Michael Jackson's Last Day Was Andy's First: A Six Star Marathon Journey

DFW Running Talk: Andy Wheatcroft
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Deel, so let's get started.

All right. Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we have special guest Andy Crot. Is it Craft Wheat Craft? Lemme redo it. Wheat Craft. Close enough. Yeah. Andy Wheat Craft. Andy, how are you? I am great, thanks. I glad to glad to see you. Yeah, it's good to see you, man. And you just stepped back from a really cool marathon, Tokyo, so we'll talk about that.

Here in a minute. You've done all kinds of different things, so that's pretty cool. So really, I wanted to get to know you a little bit today, talk, talk a little bit about your kind of running journey, how you got into running, why you started to run, all that kind of stuff. And then we'll get back into the six major world majors that, that you've already done and completed.

That's super exciting. But first. Let's go back.

Andy Wheatcroft: Sure. Although I'm what you might call a mature runner, hence the gray hair, my running. That's true. [00:01:00] Yeah. Thanks a bunch. My running journey doesn't actually go that far. So for me, when I was growing up in the uk I used to play more rugby and cricket in my school, and running was always a punishment, so it was something to be avoided at all costs.

And so I, I eventually started running, I wanna say about 14 years ago. O over in the uk. And so for me, there was, it was probably about the fifth time in my life that I tried to run. I tried to, I it always fizzled after two or three weeks for whatever reason. And I just happened to have th three really strong motivators.

One was we just had our second child, a son who was two years old. I was pretty overweight back then. I was 50 pounds overweight. Wow. Yeah, I used to have a goatee beard that I thought used to hide my double chin. It didn't, but find more

Chris Detzel: But it didn't hide the other

Andy Wheatcroft: stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. So I got two sons. By that time I was overweight. My father died suddenly with a heart attack age, 60, like weeks after he retired which [00:02:00] was a significant shock to the system. That's terrible, if you like, and it was lifestyle derived osis. And and at the same time. I was thinking about starting to run.

I had another attempt and all of these things get, came together to get me running. And then my eldest son, sorry, was seven, came back from school and he told me that one of his little buddies had brain cancer and needed proton therapy in the us. Apparently there was only one machine in the world that was able to save him, and it was in Detroit or somewhere.

And so I somehow volunteered to raise money at a 5K and that, that was one of the things that really. Help me stay motivated initially. And so yeah so I started running and it was awful. I could run up hundred feet. Yeah I could run a hundred feet and I was throwing up by the side of the road.

I had a throwing out that's pretty harsh. You just jog a little bit and you throw up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lungs burning. Legs burning. Geez. I was so unfit. It wasn't even funny

Chris Detzel: how times have changed. It's crazy to hear the story.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. I'm I'm no athlete. I think I'm more about mental toughness than being an [00:03:00] actual athlete, but I had this.

2.1 mile circuit that, that I used to measure how many times I stopped and walked. And after about 2, 2, 3 months I eventually ran the whole way around it and that was pretty cool. It was the I used to run past a park with a bunch of teenagers in there and because it was in England, I also used to get some sarcastic abuse the movie Ron Fat Boy Ron was on in the cinemas at the time to date it.

Which, which was a favorite thing. And then the day that I ran 2.1 miles without stopping, one of them shouted, Michael Jackson's dead. And I remember thinking at the time that, that's an interesting turn of abuse. And this was in the days before internet. And I about, I. I dunno. Quarter of a mile later, I walked into my house and my wife said, you'll never guess what?

And I said, yeah, Michael Jackson's died. Yeah. And she said, how'd you know that? My friends in the park told me. So I became a run of the day. My friends Michael Jackson died. Wow. Yeah. And that was a precursor to my 5K. A few months later I signed up to a 10 K and then a few months after that, I got signed up to a half marathon all the [00:04:00] time, raising money for various charities.

And then, there was a children's charity that my company sponsored at the time in the uk had places at the London Marathon. Which was about five months later. And so I got one of those places, and again, it was a charitable spot, so I ended up raising, I don't know, 20 grand or so for to get into London.

That's quite a bit of money to just raise. Yeah. My goal is 5K but apparently I'm really annoying and I'm not afraid to ask people for money, so it, yeah, it worked out really well.

Chris Detzel: If you have some I'll take it. No, I'm just kidding.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah, so I, I really just motivated myself through a series of escalating distances and in the space of a year and a half I was ready to run London.

And that's funny

Chris Detzel: though. Is, that, is, that's an awesome story. And I have somewhat of a, I would say similar, but the reason I started running 11, 12, 13 years ago was I was a little bit overweight and every single day I decided I was gonna jog a little one mile until I can start running a mile.

And then I started running [00:05:00] 5K, 10 K, et cetera. And then, eventually I lost 25 pounds in four or five months, yeah. It was quick and it was easy. I say easy but then I never, never stopped. But, I think it's interesting that you, big runners seem to do that, that they go too far.

And you tell me if I'm wrong it's okay, I'm gonna run a half or a marathon and then I'm gonna do five marathons that same year. You know what I mean? And so hopefully you didn't do that, but I've seen that a lot. And then they get injured and then, yeah.

Andy Wheatcroft: So keep going. Yeah.

The, it nearly stopped for me at the half marathon point actually. 'cause the half marathon was in like November, 2010. And I got really severe shin splints bad enough that I eventually found a surgeon that would operate on them. I actually had a procedure to, to really, to remove my shin muscle, gave the bone fragments off, stick it back together.

And at the time I said can we hurry up and do this please? 'cause I've got my first marathon in five months. And the doctor that sounds dumb. It does sound a little bit dumb, but the doctor said the good news about this procedure is it's only soft tissues. [00:06:00] Okay. He said, we'll done within a month, you'll be run walking again.

So my training for London was a little bit short, but it. To your point, Chris, actually I'd seen that with a lot of friends who'd running who'd hit running too hard and Yeah. Injured themselves out. And I had this early warning near Miss, which a surgeon happened to say for me, but then it made London really hard.

And I joke that the only reason I did more than one marathon was because when I bonked at mile 20 in London, apart from teaching myself a few new swear words, I, I kept, visualizing the,

Chris Detzel: Is there new one? I think a normal,

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah, you go to a place, what am I doing at for, and all that sort of thing.

Yeah. Uhhuh for me, it was the children's charity, which was a worthy thing. And my wife gave me two beautiful and all that sort of thing. And then I remember that the. They gave my wife drugs in childbirth, so maybe it wasn't that bad. And then I bumped again and I remember saying to myself, 'cause I was on a path to go sub four in my first marathon, which was great.

And I kept saying, look, if I do this thing sub four, I'm never [00:07:00] gonna do this again. And I, luck would have it. I was a failure and I, it was like four hours, 12 and some change. So I had the right move, so I had to do another one, so there we are. Here we are. Yeah. And I although there was a charity aspect to it, I didn't really think anything about running London.

It was, my home big marathon. Yeah. I managed to get in. I didn't really have any other ambitions beyond it. It was a lifetime dream I suppose, but, and it was a great experience. But, the last six were very forgettable about to say, it sounds terrible. Yeah, like everybody's first marathon, it's it's a question of whether you love it or not. I guess you find out whether or not you do and so I did. Yeah. So you

Chris Detzel: ran in London and so what happened after? Were you,

Andy Wheatcroft: yeah so afterwards we moved to the US in a few months later in July to appeal. Does it work?

Was that workplace? Okay. Yeah. I was an executive with caterpillar. So the headquarters was in Peoria, Illinois, which is the reason we went to Peoria, Illinois. Makes sense. No, no offense Peoria, and I started running with a couple of, as you do, you always find a pocket of [00:08:00] running friends.

So I started running with some friends over there. Were they executives

Chris Detzel: also at Caterpillar or was it just running people and

Andy Wheatcroft: mostly running store related. There was one big running store in Peoria and so everybody coagulated around there. And so we did that and and back then Chicago was a first come, first served entry, so I thought I've done London I'll do Chicago.

So in 2012. Wow,

Chris Detzel: that's perfect. You lived there.

Andy Wheatcroft: I lived there. I had a place over on my calendar to know when the website opened. I went to the website and I logged on and paid, and I got a place before they filled up, a day later. Nice. Pretty easy. So I ran for about, I. Six or seven months I think I put into the training.

I, I was really cautious about my injury in the first one and how badly it went. So I paid a lot of attention to That's good. To training and and yeah, so we, I ran Chicago and just a few. Alright, so

Chris Detzel: Quick question before, because I'm interested in, and as I start talking to more and more people and people that seem to be more successful at.

Running marathons successfully and not bonking it. They [00:09:00] run a lot of miles, right? Like to them it's about 80 to 120 miles a week. Especially like to the folks I talked to yesterday, like the elite, like people. But there's something said for the long. Miles. So what was your philosophy then, and then we will get to your philosophy later.

Maybe we could talk about some of that.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. Yeah. I really have two running lives. There's my pre Bostons qualifying life and then there's my regular person life, if you like. So I was still in regular person discovering mode, if you like. And so for me, I was using stock standard plans like a Hal Higdon or something like that, or Hanson's method I got into as well.

So I was topping out. Probably. Now maybe I did 40, 45 miles a week at the top end of you. My mileage base I saw was 20 to 25 miles. And I was building slowly yeah, and I was running most of my miles too quickly, at a tempo. Of course, pace. Pulling muscles along the way and recovering, [00:10:00] collateral damage as we all do, as we all did.

I just thought that's the way that you did it. And I got into Chicago, I did the training. I pulled a muscle six weeks out. I just about got recover for the start line, but my. My, my youngest son had a speech and language delay and so we took him to a number of places to, to be checked out 'cause we didn't know what it was.

And one of the children's charities we went to did a bunch of tests and didn't really find anything. It ended up that he was on the autism spectrum, but I decided that I would just raise money for them at Chicago since I was running it anyway. So I raised about four or five grand e even though I got I'd got a place I didn't need to, so I raised four or five grand for those guys.

Chris Detzel: I feel like you're slacking, man, because you did 20,000 and

Andy Wheatcroft: yeah, no yeah. It was a last minute decision thing. Oh, okay. That's still pretty good then. But at the time I was finding it, I used again early and running. Everything was difficult. I wasn't really running with people often in the week, for example.

And I really needed it for motivation, the fact that I was running for something else and all that. So I got to the [00:11:00] start line in 2012. I. Chicago is a great marathon. It, for those people that don't know it it's a round robin marathon. It starts and finishes in Grant Park in a really downtown Chicago in the loop.

It's great for spectators. You go north, three miles back three miles, it really is three miles. You hit the town center a couple of times. So for spectators it's really great. But you

Chris Detzel: got trained several times to go see your. Person when Leah ran it, I had some friends that knew Chicago really well and I just followed them and went place to place to see her.

So it was good. Yeah. You must have

Andy Wheatcroft: seen it four or five times I would imagine. I did. Plus the finish, so

Chris Detzel: I missed her once 'cause

Andy Wheatcroft: there was so many

Chris Detzel: people there. Yeah.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. That's the downside. Everybody does it so it's really crowded. It's a pretty flat marathon. It's a bit of a beast.

'cause you lose GPSA lot 'cause of the downturn. That's right. Configuration and the bridges. But, it's a, it is a pretty flat marathon. The only you know for people who wanna run it the. I've ran Chicago twice. I also run it in 2014 for me, when you turn left outta Chinatown at mile [00:12:00] 20 and you look at Michigan Avenue and Michigan Avenue is slightly uphill.

It is like the last three or four miles of the marathon really, but it just looks like it goes on forever. And I bumped up there every, just mentally I couldn't deal with it. It was 20, 20, 22 miles. Yeah. And this road just looked like it went on forever. And so to be, I don't like I like the marathon, but I don't like Chicago because twice I've been on the start line pretty fit and I.

Twice. I've not come away with the times. But you didn't finish, is that what you're saying? Or? I did finish, but I didn't, I didn't hit my time goals both times. I did go sub four, that 2012 marathon I three, three hours, 51 or something like that. So I was, what are you complaining about?

That's a pr I know but my run three weeks earlier was better MyTraining, but still. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: But sounds like a pretty good marathon. Yeah. You probably didn't feel good. Yeah. But you prd by 20 something minutes,

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah,

Chris Detzel: whatever.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah, no, it was it was good. And, I lick my wounds like you do, and you think about what can I do next time?

And

Chris Detzel: I feel like you're just never gonna be happy with any marathon. You do. Is

Andy Wheatcroft: it, is

Chris Detzel: this gonna be the story, the rest of [00:13:00] Oh

Andy Wheatcroft: No. Yeah I do eventually start to like them, but, okay, got it. Yeah. But yeah I don't know how it works.

Chris Detzel: You are from the uk so just have that mentality.

Andy Wheatcroft: Pain and discomfort build character where I come from. That was my school motto. But yeah. All right. All right so yeah, so that, that led to me then deciding that actually I should try for New York. New York was a lifelong dream 'cause of Fred Lebo and Fred Lebo being the original. Innovator of big city marathons and how you make the finances work and how you get a mayor to close your city down for a day.

Cargo replicated a lot of his stuff. London copied it directly, Berlin did, and so on. And so I went I went in the lottery and didn't, I wasn't successful, but then. My, my wife mentioned to this charity that I run that, that I was the anonymous donation. And so they called me in to thank me and I the short version of that story is I thought I was going to meet six old ladies for a cup of tea in a room somewhere.

Turned out there was like a thousand people in a hotel with their annual [00:14:00] fundraising girl. Wow. A kickoff thing. And they said, oh yeah, you did say you'd talk, Andy. So I ended up being given a microphone and I wandered up to this mi microphone and I said, look politely, you guys are dumb as a boxer box of rocks because you don't have a marathon fundraising activity.

I. Yeah. Are you aware of the fundraising engine you don't have? And in the end I said, look I'll help you, I'll help you start one. But the o the only rule is I need 50 people to sign up. And secondly I get to choose which are, which is our first big city marathon that we run. And so that, and you got in New York.

So I applied for 20 places. We got 10 in New York that, that year in 2013. Wow. And we took a team of 10, I think we raised $120,000 as a team that, that year. Look at you, man,

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Go get her.

Andy Wheatcroft: And again it, it helped, it made a lot of fun. It introduced me to group running a little bit more.

Yeah. Because of the team aspect of it. And I went around New York approved my, by time, by a couple of minutes. It was New York, but it and it was New York. Still one of my favorite. Of the majors [00:15:00] because of the city. Partly because it's a journey all the way from Staten Island through the six boroughs all the way, to, to Central Park, partly because it's difficult.

I like the fact that those hills, those, six bridges are a pain in the ass and that it makes it hard. Did you like the then though? 2000? Yeah. Yeah. 13. In 2013 it was really cool because it was the year after Sandy, so it was canceled the year before and it was a few months after the Boston bombings.

That would be special. Yeah. And you might have heard me say this on a run, but the moment of silence before the gun was like, the birds and the cars stop singing and moving. It's it just went dead. Love that. I still get goosebumps thinking about it now. Yeah.

And and then we, to run New York's awesome. Some, the crowd is wild, literally wild. If you put your name on New Jersey, you have to move to the middle of the road to have a break from people shouting your name. It is unlike anywhere else that I've grown from that perspective.

They say that New York people aren't very friendly, but the New Yorkers say that they are friendly. They're just busy. And on Marathon, marathon, [00:16:00] Sunday. They're not busy.

Chris Detzel: People from all over the world come, how do you know? They're

Andy Wheatcroft: just

Chris Detzel: from New York, right? Yeah. They're just

Andy Wheatcroft: from all over.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Staten Island. But yeah so yeah, you go through the six boroughs and they're all very different. And it's, it's just an amazing race and I remember almost every step of that. The running through the Bronx is pretty cool.

There's a, again, for anybody who's not run New York, one of the reasons you have to do it is that mile 16, there's a bridge called Queensborough Bridge, which is quite tough. It's the lower deck of a bridge that they close off. And so you go from this. Crazy crowd hearing support to just quiet. And it's almost meditative.

You hear this, you hear his like, breathing in footsteps. It's like running with your friends again just for a minute. You get halfway over the bridge and you are left and you see you're crossing to Manhattan for the first time and it's mile 16. You're not there, but you're a good way in and.

As you come over the bridge, there's a 270 degree ramp to get you back down onto first Avenue, which is where most of the traveling families. Oh, [00:17:00] and the crowds attend. There's a grandstand there. There's probably 10,000 people around that quarter mile. You go from this absolute quiet to this almost super bowl roar as you go onto this tunnel.

Wow. Echoes again. It is just a huge moment. New York for me ~ ~ha has quite a few of those moments,~ so ~

Chris Detzel: that's awesome.

Andy Wheatcroft: And then you get back to Central Park and that's tough, you you kinda get there. I love how you tell that whole story. You go through the Bronx and you come back up, up Fifth Avenue, which is beautiful.

You go past the statue of Fred Lebo back into Central Park. The crowds are 10, 15 deep and roaring, literally. And you know that, that finish is just. Like nowhere else. They're all good for different reasons, but New York's great for that reasons. Yeah, so I we, I finished New York in 2013.

It was just an amazing experience. And then, I ended up doing Chicago at some point later on in 2014. And that was really at that time. The end of my [00:18:00] majors gig because I. ~I~ thought about the Abbott Marathon majors, but I never really correlated that to something that I could actually get done.

Yeah. I was still a, beginner runner. I just happened to have run three marathons and I still wasn't getting the last six miles. My training wasn't right. And and then. A year before my Boston story, which was my next adventure, if you like, was really came from the bombings.

And so I had a friend who made it down the finish chute by a minute when the bombs went off and a year later she was still struggling with PTSD and Acrophobia and so on. Wow. And it was a real, and again, she wasn't physically injured and I know a lot of people, were more severely affected.

Yeah. But it really. Affected me. And so I decided that I'm not gonna run any more majors until I run Boston. And then the day afterwards, I again, 'cause I was still new, I just knew that Boston was a major, I didn't really know any history. And I discovered for the first time, that was like an hour and 15 off [00:19:00] qualifying.

So I had a little bit of a oh shit moment, and yeah. But I said, now screw it. So I said about, significantly to your point earlier, increasing my mileage and I said on a quest to qualify for Boston, and I kept, I, I did other marathons, like Marine Corps and the Air Force Marathon, and a bunch of other really great marathons.

But ~ ~I kept getting close and then getting injured and then recovering and getting close and getting injured. And then eventually we moved to Dallas in. 2021, late 21, early 22. And so that's when I literally bumped into the first weekend I was here. White Rock running co-op. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Wow. Okay. So you've been running with them for a little bit.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. They're three, three plus years now. And to me, I've never really run with a group that big before. Yeah. That diverse. And as there's, the Dallas running scene is awesome and I think, most of us that watch a podcast really. Really like that. You do it Chris.

'cause again, we, Dallas is a great running scene. It is. And this is a great way [00:20:00] to connect you those worlds together as well. And to showcase, the depth and breadth of running talent that that we have in Dallas. It's just a really great scene all of a sudden. I had a group of 10, 12, 20 people I could run with almost every day.

A big group runs on Saturday. Social events, run my hood. I felt spoiled. I was able to run with, people like Nick and Alburn and Scott Manis and many others that, I think Nick's an animal. Yeah. He's a beast. He's a beast. Just, ~ ~yeah. In fact, when I first got here, I thought I'd never run with him.

I'd never be able to keep with the mileage or the pace or anything, but those guys really took me from seeing 25 miles to somewhere near 50 miles as being a base number. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a stubborn individual. I'm not very coachable. I am determined. But I quickly found out that all I have to do a marathon schedule is just run with White Rock.

'cause we do, I. That's right. Track on Tuesday Hills on Wednesday, longer on Saturday. Easy runs in between. It's like that's a marathon schedule. Yeah. So I started basically [00:21:00] doing a marathon schedule like all the time. Yeah. And and then after running, I think it was the Phoenix Meza Marathon 22, I was BQ shape and I just.

I dunno. I just got it wrong. I just completely got it wrong on the day I got my pacing strategy wrong. I don't think I wasn't really being intelligent about my long run back then. And I came back all pissed from that, and then I randomly bumped into Andrea Hudson Baldwin. Yeah, who is also one of the many legendary runners here in Dallas.

We just happened to be running a similar schedule. I was gonna try again at at Glass City in Detroit in September and she was on a, another marathon around the same time and we started running long runs together. She always wanted to do two or three miles more than I got planned. So I was like, okay, it's a bit like running with Nick, whatever you got planned.

Nick's always got a bit more. But then she introduced me to the fact that not only were we doing long runs, but we were doing structured long runs with negative loading in there. I said, what do you mean? She said she said, we're [00:22:00] gonna put some longer tempos in at the back end of the run. And I'd never really done that before.

I I'd only ever seen the long run as something that you just had to check off. Yeah. I'd never really structured it so I went, we went as high as doing a 24 mile long run with Andrea, which I'd never done before. Yeah. And only did we do a 24 mile long run. It was like three, four miles easy.

Four at marathon pace. And then too easy, then five at marathon pace, then two easy, and then six or seven at marathon pace and then cool down. That's a tough day. Yeah. And so she guilted me into it, Andrea, you have to blame her. She's, yeah, she's a silent assassin.

She really is. She looks all sweet, old lady, but that's right. She's really mean, but in a good way. And that like really transformed me. And so I went up to Glass City from being 10, 15 minutes out, outta my BQ time. And I was a lot fitter. And I, I remember running Glass City after that set, thanks to, Nick and Scott and Julian, Javier, and everybody else I ran with.

But in particular, [00:23:00] Andrea helping me on the, the. The more intelligent, long run aspect of it. Yeah. And I remember setting off at Glass City and I needed 3 35 for my BQ time, which was like just like an eight, eight minute six, eight minute seven pace. And so I'd set my target to three 30 and I'd also figured out that I needed an A, b, C goal.

But what most people do, and you probably see this criteria, is that everybody generally sets their A goal as being the best time they think they can do. Which often they're not really trained for anyway. And so you end up bonking, it's a guaranteed bonk so my strategy was, I think I'm three 30 fit, so that's gonna be my A strategy.

My B strategy is gonna be 3 35. I need to at least qualify. Yeah. And my C strategy was 3 25. And people used to say to me, yeah, but surely you've got that the wrong way around. And I said no. I've got this whole mental process where

Chris Detzel: I

Andy Wheatcroft: like it. I wanna try negative taper, at least flat taper. And in my mind, I've got this little subroutine that [00:24:00] says at mile 20, if I'm on pace and I'm feeling good, I go to this mental filing cabinet and I open the top drawer.

And in the top drawers a shoe box. And inside the shoe box there's a little jewelry box, and inside the jewelry box, there's a little slip of paper and it just says, go for it, dickhead. Which was my code for plan C, right? So to me, I didn't even want to think about plan C. Yeah. Unless I checked all the boxes about March 20 and it was a reality.

So I remember going to Glass City, so interesting. Love that. By this time I'd run probably 12 marathons. I'd got one or two almost right, but not quite. And I just set off at 7 45 seven. From mile one and I dropped the three 30 Pacer about 12 miles in. Not by much, but just by, I just creeping away from and I got to mile 20 and it was like an out of body experience.

I didn't feel like it was me running because I couldn't believe that I was still pumping out the splits. That's great. And then I [00:25:00] remember Plan C. 'cause I, because bar 20 miles I did the math and I thought even if I do nines from here to the end, still gonna do 3 35. Yeah. And I remembered plan C and I thought, oh, okay, let's let's have a crack.

And so I pushed it, I did a couple of seven 20 and my last 5K was my quickies 5K. Wow. And that's right. I ended up with a nine minute cushion.

Chris Detzel: That's

Andy Wheatcroft: great. And I'm telling you this story as though I'm telling it about somebody else. 'cause I still don't believe it was me that ran that, that was miles.

So that's pretty impressive, man. And it was pretty much, 10 years worked well. It was pretty much 10 years to the day since the bombs went off in Boston. Wow. And a few months later, I made the commitment to do it. It took me exactly 10 years to qualify.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Andy Wheatcroft: So yeah, I was you were probably around then.

I think that might No, I'd not met you though. I didn't meet you till Boston. I'll tell that story in a minute. But everybody who knows me knows that I bought all sorts of Boston gear. My wife even made me a little, if it is a little [00:26:00] Boston Unicorn Trophy,

Chris Detzel: your wife

Andy Wheatcroft: made it. That's pretty awesome. Yeah she's an artist.

I'm an engineer. It's a strange household, but I knew

Chris Detzel: you were an engineer. Lee and I were talking about that the other. Yesterday or today, I was like, yeah, I talked to Andy today. And, but he gets really deep into these things 'cause Yeah, he's an engineer I bet. Yeah, I think so.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. Sorry about that.

But it's no worries. And for anybody wanting to qualify for Boston, by the way, glass City's one that's really worth considering the climate. Where it is, it's September, it's in Detroit. It's flats are rolling. So it's a really generous gradient. One small mile, a small hill for about half a mile.

So for me it really worked. And Scott Manis came with me as well that weekend. I think he needed to run a state, but it again, just it, it tells you a lot about the group of people that we run with, that you can go to marathons and people from the group Yeah. Will be with you and or tracking you online, but often physically with you.

When we go to these Yeah. It's pretty cool. Different places. So then I got Boston done and I thought about nothing else for nearly a year, nearly a nine [00:27:00] months, than just getting ready for Boston. That's

Chris Detzel: pretty awesome, man. I love that story. And you made it happen, so congrats.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. No I still can't believe I did it, but apparently I did.

What year was that? So that was September 23, and then there was, I was training for Boston. I decided actually early on that I was gonna try and respect the race and I wanted to run it, I didn't want to walk up any of those hills. Yeah. But I wanted to enjoy it. I wanted to see it as a victory lap.

I'll race the second one if I were to do a second one. Isn't that where I met you? Like we had dinner at

Chris Detzel: and stuff. Yeah. Okay.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. So that, that's where I met you and Leah. I think for the first time. We at the last minute decided to go, in fact, I was joking about WRRC 'cause when I first came to Dallas, I used to describe.

WROC to my friends who didn't live in Dallas is like the Cheers bar of the running community, yeah. Everybody's welcome. And we were joking about dinner and we settled on Cheers bar before the marathon, and I think Alan taught you guys into going there. And that's where I met you and there

Chris Detzel: oh, yeah.

Yeah. I [00:28:00] figured. So that was when you first did Boston. Now, I guess you could talk about Boston, but did you do Berlin later or when.

Andy Wheatcroft: Later. Yeah. Yeah. So again, I, yeah. I'm all about mental discipline and emotional intelligence is Andy, the executive talking, but like I, I'd intentionally told myself that I couldn't do Berlin or Tokyo until I'd done Boston.

Got it. That, that, that was like a mental sort of incentive, if you like. And yeah. So I'm wanna

Chris Detzel: go back, I'm gonna ask a

Andy Wheatcroft: more

Chris Detzel: personal question because I'm a little curious because you're pretty much retired now, right? When did you retire? And I ask that because. You could put a lot of time and effort into running if you're retired or, and other things that you wanna do.

But yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that and then go into Boston and think Sure. I'm a little curious.

Andy Wheatcroft: Sure. Yeah so I guess I was retired from my last two technically but yeah so let me finish Boston and then I yeah, let's

Chris Detzel: do

Andy Wheatcroft: it then. Chronologically I can go retirement and then into my last.

So I can address all of your It's engineering you. Yeah. Sorry I've gotta a follow a process, Chris. All [00:29:00] right. Let go. You making me trip out. Sorry everybody knows about my infamous OCD behavior, but anyway so it's the executive

Chris Detzel: in

Andy Wheatcroft: you and thanks for accommodating me, Chris. I appreciate it.

But but yeah. So again, Boston, for those of you that haven't run Boston that are listening to this as well, one of the questions everybody asks is it worth it? And I would say for me, I made it a big deal. It doesn't have to be, I made it a big deal, but I would say it was definitely worth it.

Of course I stayed at the Copley. I met Billy Allen, police superintendent Billy Allen, and bought him a drink at the bar. Billy Allen's the police. Superintendent that ran the marathon that day and then came back and did a 72 hour shift, and he was one of the guys with a gun in his hand that got that last asshole out the boat.

So I met him in a bar and bought him a drink in Boston. So for Boston, it's about, as it's about a weekend. It's like an Olympic village feel. It's just a great vibe. And the race is pretty cool too. I love it. Yeah. And I, I remember bursting into tears. There's a few pictures of me actually in tears as I turn left [00:30:00] onto Boyton Street from Herford.

It's just Wow. Just overwhelming, it you just, the moment you reflect on watching all those times on tv Yeah. And now you are doing it and you kinda remember what it took to get there. And for me, I chose not to take a phone 'cause I, I wanted to just absorb the day. I took a silk lily, white lily in my fanny pack, and I stopped about.

20 feet before the finish line is the first memorial to the bombings right by the side there. So for my friend I stopped about 20 feet before the finish line and I put that silk flower on the monument just for her, really. It was a mental hook 'cause it was quite a tough day.

So it probably helped me get up a couple of hills that I might have bumped on. So maybe it was a net gain. I don't know. But it, for me, it was there, there's pictures of me striding over the barriers somewhere and all these photographers. Where the hell is he going?

That's a great story. I love that.

Chris Detzel: That's really great. So

Andy Wheatcroft: yeah, I'm still trying to find the photo. Apparently there's two cameramen that were there. I've been through three agencies where? BAA contract photographers. So I'm still trying to track [00:31:00] down the photo from below me, but still. But yeah and, crossing the finish line is huge.

It's just, it's everything you think it might be because unlike the other marathons Boston requires something of you to be there. You can't just. Do a lottery and get there, there's no disrespect. Any marathon is a huge deal but Boston there's lots of little extra meaningful ness points if you like, or hooks.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Part of it is took you 10 years to do it, to qualify. Yeah. And you qualified, that's, and you ran it and I, and plus a lot of other things like you mentioned. We're going on wow. You know what a story.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. So I was working back then so I will answer your question, Chris, but yeah, so I was working and as you say it's spinning plates and running on business trips and, around airports and stuff and all that sort of thing.

But then I, a few months later I retired and, I Semit retired. I teach at ut and I have a couple of charity director positions that I do a little bit of consulting, but I mostly do [00:32:00] that when it suits me and not the other way around. So I it's the way it should be,

Chris Detzel: right?

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah, exactly. But ironically, I still run the same schedule.

We ran together this morning at the track. I find it helps me with my routine, but it also means I can get the. To get my run done, I can do 8, 9, 10, 12 miles before 7:00 AM Yeah. And I can still be back to take my youngest son to school, which is a neat thing. One, one of the reasons I retired, yeah.

Now 16-year-old I get to take him to school every day and he has to talk to me for 20 minutes. That's right. There is no escape. Yeah, but I like that. But yeah. But yeah so for me, the the ability to be mostly retired to your point, really helps. It helps with recovery more than anything.

'cause I can take a nap for an hour in the middle of the day if I want to, and I do quite often. Whatever you want. Yeah, ~ ~I would famously Roger Feder used to sleep, was it 11 hours a day. ~ ~Because he used to he credits his longevity of his career with a solid eight and a half hours every night doing some training in the morning, actually having a nap in his schedule for two, two and a half hours [00:33:00] in the middle of the day, and then doing more training in the afternoon.

It was, he was a professional athlete, that's really, yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, and I think, the retirement thing to me, you mentioned I'm an engineer, so I'm a bit. OCD I'm sequential about things, but I think, running suits my personality because you have to be running a marathon in particular is really about solving problems, really.

You have your own physical ability, but the way you get through the training, the way you deal with tough spots in the training. Use strategy on race day, all of the things that can go wrong and how you compensate for them. To me I, I love marathon running because it provides an outlet for that problem solving gene that I've got.

Chris Detzel: There's a lot of engineers, man, that run. I know a lot of 'em, like I don't spend like that much effort and time into like you do and others. Even Leah's not an engineer, but she's very. Meticulous about her training and what she does, and I'm just like, yeah. I don't know. I ran 30 or 40 miles.

It's fine.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. But one thing that has happened is my train, my, my running's gone up to 70 mile weeks, [00:34:00] and I'm probably gonna back off to 50 miles is, and try and see that as a base, but thanks to running with, yeah. Nick, we'll say his name three times, Nick. He'll probably appear fairly soon, but you'll see him tomorrow I guess.

Yeah, you just, as I say, there's always people to run with, between P-R-C-D-R-C, white Rock, Pegasus, the bagel will run on Wednesday, all of that stuff. Tons of Dallas is just so rich with, multi running group and meeting friends opportunities. I just somehow.

I've got to a place where I can do. 12, 10, 12 miles a week, three or four times in the week, and a long run and a Saturday, a lake loop, and it adds up to 70 miles, yeah. It's shocking, but but yeah so I was able to put that kind of base into and build that sort of base into Berlin. So once I finished Boston, I was sat at home thinking now I can finish my six stars.

And this was like. Late April, and I'm also not very patient. I guess that's the executive thing, so I don't do patients. And as I was saying, I was able to [00:35:00] build my mileage base up quite a bit. At the same time, shortly after Boston, I figured why wait? So after I several hours searching the internet, I found a local charity with spots available.

For Berlin in September. Oh, I thought, screw it. Let's do Berlin in September. So we got that done and I managed to get into Berlin and I had a great time in Berlin. Was, the whole weekend was awesome. We had a group of about 20 plus people from the Dallas area on a Facebook page that were over there.

So there was a bunch of bumping into people that I knew half the time.

Chris Detzel: That's awesome.

Andy Wheatcroft: The charity that I ran with was also a kid's charity for the kids. Which, which took me to, I think, $200,000 in my fundraising career over running these marathons. Which was kind, pretty impressive. But the patron, that charity was uda ick who's Canada Dean of Castor of.

Germany, if you like real marathon aficionados you'll know that Ude Pipi actually won Boston for two or three times in the eighties. Oh really? Wow. [00:36:00] Inaugural Berlin Marathon When after reunification she was their Olympic star marathon athlete in Germany, and so she was a bit of a rock star over there.

So I got to meet her, which was cool at a charity function and, and Berlin was a perfect day weather-wise. That's awesome. We ju we, we'd just come off the summer, so as in Dallas you can't really do a lot of speed work on long runs in the summer 'cause you just can't. So I didn't really know what my fitness was and I just started running.

I thought, let's give three 30 a crack. Because I've only gone sub three 30 once in my life and I felt like I was in good shape thanks to my increase in mileage and the variety in running with psychos like Nick and Navier and the crew again, I think because of the mileage base, I just stuck 7 45 pace and I kept clicking them off and.

That's correct. The interesting thing about Berlin is because it's European, there are no mile markers, there are only kilometers. So I was just using my average mile mace pace and it was auto lapping. I really hadn't got a clue where I was on the course. I was just looking at my average mile pace and I was just [00:37:00] every mile trying to do seven 40 fives and eventually I worked out that we got another K mark.

I thought that means we quite deep into the marathon. And I'm feeling okay. So I, again, I had another moment and pushed it again and it got a little bit tough towards the end. 'cause you, you zigzag back up to, to the Brandenburg gate, but it's still fairly flat. And then you turn left and you see the Brandenburg gate the finish line's what quarter of a mile after that.

And I was looking at my watch thinking, huh? I'm way below three 30 and I ended up doing another 3 26 at Berlin. So I run another BQ at Berlin. So I guess, there's something into running more mileage. I think so. I do think so.

Chris Detzel: So you, did you do, are you gonna do Boston again or, because you.

Be cute or, I hope

Andy Wheatcroft: so. Yeah. I hope so. And I suppose that also segues into the last gymnastic stars. Yeah. Sunday before last, but I I would love to do Boston again, and this time I would go for a time. I would give it a crack since it's not my first one. It's not a vitriol lap anymore, [00:38:00] but my cushions like three hours, sorry, three minutes, 39 seconds, which should be enough, but it might not be, so we'll see.

That's

Chris Detzel: true.

Andy Wheatcroft: That's true. So we'll see. After Berlin I did the same thing for Tokyo. I thought why wait for Tokyo? With Tokyo? I thought the chances are so low of getting in a ballot. Let's not even do that. And in Tokyo it's different to everywhere else. The charity portion of the entry processes first, and then there's the general entry ballot.

I don't wanna leave it to chance. So again I did another charity commitment if you like to run it. And secured that quite quickly after Berlin. And so I thought I'll just keep my mileage up. I, and running through winter really helped as well. And so I kept my base up.

I signed up to Pace the Dallas full in December four hour Pace Group as a incentive to keep my miles up as well, which was a lot of fun. And I was probably in the best shape of my life actually 20% better than Glass City, [00:39:00] 30% better than Berlin. I was feeling really good and then. I I was feeling optimistic going into Tokyo.

And again, the beauty about the marathon is that it's never guaranteed. It doesn't matter. And firstly, firstly it was a huge buzz being in Japan. It's like completely everything's alien and you, the only thing that, that you know is that you're running 26 miles in a couple of days.

Everything, it shows you how screwed up life is or how upside down life is. And it's really cool in Japan. I love Japan, but but like when the most sensible thing you're doing that week is 26.2 miles one day, it shows you how crazy everything else is. But but, but yeah, so again, Tokyo was great.

Really flat really well organized. A few quirks, like they, they don't have waves, they just do one big 37,000 person start, there's no gaps in between the waves. So it's really busy, but it's really flat, really well supported. But unfortunately it was hot. It was the end temps were with the [00:40:00] sunlight were like 70 plus degrees, and that was like from, the last hour and a half of the marathon.

I, I set off pretty well. I was clicking out 7 37 miles, I was tracking to go sub 3 25. A sensible first half at one hour, 44. I thought, okay, now I can negative split. Let's do, and then just before then, one of the quirks of Tokyo, which is cool if you ever get to run it, is there's three switchbacks.

It's a point to point, but at the start and finish, you're only six miles apart. And they do that by, by having quite a lot of these three. Point a 180 degree turnarounds. The advantage of that is that about 11, 12 miles you get to see the leaders run past you either way, which is really quite rare.

Yeah. And it, it's really a spectacle. To, it's pretty awesome to see, feel it as well as see it, because they're running the opposite way and boy are they running, it's a brilliant sight to see, but I wasn't concentrating and I tripped up. So I did a fairly spectacular fall skin, my knee, oh my gosh.

Bang my [00:41:00] back and twisted it a little bit. And I kinda, at one point I took my shoulder under and did a perfect tuck and roll. So in my mind, the crowd were going 9, 10, 9 0.5, it was a really good athletic tuck and roll. But congratulations

Chris Detzel: on the tuck and roll.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah, exactly.

The triple SCO with a half twist. It was great. But but then five, six miles later I realized I was running on adrenaline. 'cause I was still mad. The adrenaline fizzled and the sun came out and then it just got really tough. And then yeah, the sun, it really came out at mile 23, so I toughed it out from mile 18 to 23, and then 23 I just bumped and then it was just really hard.

It was really hot, really? Somebody

Chris Detzel: told you were bleeding, and what'd you think about that?

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah I actually told him to shut up. Because I didn't wanna know, so I don't wanna know. Don't wanna know. Thank you. Don't wanna know. Thank you. I appreciate it. But don't wanna know. Shut up. Yeah and then, I decided that even though I bunked, I was going to run at some awful pace and I managed to crawl home in three hours, 44, [00:42:00] after doing a.

Hour 40 something, hour 43 or whatever it was, first half. And so not too bad.

Chris Detzel: It's not a huge, horrible bon, it's a bon, but

Andy Wheatcroft: not a. It's a bong, but it felt poetic that it was really hard, it was my sixth star. I'm thinking, yeah, it should be hard. It ironically feels a bit like my first marathon.

And then, we made it to the finish and because I ran for charity, there was a big party event afterwards which was cool. That kind of added to the day a little bit and eventually somehow I still don't believe I've got the medal over there behind me, but. I got a six star medal and wow. Literally, I see it literally ran the world. I actually got interviewed by Abbot TV at the end. Oh, you did? Cliff was running and they had my British accent and they asked me a few questions about the race and the day and I said it was really sweet of Paula to let me beat her to six stars.

'cause she'll complete it in Boston in a few weeks, which I thought was kind. Yeah. A dig, but he said so what did you get out of running the six stars? I bet it was a great experience and I thought about it for a [00:43:00] minute and I guess, a closing thought to the six star journey is that actually the medals behind me are really cool and I've had some really brilliant, like long weekends and race days.

The thing for me is that I've spent like 10, 12 years making friends and. Finding a place where I really enjoy the training. Yeah. It's all about the community. All about the community, all about running with people, all about helping other people as well when it's their marathon set. Helping people taper, helping people do long runs, yeah. It's and. I always say to my non-running friends that, that, it might sound a bit crazy, but, and I know you, you have quite a lot of new runners, listen to your podcast as well. But I would say that friends you make that are running are just by definition the best friends. You know how many friends in your life will show up at 4:30 AM if it's raining?

'cause they said they would. How many friends would hold the toilet door shut for you when you've had a long run, toilet issue or something?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. [00:44:00]

Andy Wheatcroft: More than spare a square. Absolutely. But and yeah, they put up with you when you've bunked or you've twisted an ankle in the long run somewhere to say, I've got a lot of good friends in my life.

I think. The best and most reliable friends are running friends. And to me that's really what I got out the last 10, 12 years.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And I'll say this 'cause I think this is important, and I love what you said about how, building those relationships are key, the community and exactly what you get out of.

That the best fr best of friends. What's next for you?

Andy Wheatcroft: So I'm not sure if everybody knows this but again, because I'm a geek I've followed it. So Abbott, you are apparently Will always I chatted to somebody, the ma, so Abbott did a six star breakfast celebration thing in Tokyo, which I went to.

So I was talking with a couple of the senior Abbott folks and they're explaining that. The six star is gonna be the six star forever. These six marathons are also gonna generate a six star. They know that people are halfway through the journey. They know that it takes 10, 12, 15, 20 years [00:45:00] sometimes to get all these things done.

So they're not about to change it. But what they said was with the three new stars that they're adding, so they added Sydney last year. Hopefully Cape Town will pass. Its assessment year this year. So Cape Town will be the eighth and Shanghai is. And a year further out. So maybe by 2027 there'll be three more majors.

So I'm not sure about Shanghai. I'm not keen about the air pollution there, but definitely I'd like to do Sydney and for sure, I'd love to do Cape Town around Table Mountain right by the Pacific Ocean. That will be a spectacular marathon. So I'm probably gonna do that at some point. But I just, and I know you do this a lot, Chris as well, but.

I, I spent 10 years never being able to pace because I can never waste a marathon set on not trying to qualify for Boston. So I've paced a couple of marathons since I ran Boston, since I qualified for Boston, sorry. And Pacing's, one of the. Especially if it's like a two hour or four, a meaningful, yeah.

Time that, that, anybody, you get to the finish line, that beats that time. It's a huge [00:46:00] life moment for them. So I actually get quite a lot outta pacing. It's huge for, it's a lot of fun. So it's just great to give back as well. I run hard. I think they tell Morrison. Half and I helped one young guy get below two hours, even though it was a hot day and he was hobbling at the end.

And you do this a couple of times you run with people who are new runners and it turned out that he'd never had the advice about buying bigger shoes. So he was a size nine. He got size nine shoes and he was crippling. That's the big problem. Yeah. That's right. And so you know, you get to do some coaching to newbie runners as well.

Yeah. In some of those things. Yeah so a lot of pacing. I'll do a couple more, global marathons 'cause they're just a lot of fun. But there, there's a lot to go out in the US as well so we'll see. But just, as we said earlier, the marathons are great and they're a cherry on the cake, but they're not the cake.

The cake is what we did this morning, meeting at the track at 6:00 AM Yeah. And doing intervals. And laughing at somebody who's got a toilet problem one day, not that sort of thing.

Chris Detzel: You just hope it's not you. That's right.

Andy Wheatcroft: Yeah. And yeah, having a margarita and attack hour after [00:47:00] long run on Saturday.

That's what I'll be doing.

Chris Detzel: Andy, the technology is telling us to stop here. Yeah. ~ ~But this, your journey has been great. Your journey to your six stars the world majors has been pretty amazing. I can't wait to see what you do next. Certainly you've got a couple others that you're gonna go after, but the pacing, yeah.