'd you do?

Ruth Atkinson: I did great. I ran a 3 21.

Chris Detzel: Nice.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: That's exciting.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Good progression.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. Have you had a chance to run Boston yet or

Ruth Atkinson: so?

No because I. My, I had my baby April 12th of this year, so I used, yeah, I used the pregnancy. They have a pregnancy deferral policy, thankfully.

Chris Detzel: That's great. Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: So I'll run this upcoming April instead.

Chris Detzel: I'll be there. My wife's she'll be at her 13th Boston Marathon in a row, and I have a lot of friends there, so maybe I'll [00:17:00] say hello if I get to see you.

Yeah. Running

Ruth Atkinson: to you. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. What I'm doing now this year probably is I'll. Go do some quick hit videos and things like that, post it on Instagram and things like that. So just 'cause I know a lot of people, and it'd be fun to get, Pegasus will be there, and other big running groups, within the Dallas Fort Worth area.

So it'd be fun to do, I

think.

Yeah. So yeah, that'd be fun. You have Boston then coming up, so is that what's coming up for you in the near kinda Yeah, that's all that's

Ruth Atkinson: on my radar. I ended up having a urgent C-section, so my recovery has been. You know it, I took the full eight weeks before I even tried run walking and it was really like 12 weeks before I could jog for 30 minutes again.

So it's been a slowish recovery, but I'm being methodical about it, trying to come back, smart, doing things the right way. Strong for do not

Chris Detzel: your teacher folks.

Ruth Atkinson: For longevity. Yeah. I'm gonna do exactly what I would tell someone. Yeah. That I'm coaching to do, I'm gonna do what I preach.

So it's been good. I actually just ran my first 5K today. [00:18:00]

Chris Detzel: Oh yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: Postpartum. Yeah. It was probably, one of my slowest in a couple years, but that's where, it's where you start. I'm just excited to I'll run a few local five Ks and then really train for Boston. That's the goal.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. That's awesome. I like the slow, methodical. Can you talk a little bit about, being a new parent and congratulations. Yeah. That's really awesome and thanks. The before and after, is there kinda a big difference? I'm sure yeah. There's watching the baby and I saw some of your Instagrams where you're putting the baby kind of, let lay down, but then you're running and then coming back.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's it's hard.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: And there's different levels of hard depending on, who you are and your life circumstance and if your partner's able to be home at work, or not working from home. And I'm thankful that my husband does work from home.

Makes it easier to, at least have a little bit of me time to fit things in. But it's, I thought, I always preach, one of the things I preach to athletes is flexible consistency. I would rather you be really flexible with your schedule, but stay [00:19:00] consistent than try to be perfect and end up being really inconsistent.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Ruth Atkinson: I thought I was good at that before. And I was, yeah. But this is a whole new level of you, I can't make plans.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: Like my plans are whatever the baby needs comes first. Yeah. Regardless of what I thought I was gonna do. And I think that's like the hardest thing, right? Like I like running workouts on Tuesday mornings.

I love it. I love going to track Tuesdays with Frisco, running club friends and some of my athletes. But you know what? If child needs to eat and it's 4:40 AM. I'm not leaving the house. Yeah. Because I can't, and it's just stuff like that where I'm constantly, oh, I don't have 75 minutes, but I do have 55, so I'll cut off the warmup mile.

And make it one, it's constantly adapting. Yeah. And I think that's the biggest. Change is being okay with having it be just good enough. Good enough, has to be good enough.

Chris Detzel: And you're a new parent, right? It's not like you've had kids [00:20:00] before

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. It's,

Chris Detzel: everything's new and and I'm sure, that's a big opportunity there.

But that's awesome though. Look, babies are. They're hard, yeah. And then, now it's about their convenience, because not yours anymore.

Yeah. But yeah, how's the body holding up? Is that, has that been a opportunity for you?

Or what's I know you mentioned that, you're slowly taking it, but your first 5K, did you, did your body fill it or did you like, oh, it felt decent.

Ruth Atkinson: Truthfully, the, I think first of all, I was really fortunate to have a pregnancy that allowed me to run through my pregnancy.

Not everybody gets that opportunity, so I was fortunate I think that I was running all the way up until I had him, so that. When I started back again, even though I had to take quite a bit of time off, I think my body had already it had been adapting. Yeah. As I went, I felt okay today truthfully, that my C-section is the thing that gives me the most trouble.

It's not like painful it, there's adhesions to some muscles in that area and it's just something I'm [00:21:00] constantly trying to work on and yeah. Yeah. The core strength thing.

Chris Detzel: So important, isn't it

Ruth Atkinson: so important? And it's been, it's hard. I'm still not back to, how I felt before being pregnant.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. How long has it, how long has it been since you had your baby? Six months postpartum. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Wow. Still super small.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, he's tiny. Cannot crawl, can just roll over.

Chris Detzel: It's crazy how much they learn just from, and I say this all the time, from zero to two or three, whether, they learn to crawl, they learn to walk, they learn all kinds of stuff, starting to talk.

From, there's nothing to, eating with a spoon and it's crazy. Yeah. It's, how much you can learn. It's rapid.

Ruth Atkinson: Just if we can learn

Chris Detzel: that fast,

Ruth Atkinson: I know I could learn a new skill every day. Could you imagine?

Chris Detzel: No it's like a miracle. You know how much it's. They learned in just so fast.

That's awesome. I'm super excited for you, thank you. I know it's always a challenge, especially hardcore runners and plus you have a job and then you're coaching and you're doing a lot of stuff.

Ruth Atkinson: [00:22:00] Yes. Yeah, there's, yeah it's a lot, and we, he's home with us, so Yeah.

It's like full-time mom job plus, milk maker plus coaching plus, yeah. It's three jobs rolled into one, I feel like. But it's good. And obviously, we love him and we've been doing some stroller runs now that the weather is better and good.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: It's good. Yeah, it's good.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it's, I know this guy he runs with now, his kids are getting a little older now, but he's run with stroll the stroller for the last few years with his kids.

And this guy's really fast. He's running 19 minute mile five Ks with his kids and he's just soloing along and I'm like, dude, it's awesome. It's so crazy. Yeah, it's awesome. It's doable and it's hard, he was saying, look, this is not easy. This is really hard,

Ruth Atkinson: yeah. No, it's, sometimes I see it.

Chris Detzel: As doubles two, the doubles. I know

Ruth Atkinson: it's in, it's impressive. I, the other day I went out for the first time and it was like pretty windy and man, that thing is like a parachute. I was like, oh my gosh.

Chris Detzel: How's the baby like it,

Ruth Atkinson: He loves it right now.

He, he just looks around and usually falls [00:23:00] asleep, so I try to time it for, one of his shorter, 30 minute naps. We'll go out for a, like an hour run and he will check out the trees and fall asleep and, for now that's working, yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Tomorrow's a different story, but we'll see.

Yep.

Ruth Atkinson: Today it's still good.

Chris Detzel: Things changed so rapidly, like we talked about. So you got into this marathon running and you did the McCurdy trained marathon or mini whatever it was for 50 people. Yep. But then you somehow got into coaching what? Or you had somebody coach you and you must have really liked it, right?

In the midst of getting certified or already had got certified in different things. What does that look like?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, so I, I was teaching full-time still. I ended up finishing my personal training certification. I actually had a couple friends who I was doing that on the side with for $5 a month just to like.

Practice using what I learned. Of course, five books a month. And then and I had started reading the Jack Daniels book. Yeah. Because, McCurdy used vdot for Trading. So I was like, oh, I'll just, I'll read his book. [00:24:00] And then I had asked my coach about certifications for the running thing and the VDOT certification aligned with, I was doing and the book I had been reading anyway. So I was like, oh, perfect. So did that, got that. And then, I just tried soaking up as much science as I could. And then a friend who was doing the personal training was like, Hey, I know you got your running thing now. Can you do running for me too?

And I was like, yeah, sure. Loved it. Did more than programming the strength stuff. So I was like, okay. This is the path that I, yeah. Am going down. So yeah, it started as five Friends, which morphed into some friends of theirs that were strangers to me, which morphed into me doing more with my Instagram, which morphed into some local friends seeing that I'm coaching.

It all morphs into itself. Long story short, fast forward three. And I, had enough confidence that I wanted to leave teaching full-time and pursue the run coaching [00:25:00] full-time instead.

Chris Detzel: Really?

Ruth Atkinson: Okay. And so that, I ended up leaving, I left teaching and that summer joined McCurdy as a coach and went all in.

And here we are still all in.

Chris Detzel: So I still have questions. Sorry.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, that's okay.

Chris Detzel: So you joined them? How did that happen? Like you said, Hey, I want, I've been doing these things, oh, yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: My, my coach Michelle, she knew that I was coaching and so I, I share a lot on social media of what my athletes are doing on my stories especially.

And James was looking for coaches to come on, 'cause McCurdy was growing and, you need a coach. And so Michelle so thankful for her. She recommended. James talked to me. So then James and I hopped on a call, decided it would be a good fit and that the rest is history. So the athletes I were coaching, brought them into McCurdy and then, yeah, here we are.

It's been awesome. So you

Chris Detzel: do this full-time you know how many I do

Ruth Atkinson: this Fulltime.

Chris Detzel: Wow. KTI trained is pretty hardcore, you know about [00:26:00] this sounds.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, we're, I love it. We're serious. It's a great community. We talked about community earlier. Yeah. McCurdy trained really is James makes an effort to make sure that athletes feel comfortable talking to him, knowing him.

He's been hosting a few, like training concept talks for all of the athletes of all of the coaches. It really is we try to make it a community. Yeah. My athletes and I have our own discord that we have our own like sub community and it's a lot of fun and I think, coaching is so much, I think Kendall talked about this with you and yeah.

I've talked about it with her. It's so much not the science. Anybody, especially now, can go into chat GPT and say, here's what I do currently. Here's my history. Here's what I wanna do. Help me and the science will pop up, but you still can't get. What's your life like? Are you a mom? Are you a dad?

What's your workout like? You can't get the day, here's what happened today. What should I do to change tomorrow? You can't get that from a computer, and that's what I've fallen in [00:27:00] love with. That's the teaching part in me. Like I want people to know the why. I want them to understand why we're programming what we are, and that's what McCurdy believes too. Everyone deserves a chance to know why. Train hard. Yeah. Find their best. Yeah. Anyway, it's

Chris Detzel: the intimacy of a person talking and talking about listening to kinda your needs and what you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to do. Then saying, Hey, try this, and then, oh, that didn't work.

Let's try this and this, and, just those conversations and that,

yeah.

One-to-one kind of thing. I agree. There's automated things out there to get you Yeah. Like Chate Cloud, whatever, but. It's not the same. No.

Ruth Atkinson: To have hands-on

Chris Detzel: coaching, it's

Ruth Atkinson: just, it's not, and everyone is so individual with an individual life, an individual stress.

Like you can't, I, all that time, use an example, I had two athletes around the same time, both run a 3 0 3 marathon and one of them was running 45 miles a week, and one of them was running 60 miles a week.

Yeah.

[00:28:00] And their workouts look different. Their long runs look different.

'cause they're different people that, that's right. And they came to it from a different space, but they ended up at the same result. And that is, is the epitome of what run coaching is. It's meeting you where you are in your circumstance and figuring out how to best serve you in that way,

Chris Detzel: I was talking to this woman, I kinda mentioned this before, I don't have think it's before the podcast we get on, but that ran with McCurdy trained and ran, I think one of the, their marathons. And she was just talking very highly of that group and the coaching and everything else. And I think she's coached by them.

And so that was the first time I heard of them, and I think I misspelled McCurdy. And so I think James reached out to me directly, so that was cool.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, James is great.

Chris Detzel: No big deal

Ruth Atkinson: but a big deal.

Chris Detzel: But yeah, it is, he goes, people do it all the time, but I, I changed it, but still, I think, I've heard, and since then I've heard of you guys and some really good things.

And it seems like you guys, and I know you coach probably people's been doing all kinds of different, types of [00:29:00] paces and things like that. But you have a really core group running three hours and under. Or getting very close to that, so you know. Oh yeah. The training's gotta be pretty, not intense, but really focused.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, I think the biggest thing, everyone, the concepts that apply to elite runners really apply to everybody. And I think, everyone deserves that level of care. Everyone deserves that level of, looking at what you're doing and asking questions. It doesn't matter.

Someone's five hour marathon is the same for them as someone's two 30 marathon, right? There are genetics, there are life circumstances, whatever it is. And helping folks realize like PACE doesn't, I really could care less what your, what you run pace wise. I care about how that felt. I care about how you're feeling and I care about.

The goals that you have and getting you to your best, whatever that is. And that really is the philosophy at McCurdy. Sure. Some folks are fast. Yeah. And they sign up with [00:30:00] us and they get faster. Some folks are fast relative to themselves and sign up with us and get faster. So it's actually cool.

Fast is relative,

Fast is relative. It always is. And we have a a spreadsheet. That we, share among coaches and we keep track of everybody, who runs a marathon. And it is so cool to see from two whatever elite who, tab beo ran at place, seventh at the Olympics, all the way to seven hours.

And we serve every single one of those people in the same way. And it is, I love it. I love it. I think it's so cool.

Chris Detzel: I love that. It's funny because somewhat relatable is I was talking to this woman that was on the podcast and, she's about done phenomenal things, right?

She's run like a two 50 marathon and now she has four kids and after twins, it's been a really hard go for her, yeah. And it was like, look, you just had twins. Yeah. Like your body is gonna have to adjust. It's not all of a sudden you're just gonna run a two 50 again.

And I was like, you've done amazing things. As a matter of fact, 99% of the people [00:31:00] probably haven't even got even close to what you can do. And right now it's just a journey of. Maybe getting back there, maybe not. But look, we're, none of us are, for the most part, except for the one you just mentioned are gonna be pro athletes, and I understand that we wanna get better and do better and I'm the same way. I go, I'm 50 years old and I just PRD in a half marathon. And so that was super exciting to me. Yeah. But, that's being 50 is, I'm not gonna be able to pr much. Longer, maybe a couple more, who knows, but eventually time does catch up to you and so I've gotta be realistic.

And let's do this for our health and let's do this for fun and not beat ourself up over not hitting these times. Let's set goals that, yeah, are accomplishable and potential and not saying, not that you can't do it again, but it's okay. You.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, time is, we're where we're today. I always ask athletes, usually before a big race or after, but I give them the homework in their race plan of what are you gonna be proud of?

That is not a time on a clock. What did you get better at this trading cycle? That has nothing to do with how race day goes. Because ultimately, look, [00:32:00] people ask about times, of course, but maybe someone's goal was. To run a marathon after, not for six years. Maybe someone's goal was to run a half marathon and negative split.

Who cares what the end time was? Love it. There's all these things that can happen that are goals, that have nothing to do with, how fast did you run? Yes. Okay, great. But ultimately that's not why, right? Yeah. Most of us aren't out here getting paid for running some time.

We're out here because we wanna, most of us are not. We, no, and we, we, I think the journey to finding your best as a runner often coincides with the journey to just finding your best period. Yeah. And so much of running goes back into life, and life goes back into running because they do they rely on each other often.

And I. It's just, it's a philosophy I guess, that I have. If we're talking about coaching philosophy, like everyone can find your best, whether you're 15 years old, whether you're 70, you can find your best at whatever stage you're in. I think that's so important.

Chris Detzel: Can you talk a little bit about, [00:33:00] the philosophy specifically with McCurdy trained, and then just how you go about maybe training some athletes and things, I think folks would be interested in.

Ruth Atkinson: What do you mean? Like, how, one is,

Chris Detzel: I think you mentioned, philosophy of, hey, no matter who you are, whatever goals you are, we, we will treat you the same. Yeah. And then how do you go about, also maybe putting together a plan or what's the philosophy behind the plan?

What is something, it could be a little bit different for each person. I get that. But Yeah. Is there a spec, a core kind of belief in thinking that they, that you guys have? Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: We talked about it. It really is, okay what's your goal for this season of life?

Where are you coming from? What is your capacity? Where you are, and how do we fit in? Training concepts to what you're doing. I think, most recently our, we've, it's really, it feels simple, but are you sleeping well? Are you eating food and hydrating and are you, what

Chris Detzel: kind of food

Ruth Atkinson: are you fueling your workouts?

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: And are you eating [00:34:00] enough carbohydrates? The vast majority of people that I. Ask, what'd you have to eat all day yesterday? Before a long run? How did you fuel this morning? Most conversations are you need more.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: And checking those boxes and making sure that we're not just giving folks a training plan.

We're giving folks communication daily. We're giving folks feedback. We're giving folks nutri concepts. We're making sure that we're getting blood work checked so that our iron, I saw, that saw, say vitamin D is, where it needs to be. I don't, I'm not gonna put someone through a high stress training regimen if your vitamin D is.

35. Yeah. Because you're gonna get a stress fracture. I'm just not gonna do that. Interesting. So there's all of these things behind just, can you run three by 10 minutes at threshold? Sure. And so I think that's it. It's approaching the whole athlete from a whole person perspective and also a whole training perspective.

Not just, here are the runs you need to do.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I think I like that. 'cause I think it is important when you [00:35:00] look at nutrition. Of course I'm sure that, I don't know what you guys do to help people with that, but at least you can give 'em some ideas. I'm not saying you guys aren't nutritionist or dieticians.

No. We're not a sports

Ruth Atkinson: rd. Yeah. And we'll, if someone needs like some real one-on-one work in that area, yeah, of course. Then we refer out. But just some basic concepts of, are you eating three fists of carb to one fist of protein on the days that you're carb loading or. When you're running this workout, if you're not taking in at least 60 to 90 grams per hour and you're running a marathon paced effort, something in your long run, you are under fueling that long run.

Yeah, you're not gonna see your full potential. You're not gonna recover as well. Just some things like that, or hey. What did you have to drink during that run? Nothing for 10 miles. Holy nuts. Yeah, dear goodness, right? Let's talk about that. What do you need? Oh you cramped. Okay. Is that a strength issue in the muscle?

Is that an electrolyte issue? It's its. And I would hope that's how all run coaches operate, but it really is, it's like [00:36:00] decoding puzzles and asking, learning to ask the right questions to then help further than just, I hit this time or I didn't in a workout. It's about how did you feel?

How did you fuel, how are you recovering? Yeah, it's the whole package.

Chris Detzel: I have a, to me an interesting question because, my wife is 50, for example, and and you know when women hit 45. Plus, the bodies go through a different phase. You think of pregnancy, and then there's that phase that you know, you've gone through.

There's also menopause and those kinds of things. Do you train or just interested in how you might look at that because it is, there's a huge opportunity there. Because life changes then too. Yeah. For women.

Ruth Atkinson: It does. And I actually have, I have a group of women.

There's probably four or five now that I've connected with each other.

Because empathetically, I have not experienced that. Yeah. I will at some point. But I haven't felt what that feels like yet. And there are some great articles, podcasts out there. I'd have to go back and find them to name them [00:37:00] specifically.

Yeah. I've sent them those and we just, a lot of it is like running at the beginning of pregnancy where like your hormones are doing crazy things. You might be up at night 'cause you've had a hot flash, and then the next day your energy is zapped. Like the perimenopause menopause thing is crazy.

So it's still, it's real. It's real. It's not like you made this up in your head. It's a very real physical thing that happens. And so understanding that. That could be a question to ask an athlete of the age where that could be happening, right? Let's make sure we're getting our hormone levels checked.

Let's make sure we're getting our blood work checked, and then let's tweak your training. Make sure we're lifting weights right. The older women get, especially like we need to lift heavy weights.

Chris Detzel: Love that you said that.

Ruth Atkinson: And so just, asking questions like that, making sure that we're staying on top of it.

And, a couple of my athletes were running five days a week. Why don't we take a day out

Chris Detzel: Yep.

Ruth Atkinson: At a strength day, and keep strides at the end of every run just to make sure that we're, firing those fast twitch muscles on a more consistent [00:38:00] basis that, it's just an example.

And just trying to, again, meet each person, where they're at, how they're feeling, and tweak as needed.

Chris Detzel: I would say and I appreciate you saying that and giving some guidance there. And I probably should ask more questions like that I think, because I think that women in general have a hard time finding some of those answers and maybe might not wanna reach out to other to, so I think it's important that we talk about that.

But the other thing is that as you kinda look at. Just, if I look at folks like completely sloths, a lot of those guys are mostly in their thirties gals, right? Some are early forties and maybe a little bit, but as you get older, as an athlete, I'm 50 and hey, look, I'm still PR and in half marathons.

But I feel it on my body a lot more. And over the years, I've had to lower my mileage rather than. Do more. And that's why I don't really do marathons. 'cause over the years it's I don't really wanna run 50 to 60 miles a week. I just, my body doesn't, I get injured pretty easily and that could be doing [00:39:00] due to other things, it's just not that fun to get injured.

'cause then you can't run that all. And so is there any guidance that you would say, and it's probably the strength thing, I do think it's important I don't do it enough that you would say to runners that are 40 plus 50?

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. I would say, first of all, don't assume that your best days are over.

Yeah, for sure. Don't assume that love and stay curious. Stay curious. What worked for you when you were 30? You're right. May not work for you when you're 55, but it doesn't mean that there's not a way of training that does work for you. And so staying open-minded I had a woman who's 56 years old, run a marathon PR and it's, I think she can be even faster, truthfully, and so it's getting smart. It's can we cross train instead of running six days a week, maybe we can run four.

Yeah. And

we can add two days of non-impact. Fitness and just stay open-minded, stay curious, don't assume anything. Yeah. And think of yourself like an experiment. Be optimistic, be [00:40:00] positive.

And definitely lift some ways. I think if that was my like biggest piece of advice, it would be continue to fuel well and don't be afraid to lift heavy.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: In addition to, tweaking your runs. But

Chris Detzel: it's funny that you say that. My wife is, for the last three years or so, she hired a coach for the two years, three years ago.

And then for two years she had a strength coach. She was like, she had a running coach, but then a strength coach as well. And, like it's, you can see the difference, like in her. Yeah. She's got muscles all in her back and arms and everything. It was like, let's keep doing that.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: But I think it's awesome. Being a

Ruth Atkinson: durable runner is important. Yeah. And I think, when you're younger, you can get away with. Not doing as much strength training, you could get away with it, but it shows up eventually. I always say the body keeps score, whether that's a poor week of sleep or years of under fueling or years of maybe lacking in, doing some, addressing some strength things.

At some point the body keeps score. Yeah, I encourage [00:41:00] everyone to. Do some research on strength for running. It's a single leg sport, right? You are never on both feet at once, so lots of single leg. That's

true

strength, and you are, some of those muscles are accepting up to six times your body weight every time you land over and over.

So when you think about it like that, if you're not lifting any weights ever, or you're holding five pound dumbbells, that's what running is. Running is high rep. Low weight, that's what you're doing. So in this, in the gym, even two times a week, 20 minutes, that's what I tell athletes, it doesn't take much.

It could be 40 minutes a week total of just picking up something pretty heavy and yeah, putting it back down on one leg. We'll do you good.

Chris Detzel: So smart. I love that. When you look at switching gears just a little to new runners, whatever age, but what are some things that you tell them in the beginning, Hey, I'm gonna go run a marathon, and you know that's a big feat.

Ruth Atkinson: Yeah, it is. It's a huge feat. First of all, let's decide on a timeline. That is smart and doable without risking injury. [00:42:00] Second of all, let's not set a time goal. Let's have your goal be run a marathon.

Chris Detzel: You're just gonna be your PR anyways. It's your

Ruth Atkinson: PR no matter what. And I love, for any level athlete, I love saying let's just, let's get as fit as you possibly can be for that event on that day that you've chosen.

And then. When we're three weeks out and we're talking about taper, let's take a look at your workouts and decide on how we're gonna pace the thing. Yeah. Because someone who's new to running could be a very gifted runner.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: And we could build slowly and method and they might be able to set a pretty ambitious goal.

Sure. For their first marathon. Someone else, might not necessarily, they could be, new to sports in general, period. Yeah. Someone who's had a history of soccer. Is gonna adapt much differently than somebody who's never played a sport and decides to start running. So not not judging yourself for how fast or slow you are, but just showing up every day.

Again, staying curious. I love that. What can I [00:43:00] do by race day? Yeah. Then getting to race day and whatever that is, then it is executing where you're at.

Chris Detzel: It, I, so I've run, I've been running for a long time, and some of the folks that come in and, maybe they're half marathon runners or they've run, in.

College or whatever. And and they, they have talent, right? And they have yeah, I'm gonna go run a marathon and my, and I'm gonna qualify for Boston. I was like I was like I'm sure that's gonna happen. I have no doubt. I was like, just, but be realistic because you never ran a marathon and a marathon is a long ways.

And, you could be running fif those first 15, 20 miles and you're just killing it. But you don't know what's gonna happen at mile 20, 21, 22, whatever. It's just let's, most people, let's just, some people do qualify for their first time, but it's not that, it's not that often,

Ruth Atkinson: yeah. And I think if you're gonna run a marathon, I'm hoping that you're doing it because you wanna run a marathon, not because you're trying to qualify for a race or run a time. I'm hoping you're doing it because you want to just. Run a marathon [00:44:00] period. And also, I think people forget too, like the fueling piece

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ruth Atkinson: Matters a lot. Hundred percent. And if you've been running half marathons right? And you're a really fast half marathoner, let's say you're a 65 minute half marathoner, right? You're like elite half marathoner. It's really fast. You still need to learn how to fuel Yeah. For a marathon. And, there's a gut training piece.

There's just a whole lot that comes with what does it take to race. That if you just haven't, if you haven't trained for it or done that type of thing before, is new no matter who you are, no matter how long you've been running. So it's important to realize that, and I think, with runners who haven't run a marathon and it's their first one, I think that's one of the biggest changes for a lot of folks.

If you've been running 40 miles a week, your mileage actually might not go up that much aside from your long run, but how you fuel that long run. And understanding marathon concepts, it's new territory. New charity. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: I've talked to people that are like, yeah, I took [00:45:00] maybe one or two goos during a marathon race.

And I'm like, that's probably not enough. Like I'm not sure if

Ruth Atkinson: i'm like but I did it like, you have left a lot on the table. Course you did then. Like you've left a lot on the table. And that's what I tell people folks, 16 mile, 18 mile long run that takes them two and a half hours.

Yeah. I had one gel. I'm glad you can. Do that. With one gel. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying it's not optimal. That's right. You're not training yourself for race day because on when you're eight weeks out from a marathon. That's the time. Does this fuel work for me? Yeah. How does it feel to take a gel at mile 16?

If you're running 17 miles and you're about to take a gel at 16, please take it. You're gonna see how your stomach reacts. It's gonna be carbs that start your recovery when you're done. There's no harm. You can't over, you're not gonna over fuel. Yeah. I promise you're not gonna over fuel.

And so even that as a concept with runners new to the marathon, I think is so important. Making sure that we. Setting ourselves up for race day [00:46:00] success. Not ignoring things because we can ignore them, right? It's no. How can I make this a dress rehearsal? Every weekend for my big day.

Chris Detzel: We covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that you were like, man, he should have asked this thing about me, or about coaching or whatever that I didn't ask or any kind of words of wisdom or? There.

Ruth Atkinson: I think we covered a lot. Honestly. I appreciate you having on, I, I had a good time talking if anyone has about anything that we talked about on this episode.

Come my way. If I have to leave anyone with anything, it's don't ever count yourself out. And don't be afraid to set big goals no matter how fast or slow you think you are, or how long you have or haven't been running. Everyone deserves a chance to find their best.

Chris Detzel: And I think a lot, people like to compare themselves to others and it's I'm not as fast as or I can't do this.

I'm slow. Who cares? You know what? They're doing it, that's great because you know they're

Ruth Atkinson: them and you are you. Yeah. And their [00:47:00] life is theirs. And yours is yours. And ultimately it's you. It's you and that, that's it. So let's build each other up. Like we can all sit in the same room. We can all be proud of each other.

Doesn't. It doesn't cost you anything to be happy for somebody else and to be proud of yourself. It costs nothing. I love that. Let's lift one another up. If you're in DFW area, yeah. Some people are gonna be faster than you always. Some people are gonna be slower than you always. There's always people faster and slower.

Chris Detzel: Always.

Ruth Atkinson: This is a fact, right? So we work on ourselves, we set goals that are ambitious for ourselves and we stay curious. That's my favorite thing to say.

Chris Detzel: I love that. Ruth, this has been really great. Really appreciate you coming on. And to our listeners, thanks so much for coming on to DFW Running Talk and listening to us.

Once again, please make sure to rate and review us and also go to DFW running talk dot sub stack.com and get to get our newsletter and subscribe there. Until next time, Ruth, thanks so much for coming.

Ruth Atkinson: Thank you.

Appreciate it.