Ray Nicholas: Building Running Community in North Dallas

DFW Running Talk: Ray Nicholas
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

All right. Welcome to another DFW B Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we have special guest Ray Nichols. Ray. How are you?

Ray Nichols: Good. Chris de drizzle, how are you? That actually would be a good, either a wrapping name or a good wrestling name.

Chris Detzel: I don't wanna say what it sounds like to me, but it just doesn't sound like a good nickname,

It could also sound like

Ray Nichols: a snack too.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Snack or, something that a man

Ray Nichols: snack.

Chris Detzel: Exactly. How are you

Ray Nichols: doing? Excellent. How are you?

Chris Detzel: I'm good man. I appreciate you getting on. It's and I was telling you through the pre-show. Yeah. I call it a pre-show, like five minutes.

But I've had a couple of people on the podcast that have mentioned your name, like during the pre-show or after, and of course I've known you for years, so within the running DFW running community overall. But, I've never really had a sit down conversation with you and, I feel like the influence you've had within the DFW, from a running [00:01:00] standpoint.

It's been good. I think, you've had a few people mention your name and I'm like, I gotta get this guy on. I gotta get to know him a little bit more. So here we are.

Ray Nichols: Excellent. Do you remember when we first met? It was an awkward encounter. I don't know if you remember, I

Chris Detzel: don't know,

Ray Nichols: like you tell me maybe.

So it was at the airport. It was April 2019. They're all getting loaded up. To get on the plane to go to Boston. And I was, can I remember that? Yeah. I was on the floor rolling and stretching because I was working through some injuries. And Logan Sherman, he gave me some PT things to work and then everybody was looking at me like I was insane.

'cause I had one of those lacrosse balls and I was just rolling my hamstrings and my calves. And then you and Leah sit down and of course this is normal for you guys. And then we just started talking right. And at that point I think you'd already know, you've known Laura for a while. I think Laura Osky now Laura Nichols, but I knew who she was.

Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. That was the first time we met, like getting [00:02:00] on the same plane going to Boston.

Chris Detzel: That's, yeah, I do remember that. And I do remember talking to her and I was like, who's this guy? Like I don't but yeah, that's, and I think there was another time we met, like in a, I feel like we were in a bus or something.

Maybe it was the plane, I don't know. But.

Ray Nichols: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: But but yeah, I think that it's crazy where you meet people. You're going to Boston then as well.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. It was my first, it was my thing. Yeah. Okay.

Chris Detzel: How many Bostons have you done?

Ray Nichols: Two so far.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Do you plan on going back or

Ray Nichols: 19? Yeah. I think I'm gonna be one of those like every three to five years, just because I don't want it to lose its magic because.

The cream of the crop. I always tell people it's the Super Bowl of running. I agree. And I want to keep it fresh. I think Leah's 12,

Chris Detzel: she just did 12. Yeah,

Ray Nichols: Amazing. 12 in a

Chris Detzel: row, as a matter of fact, and she actually qualified for 13, so I'm sure she's gonna go. That's awesome. Yeah.

Ray Nichols: Is it, is this your first podcast back post Boston?

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ray Nichols: Yeah, it is. That's awesome.

Chris Detzel: Got I feel like five more schedule already, but [00:03:00] I really get to enjoy Boston this year. Now as a spectator, obviously I've done the 5K several times and love it. I did it this time, but I think that I. It is truly the best of the best.

If you get in through a qualification, like there's no better race out of the seven majors. Now that is, it's the best of the best. I'm not saying you don't have the best there, but this is the best of the best in the age groups. Does that make sense?

Ray Nichols: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And even the best come, for the most part, the atmosphere is.

To me is amazing. Like this time I, my, my wife got the something unicorn club thing.

Ray Nichols: Oh yeah.

Chris Detzel: And so you get to have a nice little she let a guest come, or she bought, we bought the guest pass. It's not free, but you still get to do it. And I get to be on. They had this breakfast that was call free 'cause we paid for it.

But we can go right there to the starting line. Basically at this hotel it's the Marriott, something Westin, and in the morning you get to see all the runners come up, all the unicorn folks. I think it's 10 years and [00:04:00] 10 years or more if you've done the Boston Marathon. So you have breakfast even for the guests.

So you get to all the runners there that are part of that, and then they can walk over to the bus that's right there outside of the hotel that. Takes 'em, to the beginning and then they end right there at the finish and the hotel's right there. But for me, I to go to the we'll get to in a minute, but.

Ray Nichols: No worries. No, this is good. I didn't know they had this. This is good to know.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it's good. It's pretty cool. And so I get to go into the, get the stands and cheer on. So I get a video of Leah and get to see all the runners. Now do it at one o'clock. So they didn't do it like right before the really fast people or the, if you're running like a three hours or below, you're not gonna see some of those people.

But for the most, I get to tell my wife, she. 3 35. And it was cool 'cause I got to see her barely because it's hard to tell, so many people running, but you could see 'em took a video, pictures, things like that. And just the atmosphere was amazing. Then we went back to that hotel, the west end and she got know she got lunch and things like [00:05:00] that.

And so it was a lot of fun. So to me that, that was a little different for me. Never did it. I may, I've been a lot, but I've not done anything like that that's incredible. Yeah. So atmosphere's great. So I just wanted to agree with that before we go into your journey.

Ray Nichols: Yeah, what I was gonna say, like people often ask me like, what's your favorite part of mos?

And people are like, oh, it's gonna be Wesley. No, like my, actually, my favorite part is before the race. Like it's so electric. Like when they call the elites, they're like, all right, elites go line up. And then literally two minutes after alright, group a blah, blah, go up. And you're like.

Holy shit. That's me. And then you go down and it's about I wanna say a half a mile walk to the starting line. So you're walking through these neighborhoods and people are already outside cheering for you, like you're not even close to the starting line. And people are like, yay. Like cheering you on.

Telling you to, you'd use the bathroom, blah, blah, blah and you're walking next to these amazing women and amazing men to the [00:06:00] starting line, and you're like this is amazing. I get to be here with the best of the world, and it's no greater That to me, like that feeling, just it's incredible.

That's my favorite. Part of Boston.

Chris Detzel: Leah mentioned something similar to that the other day. She said, if you could ever go to the starting line and just see the magic just before the, where the race starts, the things that they're doing, saying music, all this stuff that's happening.

Of course I've never run Boston, but she talks about it kinda like you did and it's certainly magic. One of that thing, so as I mentioned before, there's been a few people talk about you and the running community and. I knew you were in the running community. I knew you ran your fairly fast, I didn't know, how much you are actually in involved and engaged in the running community.

Meaning, just like you've run groups and had groups thing and things like that, and I wanna talk more about that. But first, let's talk a little bit about when you started running and why. What's going on there? 'Cause sometimes I think you guys doing all these marathons, I'm like, man, have you, you have [00:07:00] done a marathon of many?

And I'm like, it's just insane.

Ray Nichols: My, my running journey's a little bit fragmented. There's about three chapters. So one of my buddies in middle school was like, Hey, they want me to try out for the cross country team and track team. Just join me. I don't want to go by myself. And I was like, all right I'll go.

Why not? Let's give it in high school. It was eighth grade going into our freshman year. So we went to the camp. Ran a few times and I was like, ah, I don't know. This is for me. And my buddy's we have to do this. This is good, blah, blah, blah. So I let him talk me into it.

So yeah, like my, my, my at that time, my passion was basketball like Dan Danny Rojas from. From from Ted, like basketball was life basketball. Like I carried my basketball everywhere I went. There wasn't a time I didn't have a basketball in my hand. So I, but if you only knew

Chris Detzel: in eighth grade or ninth grade that this will help you a lot in basketball, getting in shape and not being so tired from all those.

[00:08:00] Printing you're gonna be doing,

Ray Nichols: yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we went out and I got on the JV team and my friend got on varsity. He was just a different beast, just different animal. So I stuck to it, like you said, to get in shape for basketball. 'cause I made the JV team in high school as a freshman.

So I was like, I'll use cross country to stay in shape. And then eventually I got I got on varsity by my freshman year. I think my first basketball. Or for no for cross country. Cross country. Wow. Sorry. So I think my first 5K was like 24 minutes, and then I got down to like mid 17, my freshman year.

And then I was like, okay, I'll give this a try. And then so just from there just elevated it. And then I remember my sophomore year, we almost made it to state. And at this time I was doing multiple sports at the time. And we just missed state by one spot and we were devastated.

And our coach just. Pulls us aside. And he is he's you guys weren't hungry. You guys didn't want it enough. And we're like, what the heck? And he is and we had a another school that like [00:09:00] just beat us. Like they just beat us every single time. And he is I want you to take a look at that team it was Santa Ana.

'cause I grew up in Southern California, orange proper in Orange County. And then he's look at that team. He's stay trained year round. Like they wanted it more than you guys. And that just stuck with me. We're like, okay, like you're right. Like we have to put more effort in this if we want to make stain and do all this stuff.

So that sophomore year I went to my basketball coach and I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna drop out of basketball and I'm just gonna focus on cross country and track. That's it. I want this real bad. So we train our asses off and California is a little bit different rules in here in Texas.

Like you can't train with a coach for X amount of time. And then in the summer, like we couldn't even meet with our coach until I. End of July. So we were just, every single day, we were just meeting up every morning during the summer and just training that sophomore year, sophomore and senior year.

We made states. I was [00:10:00] able to knock out some huge PR in huge times. What was it? It was incredible. So for my 5K I ran a 15. 32. Dang dude. So yeah, it was, but lemme just

Chris Detzel: tell you something. In college you couldn't win unless you were like running a 1420 or something. No

Ray Nichols: way. No way. Or

Chris Detzel: faster.

Ray Nichols: You would just get Yeah. That time you would just get cooked. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: 15, 30, nothing

Ray Nichols: or whatever.

Chris Detzel: But that's a super fast dude. Yeah. So everybody knows.

Ray Nichols: Just imagine like we, so we're almost the same age. I think I'm maybe five years younger than you.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ray Nichols: The shoe technology in the nineties and early two thousands was, you're just running in waffle shoes.

That's right. I was like, I always think, I was like, what if we had like super shoes back then? What would happen? But of course, those. People that were faster than you would've more incredible times. But that's why records are being broken. But yeah, so yeah, that was my PR 1532 and the 5K.

And then I ran, did we state or

Chris Detzel: you just [00:11:00] went to

Ray Nichols: state? We got third in state.

Chris Detzel: Okay. That's pretty good. Now, all your friends, were they running the same speed you are or close?

Ray Nichols: So our number one guy, I was our number two guy. Our number one guy was, 1450s. Okay. Wow. The dude was incredible. He went to nationals.

He, at the time, I think it was like the foot lock, the Foot Locker championship before Nike took over. So he went to all of that. The dude was just incredible. I wasn't at that level, but I was, so close enough to make state. So that was, I was just happy with that.

Chris Detzel: So if you look back now, just from everything that you know, it sounds like you worked hard.

If you, 'cause you're a lot smarter today as a runner, if you knew what you knew now, then do you think you could even have been faster? Or is it like, no man.

Ray Nichols: I think so because with all the, and I go to my son's track meets now, and I see all the things that they're doing in regards to warmup and all the bands that they have and different tools you have for warmups and injury preventions.

Like back then we [00:12:00] didn't have resistant bands to warm up or we, it is just. You just ran jogged a little bit to warm up. Hour or two, you jogged a little warm up and that was it. You know what I mean? Little stretchy maybe. Yeah. My my coach was a Olympic marathoner so he was very of the mindset, like just warm, just jog.

He wouldn't let a static stretch until after, like he, he would make us warm up and do a little bit of static stretching just to loosen up and do some strides and things like that. Crazy to

Chris Detzel: remember all this.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. And then. Nothing like our kids do today. Like I just see some of the things like my son will warm up for an hour before he even starts his track workouts.

And I'm like, oh man. Like I'm not about that. Life

Chris Detzel: does the workout.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. So he does the hurdles. He does the one 10 hurdles and three hundreds and. He's significantly taller than me. He is like five 11 and I'm five six, so I don't know where those genetics came from, but yeah, so he'll warm up for an hour before he even starts doing his.

How old is he workouts? He's 16. Okay. [00:13:00]

Chris Detzel: I've got

Ray Nichols: a 14-year-old. A 14-year-old. Yeah. So about the same age?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Wow. It's so he's, he doesn't do the mile or cross country or anything.

Ray Nichols: He was built for speed, not distance.

Chris Detzel: Not yet. But speed goes away, and distance starts to come later and you'll have speed and distance maybe.

We'll see. Yeah. It's always fun to watch the kids do that. All right. So you do well in high school. What was next? You said there's a three phased approach here.

Ray Nichols: Yeah so then that was it, and then track, and then I focused on track. Once that was done I was able to run like a 4, 4 18 mile of my senior year.

And then I could never really get a, I think my best two miler was like a nine. 59. That's I, that was just about five minutes. A little under five slightly, because you would do the mile first and then the last event was, yeah, and then I was already cooked by that time, but still pretty good.

I never, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I said like I, I never thought that I would ever be able to run that fast in the mile, because before that it [00:14:00] was like a four something and then we ended up breaking a California school record for the four by one mile. Relay. Ooh, that's awesome.

Chris Detzel: You ran that too.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. Yeah. So it fun, bad to me that's probably like favorite. You're a sprinter.

Chris Detzel: I see a quarter of sprint ish,

Ray Nichols: And that, yeah, it's not a hundred or 200, but yeah, that, that's probably like my favorite race memory of just 'cause we were doing so bad that the first half of that relay and then we just came back and just dominated the field.

It was incredible.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

That's pretty awesome, man. I always loved the 400 or the mile four, the four by one mile or whatever. It was just so fun to watch these people just sprint the quarter and then hand off the batons.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: So you didn't go to college or from a running standpoint.

Ray Nichols: So I, I ran two years and then I got burnt out. Okay. I was just, at that point I was just burnt out. And then that's where. Chapter one ends I, I ran two years collegiately, and then I was like I just can't anymore. I was just burnt out. And then after that I finished school, [00:15:00] but I did everything else but run like I was in a basketball league and, a flag still active.

Softball league. Softball league. I did everything. I started weightlifting

Chris Detzel: it.

Ray Nichols: Yeah, from I would say from 20 to maybe 35, like I did everything but so I had a friend that his dad was the Olympic lifter, so I did that for a while and then did the other sports and then I think

Chris Detzel: that's awesome.

I think that, when you kinda look at, then when you start to get into marathon training or eventually you'll get there, it's probably a good kinda, 'cause a lot of runners just. Do running, and I'm not sure if you kinda mix it up, we'll talk about that later. But my assumption is you at least had that idea of lifting weights is key and hopefully you still have that, 'cause as we get older, it just, yeah. Maybe you just quit doing that and then just ran, I don't know.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. To, to a certain degree. Yeah. To a certain degree. So I knew a lot of the basics because my friend taught me, 'cause like I said, his dad was an Olympic body lifter. And I learned a lot from him.

And then I [00:16:00] got, got away from that. And then from Cal, from California, I moved here to Texas. Back in, I wanna say oh seven, and I worked with this guy that I'm still close with. He played football in college, never went professional. He was, powerlifter Olympic kind of training type guy.

He's Hey, just come lift with me, blah, blah, blah. At the time I was like, maybe like a buck 35. I was small, right. And then we just trained forever. Monday through Friday, we trained hard every day for an hour.

Chris Detzel: 135 pounds.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. At the time. At the time, yeah. Okay. And then it was like one 40 let's just say one 40.

And then I got up to 1 75 for lifting

Chris Detzel: all the muscle, all the

Ray Nichols: lifting. I was 175 pounds, and it, I looked like a gorilla, like to a certain point, like I was just walking on my knuckles. I was like, I was just ginormous. I was I'm short. And then now I'm like, gigantic. I'm just like crawling on my knuckles and grunting what's.[00:17:00]

That's awesome. But then I, and I was like there's no point to this. Yeah. What am I gonna do? I had to get new, I went from a kids, or in kids large to wearing men's medium. I had to get like a whole new wardrobe. And I'm like I can't do anything with this. Then at that point when I, right when I decided to okay, I'm gonna.

Stop lifting, I'm gonna do something else. And this guy found out that I ran in high school and college. He comes up to me and he is like, Hey, I'm gonna do the wounded Warrior half. He served, he was a medic in the army and he is I heard you used to run. Will you train me for. Half marathon were you trained?

Me? Yeah. Pretty much.

Chris Detzel: You never ran a half marathon before? Yeah,

Ray Nichols: I'd only ran one. I only ran one. And I told them that. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, we could train. I've only ran one. I haven't ran one in 15 years. I was like, so we started training and then started entering these races and then I started podium, like second place, third place, winning a couple and a half and no, in like five to [00:18:00] 10 Ks.

And I was like, yeah, 'cause you're fast, dude. You have a lot of

Chris Detzel: ability anyways. Like that's just, yeah. Makes sense. Because you were 35, 40 by then.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. Roughly. Roughly, yeah. So I was like, maybe there's still something in the tank. Who knows? Of course, let's give this a, let's give this a go.

So we ran that half marathon. It was in July in Texas, so it was miserable. And I'm like, screw this. I'm never doing this again. That's exactly what I said. Yeah. So I casually started three months later. Yeah. Three months later. Yeah. So when I turned 30, I was like, I want to do. Things that I've never done before.

Like I want to go, I went skydiving and I'm like, okay, let me train for a marathon. Let me train for the Dallas Marathon. I don't know what I'm doing, but I did a little bit of research, this is 10 years ago I did a little bit of research and you're like, okay, you just do a couple long runs and go.

I did two months of training, months that training and I think I did my highest, I think I did two 18 Milas and I was like, okay, let's go. So I was like, I just wanted to [00:19:00] complete it. That was just the goal. I just wanted to start and finish. So that was like 2014. I did my, the Dallas Marathon was my first finish.

What'd you get? Yeah. 3 42.

Chris Detzel: That's

Ray Nichols: pretty good. My, my goal I was telling people my goal is to have a faster time than Oprah, because I think at that point she ran like a three 50 something. She did? Yeah. Like a four. Wow. She, it was when she lost all that weight. Yeah. Still she started training.

I didn't know she was that fast. Yeah, I think she ran like a four, four or just under four something around that time. And I was like, I have to beat Oprah. I was like, that was my goal. And then, yeah, a 3 42 and then just casually running, and then I was just running by myself. And then and DF W's big but small, so we all run in the same circles, right?

Yeah. So I had some friend groups that were, that was friends with Julie Leno. And she's Hey I'm looking for people to come out, run, come run. And I was like I'll come up. And then I did a run with WRRC, the White Rock Co-op.

Chris Detzel: That's where [00:20:00] everybody starts,

Ray Nichols: it seems. Yeah. Before everybody starts.

Yeah. So I started working with them and I was on and off with running and then then I started hanging out with Javier Tria, and then we hit it off, and then I started training with him, and then that's when I met Laura. And then we figured oh, we were all running the same circle of friends.

We just never met each other. And then Laura was really the one that like, I. Pushed me to do all this. She is you could Boston qualify. At the time I didn't even think, I just wanted to run, just just in a group setting. 'cause I really thrive off of group settings. And then she's no, you can, yeah, same.

You can Boston qualify. You could do all this, you could do all that. And I'm like, I don't know. I ran one marathon and I hated it and Right. And then Javier signed up for Whistle Stop and then they had talked me into it. It wasn't that hard

Chris Detzel: from there.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. And then that was my second one, and then from that one I qualified for Chicago.

And when I qualified for Chicago, that's when Melanie Lawson came. She [00:21:00] moved to Texas and then like her, Javier and I started training for that one. And then she's the one that mentioned you as

Chris Detzel: well? Yeah. Oh yeah. She said

Ray Nichols: yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. She, it was like, I think she was like here a week and then joined WRC and

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Ray Nichols: We found out we had a lot in common. We're like, yeah, we're both training for Chicago. Let's go. That's awesome. And then, yeah, so

Chris Detzel: well, you ran this other one before Chicago,

Ray Nichols: right? So it yeah, so it was whistle stop and then I ran three 10, I think. So significantly improved my time. I knew what I was doing at that time.

Because, yeah, because I was working with Javier and Julie. Julie had already bq, she like to us like she was. She was our leader. We're gonna follow whatever she does and we're gonna, we're gonna make this happen. We, she, she took the lead, took us under her wing per se. Yeah. Ran a three 10 there, qualified for Chicago, and then ran Mesa before Chicago, and that, that was my first bq where I ran like a 3 0 4.

Chris Detzel: So back then was 3 0 5 [00:22:00] for you?

Ray Nichols: It was three 10.

Chris Detzel: Oh, okay. You had to get under three 10 though. And you didn't do that yet?

Ray Nichols: Okay. Not yet. And I made it by when they bring out the qualification time, I made it by seven seconds. I barely made it that year, but I've heard

Chris Detzel: the opposite too.

People miss it by two seconds or something, and I'm like,

Ray Nichols: geez.

Chris Detzel: Wow. Okay. So 3 0 4 now and you're running with Javier and Julie and all of them. And so did you go with the co huge

Ray Nichols: In the co-op? Yeah. Yeah. So you're big in that Solid. Solid, yeah. Solid.

Chris Detzel: Were you living in Dallas at the time?

No,

Ray Nichols: I was living in Plano. Okay. I'm still kind of Carrollton, far North Carrollton, Plano area. And then and then we started running with the fast guys of WRC, like to the point where I was getting dropped every week. Just every week getting dropped. Yeah. And I was like, I,

Chris Detzel: who's the fast people then?

Ray Nichols: Brent Woodle, Randy Burnett, a few other guys. Rick Simons like those guys were just blazing fast and. For weeks. I was just getting dropped. And then I was like, okay. [00:23:00] And then I was like, I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna, I want to get to the point where they're at. So eventually you started hanging on and then going through the workouts and doing all that.

Wow.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty cool. And so you did that and that's.

Ray Nichols: You know what's your be what was Chicago like? Chicago was great. I was running with a injury, a foot injury. I sliced my foot open really bad and I had to stop. It was like a freak slip and slide accident. So I had to stop for yeah, I didn't run for a month prior to the race.

And I ran the race and I did. I did great. I ran I think a. Three 12. That is good considering, yeah. You had a bad foot. And Chicago. Chicago is amazing. I think out of all the ones I ran, I think Chicago is my favorite major by far. I just think everything about Chicago, the atmosphere running through Chinatown.

Have you done Chicago?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Has a few times.

Ray Nichols: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: That means I go, I've only run three marathons and I

Ray Nichols: quit. I was like, screw this. So you're like, I'm done. [00:24:00] No, if you get back into it, I highly recommend Chicago. I love, it's a early start, all the other majors start at 10 30, so late, and then Chicago starts at seven 30.

It's easy. It's easy to get to the starting line. It's a easy finish. The crowd support's amazing Chicago. I just, I enjoyed Chicago a lot. It's really flat, does have a lot of turns, like kind of pin hair turns, but I think that's my favorite major that I've, have you done it more than once? Just once. Okay. I would love to go back, but that means summer training.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. They're so expensive, man. It's like you have to spend a lot of money on these world major marathons. They're just, they're not cheap either, but that's why you do it. 'cause they're so special. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All right. So I like the traveling of it too. No, I do too. I love going out there.

It's a little different. That's partly why we do it is it's a little different than what we're used to and it's good to get away from the same atmosphere day in and day out. People are like, oh, did you do Dallas Marathon? Yes, I do it every [00:25:00] year in order to half, or something you. They're great and they're growing and it's really cool to see Cal, it's something I didn't know.

Cal Town is actually bigger than Dallas. Yeah. They get a lot of support. They get a lot of support. The city supports them in big ways. And I think that's helpful. And I think the city, if Dallas is just a little bit more stingy with things, especially when it comes to running and sports, it seems,

Ray Nichols: yeah.

I would say. But I will say this about the Dallas Marathon, it has. The best pre-race to any race I've ever done. I think really, I think Berlin might be a close second. Just the pre-start before, before the actual race is just phenomenal. It's the best I've ever seen. What do you mean pre-race? What do you mean?

Like when you're in the shoot when you're waiting to start. Just the, you have Hawkeye from. 96.3 hyping up the crowd. And then you have Logan Sherman hyping up the crowd and then you have the big screen and the music's going dark. There's somebody in there and seeing some stuff. Yeah.

Got And then [00:26:00] they're just hyping you up all like that atmosphere that, that pre-race, like it's the best I've ever seen out of any race.

Chris Detzel: That's a good point. You'd hope David had Luca on there, I guess that's ship

Ray Nichols: petition.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I'll say this about that just because, it still stings, and it's obvious that it still stings, others doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. Dude, you didn't get anything for it, and why, anyways. No,

Ray Nichols: he, no, no future draft picks, no money.

Like he, he just wasted at all.

Chris Detzel: Yeah it's dude, what are you thinking? You just wanna give the Lakers a star or something. I don't really get

Ray Nichols: that. Yeah, get LeBron gets his sixth string, but yeah, we digress. Digress.

Chris Detzel: How? All right, so what, let's fast forward then, because you did a lot of marathons and what was your best marathon and where was it?

Ray Nichols: Houston actually. At 2 48.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Ray Nichols: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And so did you, how much did you PR buy from that? [00:27:00]

Ray Nichols: What was the 15 minutes? Dude, you're like 15 minute pr

Chris Detzel: kinda a PR master now. Like you went from three 40 something to three. 10 or whatever

Ray Nichols: That training block was probably the best training block we had.

We were training, like I was training with some of the best athletes in DFW Maddie, Melanie, Jennifer Pope Brett Whittle jump in, Eric Brittle. Taylor Murphy, myself, and we would just we, I think we were training at least four days a week together. We were doing all our track workouts, tempos, long runs.

Like we, we were locked in. Like all of us were locked in like that whole cycle, it never felt like a chore. Sometimes when you go out in training you get that feeling, you're like I gotta do 10 miles and not once. Did that training cycle ever feel like a chore? And you surround yourself with some of the best athletes and you're gonna learn from them.

They're gonna learn [00:28:00] from you. You just feed off each other. And it was a constant brainstorming what if we do this? What if we do that? And everything just, all the pieces just fell together in that training. There wasn't any injuries. I was just diligent about about stretching and rolling every single day, eating well.

It, like I said, like we were all locked in and there was no way I. Wasn't gonna the, my angle goal actually was just to break three, I just, I wanted a 2 59. 59. That was it. I just wanted to break three and then it just, so we're talking about

Chris Detzel: the 2 48 that you hit? 2 48. Yeah. So that's the best training cycle.

Ray Nichols: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: How do you, I'm curious, like your goal was to be three, but what made you go faster? You were going faster than you should have to hit under three. So what.

Ray Nichols: It was about mile 17 where I was like I feel really good. You get that you, I got that runner's high and I was like, I don't feel exhausted at all.

I'm not, I don't feel like I'm gonna hit the wall. Let me just [00:29:00] push it a little bit. Okay. That started pushing a little bit and then just pushing and I think I started at a six 30 pace and. I, my last mile was, I think it was like a 5 48 that I finished. Yes. Like I just I just felt so good.

Have to go look at

Chris Detzel: those splits. I'm sure they're on Strava.

Ray Nichols: Somewhere they're on Strava. And it just every, everything worked out. The weather was great. I actually got in the wrong corral at one point because it was my first time running Houston. And I saw the sign that said A and b Corral enter here.

So I go in and I go to the start, and then one of my friends sees me and she Valerie's what the hell are you doing here? And I'm like. Same thing you're doing gonna race. She's no, you idiot. You're in the other corral. And I'm like, oh my God. And I had five minutes to get out of that shoot because if you've ever, have you ever done Houston?

It's three, like that shoot's three blocks. Yeah. I had to get out that block, go to the right corral and then had get my way. And I couldn't push forward all that [00:30:00] much. I think I was standing next to the three 10 PACE group and I was like, this is fine. This will this.

Yeah, did they have a three hour PACE group or

Chris Detzel: something?

Ray Nichols: Yeah, they had a three hour pace group. Okay. Did you ever get to. This is a funny story, which so I was, I think I was like two or three miles in, and then I get passed by the 3 0 5 PACE Group. And I'm like, what that, what's going on?

I was like, and it psyched me out because like I know what it takes to run a 3 0 5 because I've already done it and I'm like looking at my watch and I'm looking at them and I'm like, what is going on? Is my watch broken? Am I not doing what I'm supposed to be doing? And they passed me.

Like they're long gone. They're flying. They Wow. And they have a huge group. And then eventually I caught up to them at like mile 10 and they, one of my other friends was pacing the three hour group. And they're like, yeah, the 3 0 5 group even passed us. And we're like, what the hell are you doing? And, but for a while, like it, it just mentally [00:31:00] messed with your head.

Messed with my head. Yeah. And I'm like.

Chris Detzel: Were you going faster than you should have then? Or no?

Ray Nichols: I was going about, I think a 6 25 pace at that point. Okay. So I was like, yeah, just a 3 0 5 is about like a 7, 7 0 5, 7 10 pace. So I was like what's going on? So you

Chris Detzel: so you're going, it is probably smart that you at least realized it and you stuck with your pace.

You might have probably gotten a little faster than you should have, but it worked out. Yeah, it worked out well. That's pretty awesome. Now, you've been, something we talked about pre-show slightly, I think in the beginning is you've been part of these communities and did you start your own group and how did that go?

If not, I don't know.

Ray Nichols: The genesis of RTC. Yeah, so to me, all the hard all the big training groups are in Dallas, right? Yeah, that's right. DRC you have White Rock co-op and you have all these groups out in Dallas. And then for us that live up north, didn't have Frisco, McKenney, Carrollton area, you had PRC, but [00:32:00] there, there really wasn't a group that was training just for.

Racing, right? So yeah. Not in Frisco

Chris Detzel: or McKinney or something like that

Ray Nichols: back then. Yeah, exactly. So I was like and it's too hard for me to go down to Dallas on a weekday and then have to come back up for work and it's just near impossible, so I was like we need something up here.

North, north and then north. So with Melanie, we started training, we started going to track on Tuesday and slowly we started growing, like Alex Barientos joined us, and then Maddie joined us. And then we had a solid training group up here that we started, and we would run Tuesdays track.

Thursday tempos and then our long runs and usually our long runs we would go down to the lake with White Rock. Yeah. And then we were, we're doing a training session one day and I was like we need to come up with a club name. Like we need to do something. Like we've been running together for a year now.

Like we just meet up and everybody has a name. We don't have a team name. We need [00:33:00] something. And so we're mul, we're mulling things over. Maddy said, and I, what I heard was Race track club and like RACE, that, that's what I understood. I was like, okay, race track club that works. And everybody's yeah, that, that works.

That works. And so later on I was like, okay. In the chat I was like, all so race track club? And Maddy's no, you idiot, it's RAY. And I'm like, you want to call it Ray's track club? And they're like. They're like, yeah. I was like, at the time I was like, I don't know. I know it's not mine.

Yeah. I don't know. Like we all run together, like why use my name? Yeah. And then Maddie was like you come up with all the track workouts, you do all the routes and meetups and all that stuff. It should be Racetrack club. And then that was the start of it.

Chris Detzel: Okay. I love it.

That's awesome. You kinda felt somewhat honored that they would just wanna call it by your name.

Ray Nichols: Lot of respect. RTC was born that day on you morning. You still have,

Chris Detzel: is it

Ray Nichols: still around? Yeah. We're still around. We still train. We so some of, [00:34:00] so there was a wall that passed in Plano and Carrollton where all the tracks used to be open to the public, and now they put all the fences around.

So we're homeless right now in regards to meeting up at the track. But yeah, but we still meet up, we still meet up for runs and long runs up here, that's pretty awesome.

Chris Detzel: They have what is it lake Highlands High School is right now still open. Yeah. It's a Richardson ISD. But yeah, all the Dallas ones, there's maybe one or two that are open, but they're starting to close a lot.

A lot of those not open to the public. A public school. Yeah. Not open to the public. But anyways, yeah, it's a little frustrating.

Ray Nichols: But yeah we're still looking for a track that we can call home, but RTC right now, I don't, do you know David Rucker? Or heard his name. He's the one that's running everything right now.

Okay. He is running all the socials, he's running all the group runs. So he's pretty, he gets paid pretty well doing it. Yeah. So he's in charge of all the merch and things like that. So he is the C-E-O-F-O and all whatever [00:35:00] else, social

Chris Detzel: media expert.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. He'll come up to me and he'll be like, Hey, can we do A-L-G-B-T-Q thing or autism awareness?

I was like, hell yeah. Let's go. Let's do that. Do it.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty cool. How many people

Ray Nichols: do

Chris Detzel: you

Ray Nichols: guys have in your group? I think about 60. 60 and I think 12 consistently come up. And so people pop in and out? Yeah. It's pretty awesome that, so we try to do events. Yeah. We try to do like a Christmas run, Thanksgiving run, things like that.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I heard that some of the sloths branched off of your group into their own group, 'cause they wanted to try to run like two thirties stuff, or some of 'em anyways,

Ray Nichols: it's impressive what they're doing.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Ray Nichols: Super impressive. Yeah. Yeah, we all started together,

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Yeah, I think it is impressive. It's, I was gonna say this earlier, and we just kept going onto something else, under a three hour look. I think three tens, three fifteens, three twenties, those are all really good times for a marathon. Even, maybe even highers, they're really good.

But what's impressive is how [00:36:00] many people in DFW. Women and men that are hitting under three hours.

And

Ray Nichols: incredible.

Chris Detzel: I did I've talked to so many of 'em, like I can't even talk to 'em all because there's so many, like literally under three hours and then, some are hitting under two 50, right?

Like Jill and some others, and.

Ray Nichols: Jill. Jill has been putting a lot of work. A lot of work. Winning Dallas and then just pring like crazy.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. She, I think she ran like a 2 52 or three or something in Boston, but I had her on and she's, her thing hasn't come out yet. But it was incredible. It's not just her, you've got the Mimi Smiths, you've got this woman named Rena. She just hit she's in Dallas for, I don't, a lot of people don't know her. She's not really on social, but she runs kinda with the slots sometimes, and she hit like a 2 38 or seven or something like that in That's crazy. And I'm like, geez.

And then, talking to Matt Campbell, he's trying to hit under two 30. And some of the things that you said really hit, continue to hit this. Thinking around [00:37:00] community, like the community is hitting these paces. Like you started running with some people. You mentioned some really fast people Brent and some others, and you're trying to stay with them, that pushed you, right?

Like their pace has started pushing and then you hit some incredible times from that, and something that Matt said one time, because. I probably quote this like every time I get on one of these, or at least, but he said, if I can hit under a two 30, then the other sloths, other members, they'll start hitting under two s and instead of a bunch of two 30 ERs, you're gonna have some two 20 ERs.

No, he goes, Brent was always seen as the unicorn. Or even Logan Sherman. Logan Sherman really is the unicorn hitting like 2 21 at his peak. But still these are DFW runners that nobody knows about that are hitting these DSDs. Yeah, it's under three hours. Men, women, whatever, and to me it's it's all about the community. I think in general, it's, it. I think that helps. Yeah.

Ray Nichols: I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Community one, one yes you're gonna train with people and [00:38:00] those people are gonna push you, right? It's like you're gonna, you're gonna feed off of each other.

Two is just this shoe technology. In the last five to six years, the shoe technology has just. Taken off, I feel like there's less injuries. Like for me, for example, I alternate shoes like. I run in the Pegasus for my easy days, right? And then I'll do the speed, the speeds because they have the nylon plate.

And I like doing that for tempos. And then you got the speed, the pros, right? The SY pros and then the alpha, the vapor flies and things like that. And I think, and if you look back, like a lot of the professional marathoners, were only running like one marathon a year. Now they're running multiple two to three a year.

And just. Still crushing it. And I think with that shoe technology, it's absorbing all that impact that we just do every single day. Whether we're running five miles or 15 miles that day, like the re recoveries a whole lot [00:39:00] quicker than it was before. Because I remember, 'cause I remember when I ran my first marathon.

I, I was sore for a week. It was like seven days I was sore, like my feet were sore and everything like that. And that was before like the next percent came out, like the original next percent. And then now I'll run a marathon and I'll be sore for half a day and the next day I'm like.

Didn't you just run a marathon? I was like, yeah. I was like just the re just recovery, just in general is so much better with those plated shoes and just, I feel like it, it's saving people's longevity career.

Chris Detzel: It's interesting that you say that because I think there's something to it, obviously, but I also think, so talking to these people, hitting these times and you probably know better than everyone else too, or as much as everyone else is. These people are hitting long cycles of weekly runs. And making they're hitting 80. 90, a hundred miles a week. And I'm like, but maybe that shoe technology really allows [00:40:00] them to do that two a days, and I'm like, geez. Yeah, absolutely. And then do you, is that what you were running back then or would you have you run a hundred milers and things like that throughout the week?

Ray Nichols: The most I'll do is 90. That's my peak. Like I'll go over 90. Yeah. Which, which it's a lot. It's a lot.

I haven't reached I haven't reached a hundred yet. Maybe this next training cycle I might do that, but I think the most I've ever peaked is like 90, 92.

Chris Detzel: So what's next for you?

Ray Nichols: I, it's gonna be a spring race. So I haven't ran a marathon this spring. It's already over or next year. Next year. So I'm thinking mountains to beach or Mesa in, in Phoenix.

So I'm thinking one, one of those two. It's just so hard with two, you have a teenager, I have two teenagers and one's in band and track, and the other one's in color guard. So going from here to there. One weekend we're in Indy. The next weekend we're in Austin. Next weekend we're in San Antonio.

And it's just, yeah, I haven't just been to get like [00:41:00] a good solid. Training. So I think after November, 'cause that's when marching season's over, because Laura and I volunteer at the school. We're heavily in, in the high school community helping these kids and it's just from July to November, it's just nonstop.

It's every day they go hard in the paint. The band won state this year. Wow. Yeah, it was incredible. So

Chris Detzel: quickly. My son, he's 14. He'll be in ninth grade actually. Next year and he's gonna join the marching band. So he was in eighth grade all region. He was three out of like a hundred and something kids, drums.

Percussion. Yeah. Now he's gonna be doing the big drums, I think, or I think he's gonna draw out for those. I don't know all the instruments, but he's in Roy City I think they have a pretty good, more band team or whatever, but, so yeah, I looked at his summer, it's like starting in July, mid July for the next I don't know, however long.

He has like camp for at least a month. Band camp [00:42:00] every single day. Like dude and then

Ray Nichols: Yeah. Who you have to learn it. And if the football team, if the football team goes far in the playoffs or anything like that. Like your marching season's not over. Exactly. He, I think he was like three rounds away from making it the state, and we were surprised.

We're like, wow. The season's not over yet.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. So that's gonna be a busy time starting, it's actually starting, like they're doing, like these pre kinda, trainings and things like that before they actually get in there. And I think he has tryouts, which is, I told him, I said, look, it's just like anything else.

You put your mind to it. Yeah. You put, you surround yourself with. Some very similar kids that are doing similar things that you are. And as good as you are, you need to hang out with those good ones. Those people that are really Yeah.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. That, that make it even

Chris Detzel: better

Ray Nichols: if he already made region.

Yeah. He's gonna be a shoe in.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I think so. If he screws off and messes up Yeah. And doesn't practice, then maybe not issue in, so it's just like running bring, you have to work in. [00:43:00] Just like anything. You gotta put the work in. Yeah. So you have the marathon next spring probably.

What are you doing now? Are you still running quite a bit or is it just

Ray Nichols: Sporadic or

Chris Detzel: what?

Ray Nichols: Yeah I'm keeping a low base and I say low base, but it, when I say it out loud, it's a wide range between 30 to 50 miles. Some days it just depends on what, what's going on that week.

And I get more miles that week. But I'm staying, the wheelhouse is about 30 to 50. And I think once, once everything's done, like Laura and I sat down and we looked at our schedule and I'm like, realistically, when can I get a training block? And it's gonna be December of this year when I can start training.

So it'll be a late March, early April race maybe. Do you have a specific goal in mind?

Chris Detzel: I

Ray Nichols: know people don't like to say it, but you might as well 43

Chris Detzel: listen, so you really want to go for, for it all.

Ray Nichols: Yeah. I think I only I feel at my age I only have a few more years of like solid petitive, really strong running.

I appreciate you saying that, Ray. I am five

Chris Detzel: years older than you or so,

Ray Nichols: so I feel Father [00:44:00] times catching up.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it always

Ray Nichols: does. And it's so funny because I was talking to one of my friends and I was like, dude, like I can, I could still run a five minute mile, I could run a marathon, no problem.

But sitting down watching Netflix and I get off the couch to go get a snack and I pull something in my back and I'm like, make it make sense. Yeah. How do you get injured from watching Netflix? But I'm not, it's at

Chris Detzel: that age. It's funny 'cause I could still run fast, but over the last five or six weeks I've been running some five Ks, probably four weeks ago.

I didn't pull anything in my back, but my back never hurts, ever, but it is killing me lately, because I've run maybe too many five Ks or something like that and I'm like, or I'm just. Turned 50. So maybe that's what it's, I don't know but I do think time is not on your side from PR standpoint, like it's on none of our sites anymore, yeah. Unless you're thirties or twenties or even forties now, eventually it just, you gotta start thinking about, winning your age group or something,

Ray Nichols: Yeah. That's what I do. Yeah, exactly. And even then, I'm like,

Chris Detzel: [00:45:00] dude, I could be in the top 10 in my age group at the age of 50 or sometimes three or four, but I'm never that fast, i'm still not number one. These guys are fast. I'm not a Ray Nichols,

Ray Nichols: oh man. I still get worried because like that masters right now you have to. Is Fawns gonna be in this race? Yeah. His Javier gonna be in this race. That's right. Is Karen gonna be in this race?

Is Brett gonna be in this race? 'cause he just became Masters and you're like, Goll Lee. It's just the, and the list goes on and on and like they only get faster. Who's gonna, who's gonna take it? The and I always joke with Brent, I'm like, the only time I'll ever beat you is when Brent was like weightlifting and he gained like 30 pounds of muscle.

And I went into like a. Solid, solid 5K block. Like I was training for my, I call it my old man pr. I was going for an old man PR and I just had a solid 5K training cycle and Brent was like 190 pounds of solid muscle. And he entered a dash down and [00:46:00] I was like, this is like the only time I'll probably beat you.

Like ever. Yeah. Not by much, like he still ran I think he still ran like a 16 or 17 something. Geez. Yeah. So what'd you run? I think that day I ran like a 1648.

Chris Detzel: So he just ran a 1604 in Boston, 5K. So he did the marathon, but then he also did the 5K. Yeah. Dude's unreal. He was hoping to hit fifteens, but it wasn't his day.

And he got, I think overall in Masters Yeah. Or so in the 5K. And he still ran an amazing. Half or marathon as well. Crazy. I think it was crazy. 2 36 or five or something. How are you enjoying the, I've never really enjoyed five Ks that much. I actually, I like 'em because you can just get 'em done, but they're like a sprint.

It's, it feels hard I feel like sometimes half marathons are a little bit more fun 'cause you can get a groove and things like that. But it's been good, like it's just a little different, I'm trying to just you're done quicker. Yeah, I try to get quicker and I think got quicker yet, but, I'm trying, I [00:47:00] need to train.

I just go and run the five Ks without. I'm running 30 or 40 miles a week, but I'm not training specifically for 5K. Okay. So if I really wanna do well in a 5K, I'm gonna have to like. Do lots of really hard, track workouts and

Ray Nichols: things like that. Oh, absolutely. Like my thing behind the 5K is to get good at a 5K is you have to constantly run five Ks constantly.

Yeah, that too. Because you remember in high school you were probably doing two, two races a week. Yeah. Yeah. So when cross country. Think about that. Think about how much you raced and some days were easier than others. So when I do my 5K block, and I always recommend runners like my, if I'm coaching someone, I always tell 'em like, right when you come off a marathon block, go into a 5K block.

And then I'll set 'em up with something where like. You're doing a time trial at least once a week and entering a 5K once a week and then leading up to your goal race. I like that. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: There's [00:48:00] five Ks everywhere,

Ray Nichols: Yeah. They get kinda

Chris Detzel: expensive now. They're like 50 bucks,

Ray Nichols: Depending on where you go.

But you can find a good one I think my favorite race of the year is Enni. The Poker Fest. Oh really? Yeah. And I think that's 30, 30 bucks. That's like the one race I look forward to every year. And it's 30 bucks. And they feed you large amounts of food and give you large amounts of, I've heard about that.

Just normally

Chris Detzel: or

Ray Nichols: Recently sign up. We'll run it together. What is it? It's labor Day weekend. So next month? I think it's from now up.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Something else. I'll sign up. Why not? Let's do it.

Ray Nichols: Yeah, let's do it.

Chris Detzel: You're gonna stay with me, is that what you're saying?

Ray Nichols: Yeah, I can, yeah, let's

Chris Detzel: do it. No, dude, you have to try to win it

Ray Nichols: or whatever.

Oh,

Chris Detzel: No. I'll do it. Ray, this has been really great. It's really good to catch up and good to hear kinda your story and. You know what, we'll have to do this again sometime.

Ray Nichols: Yeah, absolutely. It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

Chris Detzel: Of course. Now, before we go, did I miss anything that you wish you would've just

Ray Nichols: that I would've asked and that you wanna talk about?

I think we covered all the major points.

Chris Detzel: Cool. All right. I. I [00:49:00] think that end it for the day. Thank you everyone for tuning in to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Tetzel. Don't forget to rate and review us and sign up to our substack dfw running talk.dot substack.com. I'm Chris Tetzel again, Ray, thanks so much for coming

Ray Nichols: all, thanks for having me.

All right.