Phillip Paris Leaves Colin Hamilton Hanging: The 4AM Houston Marathon Text

FW Running Talk: Colin and Phillip
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

All welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we have two special guests, folks that I've run with a lot in the past and every now and then now, so when they show up to run. But we have Colin Hamilton and Phillip Paris. How you guys doing? Good.

Phillip: How about you?

Chris Detzel: Good, Colin. How are you?

I'm doing well. Good. I feel like you had to be coerced to say you're doing well, so it's good. Yeah.

Colin: Twist his arm. You just get the pressure of oh, I have, I always have to say I'm doing fine, so I'm not asked further questions.

Chris Detzel: I'm done. We're finished. I thought this would be a fun podcast to do because the three of us have run together for a pretty long time, since 2018, 19 when, not necessarily our journey has started, but when, where we started running together was DRC and had lots of really great conversations and I just thought, let's [00:01:00] continue these conversations on the podcast, but.

Before we do, let's talk a little bit about your journeys, how you guys got into running and what that looks like now, past now and all that kind of stuff. I wanna start with Colin, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Colin: Yeah. So my running history is a little bit interesting. So on July 13th, 2007 I, yeah, when I was 14.

Chris Detzel: Okay. I feel like I'm way older than you,

Colin: so I was ran over by a car, which a lot of people, yeah. Yeah. And I missed my spine by two millimeters. And so on that day, I

Chris Detzel: didn't know if you could get serious here. Man, this is crazy already.

Colin: If it helps, I jumped on the car.

Chris Detzel: Oh, that's good.

14. You have the agility. It was

Colin: my older brother's girlfriend it's just like all the dynamics are just great.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Colin: Yeah, I get ran over and I break my pelvis. The reason I tell that is 'cause like I'd always wanted to run in high school, not with cross country, just in general as like a way to stay [00:02:00] healthy and man, every time I'd hit two miles, my brain would just go you're in a lot of pain right now.

And where I broke my pelvis like would just hurt. So for about six years, all the way until college, I would just get to two miles and quit. 'cause I just imagined, I was like, I'm never gonna be able to run past two.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, that was in your mind? That's interesting. Yeah.

Colin: So I meet someone in college and they essentially just challenge me.

They say, Hey, try and run three miles. Just hit the two and try and go further. And so I remember the first time I did I did 2.25 and I was like, oh, I've never made it this far. But I had to quit. Then I did 2.5 and I was gonna do 2.75. I saw what was happening and I ended up going to three, and I was like, cool.

So I got up to three miles in college, just casual running, and then I became a high school teacher.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Colin: And yeah, I wanted to de-stress. Yeah, I wanted to de-stress and three miles was not cutting it. So I [00:03:00] remember running and I would do four and five, and I had done a 10 K at some point in college and was like super stoked about it.

Chris Detzel: That's a big accomplishment, considering your mind was I'm gonna hurt.

Colin: Yeah. Absolutely. So you kinda past that now?

Chris Detzel: After,

Colin: yeah. Good. So I would run four or five, I would get to six on some days. And then my brain, just that like little seed that someone had planted in Cobb said, do you think you could do seven?

And then that seven became eight.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Colin: And then on the nine year anniversary of when I got ran over, I was like, I'm gonna go run nine miles as like a symbolic little thing. And I actually went to 10 on that day.

Chris Detzel: You should have stopped at nine since, it's symbolic. Hey, I

Colin: wanted to crawl to the 10.

It was all about it. And so the whole thing, like the marathoning thing had been in the back of my head. And so I was like, that's a bucket list thing. So I was like, went to a running store and I said, Hey, I ran 10 miles. Do you think I could do a half? And the guy was like, absolutely, you can do a half for sure if you ran 10 miles.

And I said, oh, cool. And then I went, do [00:04:00] I wanna be a half marathoner though? Is that really what I wanna do? So I completely skipped, I did zero halves and immediately signed up for a full, which do not recommend to anybody.

Chris Detzel: Nope.

Colin: I remember running my first half there.

Chris Detzel: Wait, stop there Colin. I want to get Phillip's response to all that so far.

Phillip: I've heard it before. I'm not surprising.

Chris Detzel: This doesn't surprise you. No. You guys know each other well.

Colin: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Alright, go ahead Colin.

Colin: I run my first half marathon in my mom's neighborhood. Cheered for myself. One guy cheered for me. He was mowing his lawn.

He was like, do you have a good run? I said, yeah, man, I just ran a half marathon. He goes, oh, congrats.

Chris Detzel: What was your unofficial time? I'm curious

Colin: man. Listen, I shocked myself. So I remember I hit 11 or I hit 12 and I went, I have to book it. I ran a 1 59, 13. That's

Chris Detzel: pretty good. Considering you just did it by yourself.

Colin: 11:00 AM in the [00:05:00] morning. Oh, man. I started

Chris Detzel: Love it.

Colin: So then I did the Woodlands Marathon in 2017, which if you know anything about the Woodlands Marathon in 2017, the lead biker missed a turn. Oh no, it was a half mile short. So I ran 25.7 miles and in my brain I went, I was like, I didn't do it, not it.

You're a math guy, right? Math. And I teach high school, so you know, I go, I've been building up for these high school kids and they were like, so you didn't do it?

Chris Detzel: That's right. Wait. Alright, let's back up just a little bit because I think that marathon is key because. Didn't really, how'd you train?

What'd you do? Like to think about that. Training, nutrition, all that stuff. Yeah, sure. Which probably didn't do anything but whatever. Let's, I wanna hear it.

Colin: So I would say my one saving grace was my wife is a dietician and she was like, you need to eat more. That was about as far as that went.

Chris Detzel: That's fair.

Colin: I knew you had to eat during [00:06:00] the run. 'cause I heard about like the goos with some endurance sports and all that. But in terms of racing, I went and looked up Hal Higdon's beginner marathon plan, which if you look that up, there's no speed work on it. It is all just base aerobic. So my brain went, oh, I should just run my race pace the entire time,

Chris Detzel: like every single time you run to run.

I was like, I'm gonna run

Colin: a sub four, so 9 0 9 every run. And I was like, man, I'm feeling really good.

Chris Detzel: I mean at least you're getting some base, yeah, for running a little too fast probably. But still,

Colin: I still remember two weeks before the marathon, I like read something on runner's World and I told my wife, I said, I think I needed to be doing tempo runs, but I don't know what those are and I think it's too late.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, probably. Probably psyched yourself.

Colin: Race pace went really well until mile 21 and then I lost like an hour. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Hey, that's pretty good. 21 miles and a lot of people bonk at 21, 22. So that's, yeah, for sure's [00:07:00] normal. And the first marathon, you basically did everything by yourself.

You knew nothing besides, oh my gosh, dude, here's the plan. A lot of people do that, by the way.

Colin: That's not, the whole training season was insane. I look back at that training season, I'm like, I'm pretty sure I ran more during that than I would at like when I had my best marathon a couple years ago in Detroit.

Like I think I was more consistent training, but I just didn't know what I was doing.

Chris Detzel: So that'll be the last question I ask for now. But yeah, as you I'm curious, how many marathons have you done since.

Colin: So I've just done, I just finished my 11th marathon in Houston this year. In January. Okay.

Chris Detzel: We'll talk more about some of that later, but just curious.

You've had a lot of marathons in your belt, half marathons, all that kind of stuff, and you've been doing a lot of good stuff, since 2017, 18, but lot of it, that's a pretty cool, interesting story. I can't wait to hear Phillip, trying to top that. So let's go.

Phillip: I can't do it.

Chris, what do you wanna know?

Chris Detzel: [00:08:00] Just tell me a little, how'd you get to start running? What kind of inspired you to do that? When did you do it?

Phillip: Yes. I played soccer in high school, so I, we've ran a decent bit, right? So warm up coach says, Hey, go run, 12 laps around the field and that's probably, yeah, two miles or whatever.

So that was probably about my cap, in high school and then let, were you a pretty good soccer player or Nah, I wasn't very good, but I was I wasn't very good, but I was, fast. So you're active, so I think that, yeah, I active, yeah. That's what I tell the high school

Chris Detzel: kids is let's just get out there and run a little, let's just do something.

If you're in band. You ain't doing any running, let's do something. That's what I tell my son. He loves band and it's great, but when he is here with the summer, in the summer with me, it's like he's 14. Going to the ninth grade was like, let's just do some five Ks, and he does, and so I think that, it's funny, he came to my house this summer and he's I've lost eight pounds, dad, because he has to eat healthier 'cause we don't have junkier. And he's doing a little bit more exercise. Anyways. Go ahead Phillip. Sorry.

Phillip: No problem. Yeah. Let's see, late, probably [00:09:00] 2007, 2008.

As far as like endurance sports, I, I did a little bit of cycling. When I say a little bit like I would train, I don't know how it is for if y'all ride much at all, but at least here it's it's too cold to ride in the winter, right? So I would ride a little bit starting April and I'd ride through July and maybe ride a few hundred miles and did the the metric hundred.

For the hotter than hell one year, and I did the MS 1 51 year. Sounds ridiculous. So I knew, like I knew I, I had interest in endurance sports to an extent. Fast forward to Rebecca and I got married in 2012 and in 2013 we're like, Hey let's get in, let's try to get in shape. Let's do a 5K.

Yeah. So we did couch to 5K before that.

Chris Detzel: I Wait, were you thinking you were like a little outta shape or something and you're like, Hey, I gotta do something, or what?

Phillip: Yeah. Yes. You're overweight. I don't know, Yes. I'll try not to get in trouble, but I gained some weight. I, but, probably this is about you just, yeah.

It was about me, five or 10 pounds that I wanted to get rid of and again, had interest in and and endurance sports to an extent. So [00:10:00] we did the ca I did the five cash to 5K. Rebecca might have joined me, but we did that together. Did a 5K in. 2013 and then Detrained for a couple years, we didn't do it again.

Detrained. Yeah. So we, that was, that was enough. Started eating more and did no exercise. I know, but we did a couple more in 2015. Okay. And the. What the kind of driving factor here was Rebecca's family. She's got an uncle and cousins that were really into cross country and in 2015 we thought that we might go up there up to Indianapolis for Thanksgiving and they do a four mile drum drumstick dash, and we're like, how We can do 5K.

But what about. Four miles. Like how are we gonna do that? Same way? Yeah same way. You just keep going. So we're like, isn't it funny how

Chris Detzel: daunting some of this sounds? Yeah. When you're, it's just because there a kind of crazy, there

Phillip: was a wall after that as soon. Yeah. 3.11, there's a wall.

We can't go past it. We end up working past it. We [00:11:00] don't end up going on that trip, but we got interested, more interested in running. We signed up for, again, I'm gonna say we a lot 'cause my journey's. Closely tied to my wife, but we did the run project had a package of five and 10 Ks.

You could do 12 or 13, 14 races, something like that. So we signed up for that package in 2016 and we did, you started racing the hell out of it. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Just really crushing it. We did our first 10 Ks in the January, 2016 and, ended up signing for up for DRC.

We didn't know what DRC was, but we're like, Hey, this is a little more local, close to us, but we didn't know what that was.

Chris Detzel: So you just signed up for the races at the time, or was it the pro?

Phillip: It was the package and then we signed up for DRC. But we didn't know, we didn't know anything about the races or anything.

Like we were just members. So then Rebecca's what if we do we argued be even before 10 Ks about, I was like what if we do a 10 K? And she's no way. We're not doing it. Those are hard. And then yeah. And then we did it and then she was like, Hey, what about a half marathon?

[00:12:00] I'm like, let's do it. Let's do, wow. So we signed up for Dallas and we also signed up for DRC training in, so that fall of 2016 was our first season with DRC. Okay.

Chris Detzel: How'd that, so your first half marathon was during the DRC training or did you Yeah. First. Okay.

Phillip: Yeah. Signed up.

We signed up for DRC. We trained with, there was no there's all sorts of data that you give DRC and they put you in a group and that sort of thing. So the data that we had that I had was not, it was not good. It wasn't good data. It was accurate, but it wasn't, it put me in the 2 25 group.

Okay. So that first season For half? Yeah, for half. Yeah. Yeah. Not for marathon. You're not there yet. And No, they're not there yet. And the first half I did was DRC half in 16. And our pace leaders Vera Retcher and Megan Reams they paced me and Rebecca and get, I did a 2 22. Okay. Wow.

And the, and it was training with 2 25 and it was, not all perfect, all the way through the season, like exactly [00:13:00] what you wanted. I'm like, okay. And I knew I had more, like at the end of the race, I had a kick. I know I've got more than this, right? So it's like, what can I do next? So Dallas another half or full? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Dallas was the goal race for that season for me, and ended up doing it. Two 11? I think so. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: I know both of you have done really great thing. It's funny because in general this is a typical person's journey, something like what you two and myself is very similar, right?

It's different, but it's like we don't really get into running until later. Like when I say later, maybe we dabbled. I did cross country in high school and things like that. Then I stopped doing it and got back into it. And you guys did some similar things, right? Didn't know anything about training or, yeah.

You're running, it's like Colin said, every ru run was, a pr even during training or the same yeah. Yeah. It's, this is a, I think is a typical journey of. Most human beings, they get into running. Not always. I've talked to folks [00:14:00] that have, ran into high school, then went to college and ran and had really stellar running careers in a way, and then carries over.

You're playing soccer, Phillip, so that, you two have certainly become pretty good friends. I think, during this whole thing, you met it and I've, I feel like we're friends, but I don't know that I'm as connected to this, the two of you, but when did y'all meet? I know we'll tell a little story about how we all met, but how did the two of you meet?

Who wants to tell the story?

Colin: Yeah, I can kick us off and then I think Phillip can definitely take over. So I like vaguely remember running with Phillip. Like DRC has these huge groups and you're like, I see you. I will not talk to you at all during this run. Not intentionally. It just won't happen.

Thanks. I'm leaving. And I remember Phillip was like really impressed with me and he really wanted to talk to me.

Chris Detzel: Oh man, this is getting off. Okay.

Colin: So yeah, I remember seeing Phillip. It's not Unru.

Chris Detzel: I was impressed with you, Colin, when I first

Colin: Thanks. That's what I'm really just going for. I just want people to really be blown away by who I am as a person.

Chris Detzel: I still don't think you've hit [00:15:00] your potential, but still you'll get there maybe.

Colin: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. So yeah, I remember running with Phillip a couple times and then, yeah, I think at this point did you approach me or did I approach you? There was like one time where we were like, we should run together.

Phillip: Yeah, I think that was, I went back and looked, and I did a whole bunch of show prep on this, so Yeah. Yeah. I know. 2019 is, I think that was our first run together okay. You and I went on a, it was a lake loop that we did solo run.

Colin: Yes. And it was just me and Phillip and yeah, it was like within a mile we were like.

Here's my life story and it just started like pouring out. And so it was just like one of those like rare things when you like meet someone and you're like, oh, we connect really well. And it just, I was like, here's all my stuff. And then Phillip was like, here's all my stuff. And I'm like, cool.

We both have stuff.

Chris Detzel: Colin is funny because I remember when I first started running with you. I just knew the potential that you have. Like [00:16:00] you've done some really good marathons, I think and some Hals and things like that. But I've always been impressed with kind of your ability and even, one point, you get so serious, about your training and about, really focusing in and trying to run a really fast marathon.

And, I was impressed with that. It was like, okay, collins finally got extremely serious about this. Not to say you weren't before, but when you get into DRC for the first time or into training, you just, you're still learning. Even if you've learned some, you just, and then what happens is people get off a little bit of the DRC focus and then get a little bit, I don't wanna say they're not serious anyways, they.

Get a coach or those kinds of things and get some really focused in, been pretty impressed with what you've been doing and just your journey and things like that. So that's the first time I remember. I remember. Seeing you run and then seeing you race. I was like, wow. You know that guy, he's got some ability and effort, or time.

Now he's got some serious kind of stuff. And I remember with Phillip, I just know that the biggest thing I remember about you [00:17:00] is, you're very serious. Where are we going here? But is you and I sometimes would be at a race and Uhhuh it feels like I got closer to you through races. I guess we would do Cal Town or something like that, right?

And we're right there together. You're passing me. I'm passing you. And I was like, God dang. Like

Phillip: we'd meet up at mile nine, I feel like, maybe go maybe up the hill into, you'd pass

Chris Detzel: me up the hill. I'd

Phillip: pass you down the hill. And then you just descend better than I do.

And I ascend better than you do. And yeah. And we'd just go back and forth the rest of the race, I feel like. Yeah. And that it's happened multiple times, so we didn't plan it. That's right.

Chris Detzel: It happened more than once. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was just interesting, seeing, I think he kicked my ass both times, I guess at the end.

I was like at the end, man, I have nothing, I'm just trying to stay with you during the one, but it's just interesting to see those journeys, do you guys still run together? Is that is when you can, or, I know I've been seeing you some on both on Tuesdays during the track workouts.

Colin: Phillip is one of my best friends. We [00:18:00] run all the time together. I would say at least, if not once a week, once every two weeks. We definitely

Chris Detzel: touch this. Don't trade recipes and stuff. I think I saw something like that.

Colin: Yep. We definitely cook together too. Yeah. We trade food and, yeah. No, that's serious.

We have a consistent, I was like, what? No. Yeah. We're like, yeah, that happened. One of our runs, right? I have a jar of curry paste in my fridge from Phillip right now.

Chris Detzel: That's great.

Colin: Yeah. So yeah, it's been, it was like we started that run in 2019 and then just like from there it was like. Hey, you like Indian food and it's rare to meet other white people who are like, I also really like Indian food.

So we were like, let's go get Indian food together. Now

Chris Detzel: Do you guys go out as a, as a family the whole family gets together and hang out? Or is it just the two of you that just really

Colin: whole fam, all whole fam, all of me and Sarah.

Chris Detzel: You and Sarah and then you know, Phillip has just one or two now.

Colin: One. Yeah. Okay. Just one. Yeah, that's

Chris Detzel: right. I always forget, we haven't gone [00:19:00] out

Colin: going like to a restaurant yet, I don't think.

Chris Detzel: Okay. That's always a struggle is when they're really young trying to get them to, because you're spending all the time with the kid. So what's next for you guys?

What are you thinking about?

Colin: Yeah, so I, for me, I ran Houston this year, which if you did Houston this year, God bless you. 'cause it was a terror of a race.

Chris Detzel: It was cold and windy and

Colin: so windy. Yeah. Phillip, it was really windy outside. I don't know if you were aware. I got a bib.

It's right here. We'll go ahead and fill everyone in on that real quick. So yeah, do it. Phillip and I trained for this race together. Probably more consistently than we've trained for any other race together. That's good. And we stayed at the same Airbnb. We were gonna both do this full marathon together.

This was my last marathon for a year. I'm gonna give Phillip some grace right now. He had another marathon coming up,

Chris Detzel: Uhhuh.

Colin: So for me, this was like, this is my [00:20:00] race. So the night before we're at an Airbnb that's three stories tall. It is so windy. The beds were on are like hard as rocks. We can just hear the wind banging against the window the whole night.

I got three hours of sleep and I'm a pretty good sleeper.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Colin: So I was like, this thing is it was just like taunting you the whole night, like you're gonna this race is gonna suck. And I was like, okay. So I wake up at four 30. To a text from Phillip that says text.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Oh, yeah. He's

Colin: Hey, I don't think it makes sense for me to run this race today.

Phillip: Oh

Colin: my

Chris Detzel: God, Phillip,

Phillip: just because it's cold. No. I was, yeah I was, it had been sick too before the race, and I didn't sleep at all, and I was just like. Even leading up to, with Houston you can switch over pretty easily for the like to the half marathon.

Okay. And for some reason my brain was operating so well, I dunno if it was dad brained or just because I was sick too. I was like, I can switch over to the half marathon the week of. They're like, [00:21:00] no, that was last Tuesday. Not to, not that Tuesday. So mentally like going into the that race week, like I wasn't even really prepared to do the marathon.

And I was like I guess I'm doing the marathon. And then the night again, that call story is the same way. Our rooms, we had separate rooms, but the same setup. The beds were the same. They were like hard as a rock. And all night that wind was just. Pounding on the windows, and it was just like I got no sleep and I sent the, I said, Hey guys, I'm gonna go into spectator mode today.

Sorry. And I went to sleep and I didn't, I hadn't really slept up to that point. And after that, I slept like a baby for a couple hours. And we, I got that off. I'm digging. Goodnight. Oh, thank. So I think we did our best to get on the course and see Colin, what was that, mile seven or eight and we didn't even, we missed calling.

Chris Detzel: He's not us too tired and couldn't see you. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry I was sick.

Phillip: We caught you at 19 to 20, I think. But the signs that people hold up and they're [00:22:00] like, I trained, it didn't. Like talking about cheering for at a race, right? Like a, like holding the sign a train months to hold the sign.

Yeah. Yeah. I rang that cowbell for two or three. Who trains for that? I didn't train for that. My arm hurts. That's really tough. Yeah. Yeah. I did no training at all. I've, the car loading,

Chris Detzel: I've done Houston a lot and I've also been a spectator and with Leah doing the marathon and stuff, some.

It's a great race. Two is, spectating is cool because you can go from one place and then jog over to another place. You know what I mean? And spectating different, miles of the, and you get to see some elites, Houston's a great race, but

Colin: yeah.

Chris Detzel: So how'd you do, Colin? So your buddy was gone?

Yeah. And let you down a little, but, so

Colin: it was ki it was really wild. Sucks because we'd both gotten sick two weeks beforehand. So both of us, I think we both ran one time before the actual marathon, during our taper. Which is not how you should do a taper, by the way. I ran three miles and it was like, oh, I feel really bad.

Chris Detzel: That's in two weeks that's all you ran was three miles, before the race. Yeah. Okay. Yeah,

Colin: it was, yeah.

Chris Detzel: [00:23:00] Mentally that really is a tough thing.

Colin: Sure. Yeah. And I ended up running a 3 34, which I was super happy with. Pretty good. Yeah. I stoked on it. It was really great. And so it was cool.

I found a group of women who are trying to qualify for Boston around mile 13. I said, okay, this will motivate me to help them with their mental game so I can help myself with my mental game. That's how my MO is if I'm helping you, it's probably gonna benefit me in some way.

Chris Detzel: I take, I just think that, during stuff like that is you do whatever it takes to mentally get past that next step, right? Like

Colin: it gives you some structure, right? Yeah. It gives you something to look for, if I didn't have that, and this is really like a lot of like, why I love running is if I didn't have something to look forward to, the rest of that race was gonna be awful.

I was at mile 13 and I was like, I'm just gonna have to endure this whole thing. But it's now I have I ran with one of them until about mile 21 and that's when I was like, all right, my body is starting to like, give a little bit and I'm starting to like crash. [00:24:00] But. I was stoked on 3 34.

I was on pace for three 30 for the whole marathon, and then I lost about four minutes. Yeah. So

Chris Detzel: we'll get back to you 'cause I have some questions about some ice cream, but, so Phillip, one thing that I remember is that you are hardcore and really just doing some stuff, but then you guys have a baby.

And I think that's been quite the adjustment. Can you talk about that?

Phillip: Sure. Yeah. I'm trying to think leading up to. Owen was born in OC, or, so he was supposed to be born in October. It was November of 2023. So he's 19 months old now. That season I ran, I did run a marathon leading up to him being born as a last hurrah, I remember that you were there. We could tell that story too if we want. But switch into half marathon mode after. After he was born, just trying to get miles in and stay in shape. And then this last summer, we, last summer was crazy. We moved and what else happened? [00:25:00] There was a lot of, there was like storms that happened last summer that really, that impacted us a lot.

And so it was like I'd be in decent shape and then I'd just stop running for a week or two and then pick it back up. And then.

Chris Detzel: It wasn't as consistent as you'd like. It wasn't

Phillip: as, yeah wasn't as consistent, but really like once, that Houston training block that Colin was talking about, once, that, once we got kind of line, I got lined up with that, like I jumped straight back into September, this last year was 80 or 90 miles, and then I I flipped it over, I doubled, like I doubled that and just jumped back, like straight back into like I was marathon.

So 80 or 90

Chris Detzel: miles a month. And then you doubled that to 180. And then. 'cause some people I talk to are doing 80 or 90 a week, so I'm just trying to make sure.

Phillip: Yeah. A month.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Good. A hundred to me, 180 to 200 miles a month I think is plenty.

Colin: Yeah, absolutely is.

Chris Detzel: I'm hitting right now, like 160 ish, 150, just to try to stay in shape and, but I think that in general, it's really difficult to get. [00:26:00] 60 to 80 to a hundred miles a week, period.

Colin: Yeah, sure. Even 50, that's all you're doing, right? Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Even 50 is tough.

Colin: Yeah,

Chris Detzel: I agree.

50 to me is, my body can only take probably 40 ish miles a week, and that's, when I start getting higher miles like that, my things start to break down

Colin: yeah, me too. Yeah. My peak is, my peak during my best marathon was 64.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is, yeah. Is good. So Phillip, what's next for you?

What do you think?

Phillip: Yeah, so the plan, this, we talked about Houston, right? So that was a goal. Goal was to see where I was at, didn't run the race, still have the bib on the wall as a reminder. Signed up for Houston, signed up for Houston in 2026. So the goal was to do that marathon, but depending, again being a dad now it's running is still important.

Like I, I love running, but it's. A marriage and running. It's like it's third or fourth down the list. And there's so many things that come up that you can't plan for and sometimes it's just getting [00:27:00] sleep. But not doing Houston. But Owen's getting older so he's getting older and things like that.

Yeah, he's sleeping better. And we. We take them out for runs and that sort of thing. But it was like after Houston, I got sick before Houston and then had a, I had a marathon. I did Mount Charleston in April, and between that, in the end of that Houston block and Mount Charleston I got sick three times

Chris Detzel: east, dude.

Phillip: So I would get, start training getting better shape and then would be off for a week or two. And then this is what we call real

Chris Detzel: life, yeah.

Phillip: It's real life, right? Yeah. Yeah. I feel I feel like not having kids is like playing. It's like life on like easy mode.

You cheat mode in a way. And then kids, it's just having a kid. It's, it's great, but it does change things. It changes your

Chris Detzel: life. Yeah. That's, it's just you have to try to figure out how to deal with it, especially when they're so young. It's, your life is not gonna be running anymore.

Like it's gonna be, the first two to three years is try to manage the baby in together, and then, it's a whole new life for the two of you. And you're [00:28:00] adjusting all that. It's finding a

Phillip: balance, right?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And then you running a new house needs to be a

Phillip: part of it, right?

Chris Detzel: Trying to. Figure that out. That's a lot of stuff. Yeah.

Phillip: Yeah. So to answer your question, I've got I'm gonna do the DRC half in November and I'm gonna see where I'm at training wise from half. Yeah. And if things go well and I feel like I. Can put a good effort into Houston, then I'll do the marathon for Houston and I can always, I've got a, I'm gonna have a calendar reminder the day I can switch that, switch Houston over, I'm doing a half of, do the half marathon.

Chris Detzel: Good idea. I'm doing a half. So maybe if you decide to switch there, you and I can race it together.

Colin: I'll see you there.

Chris Detzel: You gonna do the half, Colin?

Colin: Yep.

Chris Detzel: Ooh, that'd be fun to race it. So just quickly, I have a half coming up in September, I'm gonna do the downhill Revel race in Utah. Going back. Huh? Yeah, I'm going back.

So I just did a quick hit like, Hey, I'm gonna leave Thursday night, Friday, get the stuff, and then Saturday run it and then leave Saturday [00:29:00] night or Saturday evening. 'cause I prd on that course. Yeah. And so I wanna try to PR again anyways, point is I'm gonna do. I might do DRC half, I'm not sure yet.

For sure I'll do Dallas half, but then I'm gonna do really well in Houston 'cause I ran a 1 31 or two last time I ran there. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to see if I can break one 30 in Houston. Hey, definitely wanna break, because that's just a flat, it's not a downhill. Definitely my goal in September is to go faster, like a 1 25, 1 26 if possible.

I don't know. 'cause downhill is possible. I think

Colin: that's awesome.

Chris Detzel: But so would love if you so Colin, maybe you and I can kinda see where, what do you think you are? What do you think? What's your goal for the half?

Colin: Yeah, so after this full I'm taking a year off till Houston half to focus on five Ks and

Chris Detzel: yeah, speed work.

We're doing some of that

Colin: and yeah. I really have You run a

Chris Detzel: 5K recently? What have you done?

Colin: Oh man. I ran one in February and then February. We'll, yeah. Yeah. [00:30:00] Hi we will probably get into this 'cause I am, you're gonna ask about ice cream stuff, but like I'm a big proponent of mental health and running and making sure you're okay.

And I was going through some stuff Okay. In April that came up and I was like, okay. So I'm hoping to do one in August and lined up some, maybe three or four for the fall.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Colin: I don't know if Dallas is still, the Dallas Marathon's still doing their eight k, but that would be a fun distance to go try out.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Colin: So the goal would be to, for Houston, I would like to see a 1 28, 1 27. Nice. I should stick together. I think Boston has convinced me that I should always run sub three regardless of my age. So I will just forever be sub three.

Chris Detzel: What's your best marathon?

Colin: I've ran a three 18. Okay. With a lot of Phillip pointed out a lot of asterisk for me that I should put on that race. 'Cause I was going for a three 10 that day and he was like, your wife just had surgery. You were not sleeping in your bed. You were helping her do stuff like at [00:31:00] 3:00 AM in the morning and like you still trained for a marathon.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Look, I. This is real life. This is things that just happen in life that you have to deal with and Yeah. And I think that's, it's the beauty about running to me is that there's always another race and Sure. Sometimes running will let you down, but sometimes you do amazing things and you're just pumped Uhhuh that you did this.

And then sometimes you have to go back to the drawing board, Colin, and say, I'm gonna do some five Ks. I wanna get fast again. Which I'm not saying you're not fat, but get some of that speed back and then just kill it, in January or whatever. Yeah. It's that

Colin: different, it's that different muscle group too.

And also man, I have a memory that haunts me from high school. So I was a theater kid, he's in his own head. I was a theater kid and I remember walking down the hallway where like our athletics part of the school was at and this guy just asked me, he goes, are you a runner? And I was like, no man.

And I was like, dang. He was definitely recruiting me for the cross country team.

Chris Detzel: [00:32:00] Definitely don't, this is what you're saying.

Colin: I was like, I do improv. Have you heard of that?

Chris Detzel: Hey, I used to do that. That's fun.

Colin: Improv is fun.

Chris Detzel: Phil Improv in your past. Didn't do that kind stuff.

Phillip: No. I'm odd man out.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. So we won't talk about that.

Back in the day you used to make some ice cream. It was really good. I did. Yeah. Like literally you would make ice cream and then you started selling ice cream. Yeah. I think, and then all of a sudden you didn't do it. It's yeah. I mean it was, I felt like it was blowing up for you.

Things were. You were making it, but it was a lot of work and effort. 'cause you had a full-time job, you were doing running and, all these things that you're doing. I don't know, so I was like, I don't tell Leah, I was like, he keeps making ice cream, now he's selling it and maybe he goes into business.

Who knows? And so I thought that was a potential avenue. And obviously it didn't happen. But, I'm curious like, because it was for the runner, like at first it was just for the runners, and so you would have some ice cream [00:33:00] there and it was really good. So I don't I'm curious, I'm trying to bring this back to running.

Colin: Yeah. Oh yeah, we can. Sure. Yeah. So as I mentioned previously, I'm a teacher, right? So when COVID happened, my job became nothing. I would hold tutoring hours 'cause I was supposed to in my hammock and I would fall asleep during them because no one came to them, right? So

Chris Detzel: no kid learned anything during COVID.

Yeah.

Colin: And then I literally a week into March, 2020 you're quarantine, and it's running's the thing I can really focus on right now. I injured my calf and wow. Yeah, so I was out for three months until, a chiropractor opened up and was deemed essential. So I needed something to do, like I needed some sort of structure.

And we had an ice cream maker we had never used. And so guy through Instagram, we followed his recipe and I got into making ice cream and I started sharing it with people. And people were like, this is really good. And then we were like, this is really good. And during COVID it's.

I don't know how deep you want to go, but it's interesting [00:34:00] time, right? A lot of like cultural turmoils happening, like George Floyd, black Lives Matter movements happening. We're starting to question the idea of social media itself. Yeah. And yeah, I was running it through social media and.

Essentially I got to this place where without divulging too much, I realized like I wasn't paying attention to the stuff that mattered. And when I was making all this ice cream and I was actually talking to people who were like, how much money do you want to start your business? And I was like, ah, I'm a teacher and I don't know what you're even asking me.

Like what? I remember someone had just asked me and they were just like, what do you want out of this? And that stuck in my head. I wish my story was like one of and I thought deeply about it and I came to my own conclusion and said I should just quit. That's not what happened. My life like hit this like crashing point.

And so yeah, this is why I'm a big fan of like mental health and running and everything and taking like time to process through stuff. 'cause I [00:35:00] was having panic attacks. Yeah, I just had realized, I was like, I never wanted this to be a business. Like I, I wanted to do this for fun. People thought I was leaving teaching.

I love teaching it a lot of fun. You didn't, that,

Chris Detzel: you didn't wanna get that around to the school, I'm sure.

Colin: Yeah, no, even, so the thing was with my boss was like, I'm so excited when you open your ice cream business. And I was like, what is happening right now? I was like, this is not what I wanted.

But I had pulled like a couple 22 hour days and I was like, this is ridiculous. I can't survive on this. And, yeah. So after that, I, yeah, I just quit and I'm still making ice cream. I just don't do it every week. It's more like I do it in summers when I have a lot of time off. But yeah for me, that was like a big reveal of okay, what do I say no to?

What's the healthy subtraction I need to do in my life, and what is the things that I wanna say yes to?

Chris Detzel: Did you. Think about did running, did you stop running during that time too? Or did you kinda when you stopped doing the ice cream, what, 'cause I feel like you disappeared for a little while.

It

Colin: [00:36:00] so

Chris Detzel: Like completely disappeared. I was like, yeah,

Colin: I don't even know

Chris Detzel: where he is anymore. Did he

Colin: Running would get sacrificed a lot. Yeah. But yeah, no, I took a step away from DRC I, like I said, I was like starting to have panic attacks and started realizing like. My mental state, like I'm not.

Okay. And that was starting to pop up in 2020 a lot. And as I said before, like I'm a millennial, so like I've had my phone in my hand since like I was 12 and just going through the whole process of what social media does to a brain and now everyone's like finally catching up of there's that book, the Anxious Generation that was like blowing up everywhere now.

But I realized like. There was an image I was presenting to the world that I'm okay, I'm a runner. I'm making ice cream. I'm a high school teacher, and I was like loving the image because everything that I was doing looked really good. And then like on the inside I was like having panic attacks and it's I'm not okay.

My body was telling me we can't like sustain this. [00:37:00] And so running would get cut quite a bit and then. When I hit like my moment where I felt like my life was falling apart. Yeah. I had to take a step back. I was like, I need to figure out what's going on with me. And so I took a huge break. I don't think I did a marathon for man two years.

And. Came back. There's a

Chris Detzel: lot of pressure too whenever you go through marathon training and Sure. Actually hit a marathon, which some of that's good, but Yeah, absolutely. But it sounds like for some of the things that you're going through, the ice cream thing, you got the work thing, you got COVID, you got, running.

That's a lot going, going on for you. Yeah. So social media maybe.

Colin: Yeah, so I, I did the work as the millennials say, on myself and. Yeah I'm in a place now where I can generally like, look at myself and say, wow, I really who I am. I like who I'm becoming. And with running even there, it like became this image, like you were saying, like you saw all this potential in me.

Other people had saw this potential in me and were like, you could probably qualify for Boston. And I [00:38:00] was like, feeling all this pressure to do that. And so when things were starting to fall down, like when your whole life is trying to run at like an a plus level. You're not gonna sustain that at all.

Yeah. I

Chris Detzel: apologize if I put too much pressure on you. No, you,

Colin: No. Absolutely. It's like Chris Dettol, this is my stuff. You are not responsible for my stuff. I like

Chris Detzel: No. I get that. I'm just saying you don't wanna put unnecessary pressure on people.

Colin: No, you didn't. That's the thing. You're a great runner. That's what I see. Absolutely. And I, I still feel that way, but now it's more like. We'll get back to running right now. So you can get stuck into this idea of I need to run this pace at all times. Like easy runs should be this, fast runs should be this.

And I'm very much in like the place now where it's your watch, I think I got this from Mark Coogan. Your watch doesn't tell you how fast to run. It tells you how fast you ran. And that difference right there for me was like, oh, okay. So I can run tempo, effort and not tempo pace and still get the same benefits.

'cause my body absolutely is telling me now. And [00:39:00] so like I think you kinda get stuck into this mindset of like even just with the way our education system's set up, but like that you are your brain, right? And that's all that matters for you. And so it's like your brain says you have to run this number, but your body is literally telling you I can't do this.

Like I can't keep doing this. And I'm a very big proponent of hey, that's what we need to be doing. So like even this year when I knew, I was like, oh, I'm about to go through some stuff in April. I was like, my runnings didn't cut back. I ran 30 miles that month. Yeah,

Chris Detzel: Shit happens, right?

And that's right.

Colin: Yeah. And so I'm back at it. Now we're getting back into it. We're gonna sign up for 5K and we run a fast time, hopefully, and we'll see what happens.

Chris Detzel: So Leah's a big proponent of, she had a coach for many years and her coach said, instead of thinking of a time to run, when you're doing your speed work and things like that, you might think of 5K speed or half marathon speed, effort.

So looking at effort rather than times. And so it took her a bit to get to that. Yeah. But I like that mentality as well was like, I just wanna run. [00:40:00] Fast on this particular day or pace or whatever when it comes to tempo, and not worry about the exact time and things like that.

Yeah. So Phillip, I'm curious. Do you have specific goals, like for when you look at a half marathon or even this full, do you kinda look at number, Hey, sure, yeah, my best is three 30. I don't even know what your best is. To be honest, I don't really run marathons anymore because as Colin, suggests to me that's too much pressure, and my, I just don't like it, I just don't, but a lot of people do and I've done 'em, but I'm curious to, to understand more of what your thinking is around that.

Phillip: I think for me, marathon wise, my best is a three 16 and change. Oh damn. Closer, three 17. Wow. Something a little faster than calling the marathon, really.

And everything else. Everything else slower for now. I. I think I really think I could do ideal, like an ideal situation. I think close, I think I do close to a three hour marathon maybe a high two. Very high two, as far as putting in that type of [00:41:00] work right now, I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know when that'll be, but I, in my head that's the, that's a goal for down the line. It's been a goal for a while.

Chris Detzel: Have you started, have you thought about like the people you train with? So for example. I'm not saying not to treat with Colin, but what I'm saying is like when you go through some of the, there's groups out there now, literally like Pegasus, or let's just say Pegasus, for example. These guys, for the most part, a lot of those folks, women, men, are running three hours and under and they're doing specific training thing Now. It's a lot of pressure and a lot of effort. But every one of them, under three hours are close to it.

And so there's something said about specific groups that can hit those times. Putting yourself around those kinds of people on a consistent basis.

Phillip: Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking about that a lot recently. Just to, 'cause my, my, my schedule's different now. DRC, Tuesday night runs don't make sense.

Yeah. That's when Owen goes to bed. That's, that's [00:42:00] that's working in of itself. And so I've been doing Tuesday morning track runs. Like I've, I felt like with kind of stripping down everything and kind of building everything back, similar to it's probably influence Call and a little bit, but really to take time to okay, I wanna do a two, two mile warmup and then we get.

To the track, and I want to do, I want to, let's do the drill, like the drills that Meb, that people talk about, like form drills and that sort of thing, like things that probably should be doing, focusing on doing a track workout and a cool down. And then let's put some strength I need to run, or I need aerobic exercise and that sort of thing.

But I need strength too, right? So I need to start putting all these. These pieces in place do

Chris Detzel: some pushups and lunges and things like

Phillip: that. Exactly. And just to be able to, pick up Owen. So ano along those lines, running with guys at the, the group at the track, like that wasn't that was just, I knew a, the track was open right.

There are only a few tracks that are open in Dallas. So [00:43:00] finding a track. Okay. I've, I know where that track is. I know it's open, it's easy. I'm gonna go there. I don't know who's gonna be there when I get there. I know that Colin what? Colin's gonna run with me and a few other guys and we show up and you're there and other people are there and, but there was a quote the other day that I heard Cooper Flags.

I think his mom. Cooper Flag Dallas Maps Cooper, anyways. But I thought it was really, it was like, I think his mom told him this. She said, if you're the best guy in the gym, you need to find a new gym. And I'm not saying that, again, I'm not saying I was the best in DRC, but I was working up towards, I was fast, faster end of DRC.

And my schedule's different now. So it's like shifting a little bit to fit that schedule. But we go out to the track and the runners that are there. It's holy cow. Like every, it seems like everyone there this, it's not you see the slots, so those guys, when you see

Chris Detzel: them you're like, oh my God.

But they're running two 30 or two, four sure marathons.

Phillip: But what's fun about like the drc, it's very structured, right? But where we met was [00:44:00] fast track, right? You get. You get a larger group together of somewhat a broad range, but there were two or three groups. And for Fast Track when we do that remember that?

And we'd show up. Our first year it was me and Rebecca and a few other people, and we were in the A group and we're like, we don't know any of these runners. And we call ourselves the A minus group because we were, we'd straggle back, we like, we'd hardly make it to the track in time to get start the workout right.

But that was Chris, that's where we met. That's where Colin and I met. You're doing those workouts at your own pace, but you're seeing what other people do. You're pushing yourself differently than you would be if you're with a group of a tighter group. Yeah. So all that to say is I really think that and the group dynamic has changed a lot in the last, like since I started running there, there are so many groups that are out there and you can really find, find your people a lot easier, find your niche.

Yeah, exactly.

Chris Detzel: I think, I see so. DRC has evolved over the years, in, in good ways or whatever. But the one thing that I've always seen is those faster [00:45:00] runners and even, WRRC, like White Rock running co-op, started because a group of runners wanted to push themselves to another limit, right?

Yeah. And so that's really when they first started in like 2012 or 11 or something like that. But. I've seen that a lot with DRC, for example, is you have these really fast runners that wanna get to these for a half or, sub threes for a full, they have to move on. So they, they've hit their niche with DRCI mean, that's, the beauty about DRC is it's very structured.

You can find a group that you know generally within your pace range, and it teaches you a lot because, as a new runner, man, you just dunno anything. Yeah. That I think that without that tructure, the beauty s today. Yeah, exactly. The beauty though today is once you have that structure and that mindset, to go to that next level, there's tons of groups out there, yeah. Like absolutely the slots or the fastest within Dallas, then you got Pegasus, which is that, also that next level of kinda slots and then [00:46:00] other groups like that can help you get to that. And I believe a hundred percent believe that community is the key to really be able to do that.

Finding your friends that are similar paces, similar kind of, or finding new friends that can push you. Kinda what you said about the Cooper flag thing is if you're the best person in the room, then it's time to find other people to play with, not to ditch people, I'm not saying that, but it's to better yourself.

Running is somewhat of a selfish sport. If you wanna hit these times and goals I'm now, I wanna hit times and goals, but I see it now as, man, I get to run with people, my friends, I get to see you at the track and what are you guys doing? I'll just do that. Like that kind of stuff.

I just see now is it fun thing? Yes. I want to hit prs, especially in the half full. I don't really care about, I'm like, I don't really know why y'all do that, but, it is what, it's is there anything I should have asked you guys that I haven't, I'm sure I missed a ton of things.

Anything that can, that you can think of that we didn't talk about?

Colin: I think it would just be helpful since I feel like we've all seen like really [00:47:00] significant improvements over the course of the last few years with our running, like what would you attribute as maybe not the most important thing, but like a key thing that you changed up from what you were doing before to now that you feel like has attributed to your success.

Chris Detzel: So you're asking me that,

Colin: I'm asking everybody that. Go ahead, Phillip. This is my podcast now. Perfect.

Phillip: The miles and the having that, I think running with DRC introduced that the community, the accountability and the structure that wasn't there in my life before that. So getting and then, and getting with people, running with people that like you kinda like we talked that path we were talking about, like finding people to run with and really, and really putting those miles and putting in the work, whether just, miles and cross training those few things. And that's the biggest thing for me, I think.

Chris Detzel: Both of you have taken leadership roles, both DRC and other things.

Colin: Yeah,

Chris Detzel: for whatever, positive neg, I don't know.

But it's, but you learn a lot from some of that stuff [00:48:00] and for me, for the last few years, it's been one. Certainly, I think putting in the miles is key. Putting in the work is key. You have to do those things, whether it's, long miles or even the faster miles, my philosophy for a long time was definitely put in the miles, but I like to race a lot, whether it's five Ks, a lot of half marathons, throughout the years to get that race day experience.

I believe that before you go on your main race and main race day, that you have to, race a little bit before. Yeah. To understand what it's like. Because what happens is on race day, and if you're not experienced and you take, if you took a complete year off, you forget some how the nerves are, Hey, you have to go to the bathroom before, or, like little things that, or. Eat what do you eat during that race or whatever. And so you know, if you can get some five, 10 Ks in, even a half marathon in before, a few months or a month or so before, I think that's key. And then two is, look, running is hard to stay motivated sometimes.

But I love it for the community aspect. I love it for a lot of different reasons. It keeps me in shape, keeps me [00:49:00] skinny, I love all of that, but how do I motivate myself? One of the ways was. Why don't I start a podcast? How do I keep running and start this podcast? So in October I started a podcast and I wanted to talk to people all over the DFW people I would never talk to or run with because maybe they're too fast or maybe they just wouldn't, I don't know about 'em, and people start recommending and everybody wants to be recognized.

And I've done podcasting for years and years, for other things, but never for something that I love. Telling Leo. It's like, why not start a niche running podcasts in Dallas Fort Worth? You know what I mean? Yeah. Nobody else is doing anything like it really, whether I talk to race directors or whatever.

So I think motivation is key, to continue it going. You have to get up and do the work, whether you want to or not, whether, but. I find different things to keep me going. I'm a pretty, hardcore focused guy, kinda Colin, sometimes we get too much into our own little hobbies and, we, we've gotta be realistic too to [00:50:00] say, look, this is a hobby.

I'm not getting paid for it. And even if I was, I have full-time job, I gotta do these things. So I'm in that right now. Yeah. I'm spending my own money doing this thing and I'm fine with it. But the point is like you gotta find things that continue to motivate you. Motivation's not the main factor, but it is a factor in, into keeping you going.

Colin: Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

Chris Detzel: Talk to people that are way faster than you by hours and upon hours, and it's pretty cool to listen to kinda what they're doing. Like one dude was, yeah, I was doing 120 miles a week. Oh. I was like I'll never do that, but. I'm doing 40 miles a week now.

Colin: But I feel like even with some of the faster people, it's like when you look at some of their plans, you're like, I'm not that far off from what you are doing.

You're just doing it. Like for me, like I, the big thing was like balance. Like you're doing this just a little bit differently than I am. Maybe I'm doing too much. And it was like to my detriment. My first marathon was not great. It wasn't bad, it was just wasn't great. But I think [00:51:00] I ran more miles that time, and now I'm like running less, but I'm running smarter.

That's a big thing

Chris Detzel: That's, I think that's one thing you learn. I talked to this guy the other day. He's now a two 40 marathoner, right? I think he might've hit 2 39. I don't remember. But point is he wasn't always a two 40 marathoner, right? Like he was. I think he ran four something then threes and then, so I mean it's a continuous journey if you wanna get better from a time standpoint.

But now, although I still wanna get better, how much more, I mean I'm 50, right? So how ma many more prs do I have? I don't know. Like I think it's still doable for a half, but

Colin: yeah,

Chris Detzel: maybe it's not, I don't know.

Colin: But man I'm 31 and I sometimes think through that and I'm like, how many more prs? When is the down at this point?

You have a lot, Mike.

Chris Detzel: I think that, the way I've been told, and the way I now look at it is, your twenties is different than your thirties, different than your forties and different fifties. You're not the same person, and especially Colin, you've been running for a long time, since your mid to late twenties.

And it's, your body is different. You're [00:52:00] getting older. I'm not saying you still got PRS in you for sure. Yeah. But some, at some point you gotta think about, I'm not 30 anymore, I'm not 40 anymore. Yeah. So that is, that becomes a factor at some point.

But for now you're fine. I think both of you have got some really good racing in you. But guys, it's been good.

Colin: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: It's already been an hour here we are and talked about a bunch of stuff.

Colin: Yeah. Good luck naming this episode. Yeah,

Chris Detzel: It's, it won't be hard. All right guys, so thank you guys for coming on.

I really do appreciate it. And thank you for those that are. Have tuned in to another DFW Running Talk. Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter. It's DFW Running talk.substack.com. Please subscribe. You'll get all of the stuff about the episodes and everything else on that newsletter. Please don't forget to rate and review us.

Really appreciate everyone again listening in. Until next time, Phillip Colin, thank you both for coming on today. Thank you. Thanks. All right.