Running as Therapy: Breaking Down Mental Barriers with Buddy Detzel

Buddy & Chris Running
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW running talk. I'm Chris Detzel. So let's get started.

All right. Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we do have a special guest. His name is Buddy Detzel, which, yes, he's my twin brother. Buddy, how are you?

Buddy Detzel: I'm good, man. Yeah, I've known you for a while.

Chris Detzel: What's been going on? Yeah, and we will be talking today a lot about running, but also about this idea of mental health.

Now, you've been a professional counselor for a really long time, and at a company called Authentic Therapy Solutions. Yeah. That's it. ~ ~So let's get into it, man. You and I were having a conversation the other day and I thought, Hey, you know what would be really cool is I've been around runners a long time and you used to be a big time runner and you still do a lot of, weights and some other things.

We'll get to that in a minute. But I thought, a lot of these folks at times have mental health opportunities or issues or whatever. And Yeah. [00:01:00] Sometimes, I think that a lot of times, we use running as one of those mechanisms to cope, right? And I think it's a good one. But I also think it's just one tactic of many different things that, people can, people deal with, what do you think?

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. Let me give you some experiences from just my own life and just how I got into running and how I think it's, Benefited me, when I moved to my, so I moved out when I was 17 and moved out with my aunt and uncle, and it was a pretty lonely time,

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Buddy Detzel: Didn't have any friends and it's, you're not around your family and, things like that. So I really started just, especially around my senior year, that second half of it. I started really getting a life to get, and running became a huge part of that. I'd just go run down the street and run two or three, four miles.

And so in some ways it was a benefit because and it, for me, it was healthy just because it gave me an outlet. To do something, good for my son. So my journey started there, [00:02:00] I ran in seventh and eighth grade, I think the off seasons with, I don't know if you remember coach Noel and yeah little, and that's when I was really first introduced to running is in the off season and they do real well in classes.

So when you didn't do well, and if you're in athletics, you had to go into off season. And so we ran a lot and I actually loved it, people were, so that's where I got introduced to it and, just and then through the years I started just running around the lake about nine miles all the time.

And my wife finally got me into running marathons your wife did,

Chris Detzel: I don't remember that. Yeah.

Buddy Detzel: She basically said, Hey, I signed you up for this DRC thing. Oh, there goes somebody. And she signed me up. Yeah. Yeah. I signed you up for a marathon. At the time, this was like in 2000 Marathon, I think this was in 2010.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. You were doing Dallas Running club. And then she just decided to sign you up for a marathon.

Buddy Detzel: And then I was like, I don't know. It's that's a long Oh my God. ~ ~Yeah. And then I finally just came to peace with it and said, okay let's give it a shot. So it was tough, but [00:03:00] didn't get it the first, I didn't get it in 2010, but.

To hurt myself, but but 2011, I was able to run it.

Chris Detzel: I remember that. And I remember I was watching you and I didn't, I wasn't running at the time. I ran as a, in high school and all that kind of stuff, but then I quit for several years. And and I remember you running that marathon and I remember you saying, it was raining that day.

It was the Dallas, it's now called Run Dallas, but it was the Dallas marathon back then. And you did quite well, but it was really cold and raining and I remember, yeah, you tell me more about it because, Yeah, it was

Buddy Detzel: crazy, because I went up there, I never ran a marathon, it was 37 degrees and it was steady rain.

And I knew this going on, going in for about a week and a half, but I just kept thinking, man, I hope not, I hope it's not going to rain that day, and it was.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Buddy Detzel: even before I got there, it was raining and that's the thing. It's 37 degrees. It's actually pretty nice weather if it's sunny, when it's raining stuff, the most [00:04:00] difficult time I had was getting warm. I could not get warm for the life of me is drenched, stepping in puddles all the time. But at the same time, I got a great time I think it was what did I get?

Chris Detzel: 337.

Buddy Detzel: 3

Chris Detzel: 32. Yeah.

Buddy Detzel: Your

Chris Detzel: first one at 3 32. Yeah, three 30. Wow.

So it be me. My best one. My best is 3 37. That's right. You're telling

Buddy Detzel: me 3 37. And you're the one who did? ~ ~No. So it was like an 8 0 4 pace and it surprised me. I was going for the seven 20 pace. Yeah. Or seven 40 or something. Three 20. Yeah. Yeah. Three 20. Yeah, that's right.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Buddy Detzel: I didn't quite get there, but

And then

Chris Detzel: I've run Your first one, you got a 332, dude?

That's pretty awesome.

Buddy Detzel: But I contribute that to because it was so cold out and I just wanted to get it done. It was not, it was definitely not a fun marathon. It was fun when it ended.

Chris Detzel: Tell me what happened right after the marathon and, you were looking for things, you were disoriented, you were by yourself.

And I feel bad about that now. I look back and I think, man, I wish I was there for you [00:05:00] to, Take you to your cars.

Buddy Detzel: I was by myself, yeah. And that's the thing is, luckily when we were done we were able to go in and get some hot food. I think I changed clothes too, actually. So that was positive.

But I was, it was my first marathon. I was already so sore. And it was raining out and it was shivering. I couldn't find my car. It took me like 45 minutes to find my car.

Chris Detzel: So it's been terrible,

Buddy Detzel: man. It was yeah, it was. I was like, I don't know if I'm going to find my car. There's so many cars here.

But luckily I did. I'm still, I survived. But no, yeah, it was fun. And then but yeah, love running lately. Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of running mile here, a couple miles there, do a lot of yoga and frostbit right now, but,

Chris Detzel: But yeah, do you do that? Do you think that, as you talk to the folks about that, how important do you think that exercise in general on a consistent basis?

Is that super important? Do you think, just as you have these counseling sessions with folks?

Buddy Detzel: [00:06:00] Yeah. I talk to people about living in their values, right? And a big one that comes up is, health. So I think about values, I think more of a quality of being.

So I want to be like a, let's say a connective person. So connection would be a value. Or health, you can talk about mental health, physical health,

Chris Detzel: whatever.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. And for me, a big value is exercise because, there's not only just good physically for you, which it is, but think about this.

When you start to work out, let's just say using weights, you gain strength.

Chris Detzel: And

Buddy Detzel: so not only that, when you gain strength mentally, you feel strong. Because you are. So there is this kind of body mind connection, right? So you know, if your body feels good, your mind feels good. We know all the, we know a lot of benefits.

The resilience that you build toward it, the achievement when you're done with each run or exercise or, whatever it is. So yeah, and especially in a, society where [00:07:00] we live in a very we sit down, we're not, we're made to move, movement. Move around move the body,

Chris Detzel: and run in circles.

I think that, something that you mentioned was, just feeling accomplished and things like that. There's no time that, when I go run a race, and I've run, at least 50 half marathons. Close to 50 half marathons, three full marathons, I've run 20 milers. I've done a lot of different runs, and especially races.

The one thing that I, in the beginning always thought was one, I did it for my weight. Oh, and I thought, that was the longest time. And then, I got pretty good at it and I thought maybe I can do really well. And then, from a time standpoint, then I started comparing times, cause I'm pretty I'm You know, competitive.

And I think that gave me something to be competitive with. And just being consistent and running and then just saying, Hey, look, I finished this time. I don't know, whatever time you get in the half marathon full, whatever, then you want to do it again to beat the next time. You know what I mean?

You feel accomplished. Even if you don't get that [00:08:00] time, you still feel accomplished. I do, when thinking about Hey, I did the work and I feel good. I feel athletic. I feel healthy.

Buddy Detzel: Absolutely. One thing to speak to what you're saying is that, typically it can be hard to start some, sometimes it's you just got to start.

So sometimes, I don't want to go work, but typically after the workout, I'm the, I'm so glad I did that. It's really, cause you feel accomplished cause you feel like you've done something you've done something healthy for your body. Yeah, there's a lot of benefits, right?

Like and I've taken an approach to, running one way, but, it's I've done a lot of different kinds of workouts and, I'm sure a few of us have too, probably, but many of them at least yeah, we all start for different reasons, I started cause I was lonely, and and it went from there and it was, felt accomplished felt.

It's getting to know myself a little more, working out. Do you ever like,

Chris Detzel: absolutely. Do you ever talk to people that, whenever you're in these sessions, do you ever [00:09:00] talk about, exercise or anything like that to help them get through some of the things that they get through?

Absolutely.

Buddy Detzel: Oh, that's it's a big topic. Again, it's I deal with a lot of different kinds of clients, but a lot of my clients, they sit down all day, on the computers, a lot of through computer programmers or whatever. They sit down, so yeah, exercises in some ways, I think that we think we can get away with not exercising.

We think we, but that's the thing is where when you talk about depression, anxiety Transcribed we'll just stick with those two, but, a lot of the times, if you'll start moving your body, it's going to help you necessarily overcome those things, but it's going to help you, when you're moving, you're not so depressed.

It's like when you're in your head and you're anxious, Do some deep breathing, do some yoga, go for a long run, yeah, we'll put that, because you got to regulate your nervous [00:10:00] system, and exercising is a wonderful way to regulate your nervous system,

Chris Detzel: so it's funny because I used to be heavy and to some degree still am not as heavy, but into the trail running community and these trail runners are, not all of them, right? But a lot of these guys and gals have, things like. They used to do drugs a lot, or they used to do, they used to be alcoholics.

And what they've done is, they've substituted running, long distances like 100 milers or 50 milers. These guys like, they might or might not be fast, but they just go out there and do it, right? Like they just go out there and be like, I'm just going to go do 100 miles. I think they put in some of the work.

To me, it's always sounded like I'm glad they do that because they substitute is something, something better but I've seen it also wear off, okay, now they're back, not necessarily doing drugs or whatever, but, they're not doing the 100 miles.

They're not doing the work. They're not doing it. And so they just fall back in a [00:11:00] way.

Buddy Detzel: That's a lot to keep up with, I think first of all, but, it's to me, I'm sure it is for them too. I've never run a hundred miler, so I wouldn't know if your wife would.

I think partly what I'm hearing you talk about is the idea of addiction. Like, where a lot of these people, you start with, and this is actually pretty common too, they'll substitute one addiction for another. So really, thinking about it maybe the question is, can you run too much?

I don't know. Is it, just like drinking, is it, does it affect your family life? Does it affect? Your relationship with your husband, your wife, your kids. Job. Your job, yeah. Maybe you look at it in the same way is it, has running become kind of the substitute?

So really, You got to deal with the addiction brain, you're learning to really just be more moderate, right? And I don't really try to think in absolutes, I don't think it's right or wrong to drink I think it's, due to moderation if you're going to do it,

Chris Detzel: yeah

Buddy Detzel: damn, it's running it's Look, sometimes you're going to have to be, a I don't know about it, like a David Goggins kind of deal, [00:12:00] but sometimes you've got to be pretty like if you're going to run a hundred miles, you're going to have to put in the work.

So there's a fine line here. It's and each person is going to be a little different. There, there's no like easy answer in terms of

Chris Detzel: what I think. There's another very positive part to this, I think is that including myself, the big part of what running does, it gives you a community of people that are doing something similar, right?

So you know the positive, for some of those folks is that, Hey, they're doing some running and they do a lot of running, but they're doing a lot of running with some new friends or with friends that are getting with groups. And so there's some positives to that, sure, I've seen so many times that people will go out and do, a hundred miles, two or three times a year races and just keep going on and on.

Or I've even seen it with marathoners, they're like, do five marathons in a year, and I'm like eventually you're going to get hurt and now you're just going to burn out,

Buddy Detzel: That's actually a good question. Bernie, I like the idea of, we all [00:13:00] yearned above all, it's a yearning that we have. This is kind of part of the infrastructure of a human being, and I would say like personally, when I did the marathon, when I joined the marathon group back in 2010 for the first time, and I tell my clients this a lot, I use this as an example, so The first marathon I tried to run was in 2010, and two weeks before I got hurt, so we did like a 21 or 22 miler as a last practice run, and about 20 miles into it, I had I don't know, I had some sharp pains in my foot.

I knew I was finished at first. My mindset was like, Oh man, I can't believe it. I run this marathon anymore. It's geez, all this training dah. Yeah. And but then I said, hold on, wait, it's not. And I realized it wasn't about the outcome of running the actual marathon.

It was disappointing and I'll, it was disappointing, however, it can be disappointing, but as I [00:14:00] looked back, I was like, buddy. Look at all the people I got to meet, and that I still have friendships with today, at some level, that sense of belongingness, but not only that, but the different techniques I learned about running, the shoes, the gear to use, and then,

Chris Detzel: it's like I always thought you never knew what to wear or do, because whenever I started running with you, I was like, dude, why are you wearing those kind of shoes?

You're like,

Buddy Detzel: Maybe, right? I don't know, just those kinds of things, right? So it wasn't just an all or nothing, so a lot of time we get into that all or nothing thinking, trying to create a more flexible mindset. The thing is that, and look, and I think because of how I was able to pivot and as I retrospected that and saw the the gains that I've actually gained from it besides just the running itself, which was a huge gain plus I'd never run 20 miles before that in my life.

So that was another gain. And that told me though, buddy, you weren't able to get to, you did get hurt. Yeah, I did get hurt, and that took, it probably took five or six months for me to, I remember [00:15:00] that. At the same time, again, just creating that flexible mindset and the sense of belonging.

The people are really the ones who carried me through that too. Yeah. And felt part of the people felt part of, as part of something, and yeah, man, running really, a lot of benefits just in my life, the running itself, cause I do too. I like the achievement.

I like the the goals that I set out for myself to, to get there. But it's not just about the running. It's about the people. Look, we used to go and sometimes we'd sit near someone's car and drink a couple of beers afterwards and talk about it. Or, go eat a lot, definitely.

We have this

Chris Detzel: this group today on Thursdays, which I've already said in my podcast before, but we used to run. Now we just meet on Thursdays and either drink a few beers at this trail that's nearby, Norbug Trail. And then like now that it gets night quickly and cold. We just got a local bar and have some beers and eat and just shoot the shit.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah, man. That's it. That's what it's about right there. And that's how you [00:16:00] organically get to meet people. It's funny because, clients, let's say I have a lot of single clients or whatever, not all of them, but some, and the way that they go seek out dates and stuff is through these apps,

And it's look, and it's a lot of hit and miss, of course a lot of those become like hookups and stuff, but, but they're really looking for connection, and I, again, I'll use this in my own life just to say look, not that I was looking to date anybody cause I wasn't, but but it was an opportunity where, you find something, an activity like running and you build organically relationships in that way, and then slowly you just keep showing up.

You're just, you're going to naturally what do we do? We connect, we're. We're like in this suffering together, of running. Yeah. That's how Leah and I met. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Matter of fact, I was, I remember I was running with a different group than you were, but I remember you talking about her and you introduced me to her and.

And I remember when y'all met and were friends and all that,

Chris Detzel: and, Yeah, [00:17:00] little story there is, I was running my first by the way, Buddy is the one that pushed me to get into running again, back when I was in my late thirties. I was going through a divorce and and he was like, Man. Cause I was overweight quite a bit actually.

And you go, you really need to do something, be active. Why don't you start running? And I started to do that anyways. Yeah. So as I was doing stuff, yeah. Yeah.

Buddy Detzel: I was starting to do 5k,

Chris Detzel: 10 Ks, whatever Josh got me to our other brother got me to run a 10 K or something. I was like, I'm not ready.

I'm not either, man, let's go. And I kicked his ass at it, and I was like, Oh maybe I'm ready. Yeah. So anyways I think you encouraged me to join Dallas running club and I did. And I think our first nine miles, Dallas running club, they have, I don't know if it was the spring, I don't know, whatever it was, the first run was nine miles and I don't think I've ever run nine miles, number one.

Yeah. So we knew that was going to be a struggle. I was [00:18:00] struggling with, I was running with the three 30 group and then I just dialed it back and I was just like, I'll wait for the other group. And she came back around and picked me up, it was like, Hey, you okay? It's not like we started dating though.

We weren't, we didn't, it took over a year to, for us to start dating, but still, you never know some of the people you can meet,

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. Like you met, you met your wife through the running club. I think that's the best way to, I think that's the best way to meet people. No, I'm agreeing with you, and that's, I think that's a really good way to meet people is through just finding activity and committing to it.

Something that's social if you want to meet people, right? And a sense of belongingness, right? I've seen that rinse and repeat over and over if it's through the running, Dale, or, whatever the,

Chris Detzel: But hey, you're getting a little bit of exercise as well. Exactly. You're getting exercise, you're meeting people, getting to hang out, and you're starting to build that life of, activity.

I believe that activity is key and consistent activity, whether it's [00:19:00] cycling, running, CrossFit, swimming, I don't know, whatever. Whatever things you might do keeps your mind focused, keeps you want from wandering, from the mind, like just yeah, it doesn't solve all your problems, but I think it helps,

Buddy Detzel: It also helps to let go, right? I think it helps just to be able to let go. Just to the day, or did for me. I like that, just to be able to like. Okay. Yeah. It gives me the image of just burning it off, burning the day off, that's really all my workouts and just but yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's not just a sense of belongingness, but that's why, just joining the group did for me because, I think part of it was just hard running by myself.

It got to a point where, I don't think I could get past 15 miles on my own. It's hard. Yeah. I just get bored. I think I've gotten up to I think I've, once I gotten up to 16 miles on my own, then I just stopped. I was like, nah, I'm done. I'm bored. So I needed to, it's just a long time to be by [00:20:00] yourself.

Exactly. And I know, and I know I like to run. I like to run on my own, joining the group really definitely helped me just push. So now I have the, the part of me inwardly that wants to do it, the desire, but also having that external pressure helps too.

So having both that internal and external push. So now it's, you got that together.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, 100%. And I know that you have been laying low from a running standpoint as of late. Although, your daughter's big time into running a little bit more, in the last couple of years. It's fun to watch.

Yeah. Even your son does a little bit. My son's starting to run a little bit. So yeah, I think a lot of times when do those things, your kids see that and pick up on it. Maybe it's not, you're not pushing them, but you're showing them, do you think that kind of helps her?

Oh, yeah.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. The fact that they see that my wife and I work out, and. And I've told them about all the glory days of running and stuff. My daughter's, [00:21:00] she's done very well in cross country and I think she's getting a new track in the spring. And she likes the long distance. And, cause she does well,

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Buddy Detzel: And then Ezra too, like today they, Ezra went for a couple miles, Simone went for a mile or two. Nice. Yeah, they just went on their own. They were incentivized, right? Like I told them. They can shorten their time on the TV or computer. They asked me, they, they came and asked me, Hey, if we do this, can you do this?

Yeah. Yeah. We negotiated something. It's always a negotiation. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Just, I think too, like them seeing their aunt and uncle, running, like in talking to them on a regular basis,

Chris Detzel: she follows me on a Insta. And she's always seeing my neck and she also, I think follows me on the Dallas or DFW running talk, the, this thing we're on now.

And so she doesn't listen to a lot of things, but she sees the posts and things.

Buddy Detzel: She sees your kid. Yeah, exactly. Just a showing, just the excitement that y'all talk about it with too. Y'all are very consistent, and it's been I think it's been a real [00:22:00] show and just in terms of them seeing it and as they've seen It's really yeah I mean they and look that's what I'm hoping for them is that You know at the day if they can have something if it's running or just working out just a value For fitness, you know that can just run through their lives, you know on a consistent level I mean I

Chris Detzel: think fitness is key, and I think that, even as you progress through the years, you don't do a lot of running anymore.

You do more like other stuff. Like I remember you do this, like you'll start running for a few years, do all these things, and then you'll just switch it up and be like in yoga for years and years, switch it up and then do a little bit of yoga still, but then cross fit for, you've done that for a few years now.

You're always switching it up. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Buddy Detzel: Look, I don't know, maybe just that I get bored, it's it's like this aesthetic rotation or something, it's Oh, let's try this. Shoot, what I do running [00:23:00] competitively for myself for six or seven years, eight years, I don't know long time.

And then, yeah, of course, yoga went for 10 years. Crossfit for four. Yeah. And now I'm trying to just mix it all up. I'm trying to run more, I want to run more.

Chris Detzel: It's hard to get back into it when you stop completely like that. Yeah.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. Usually I can get a mile or two in

Chris Detzel: right now.

It's fine, dude. But I've seen you try to kickstart it again. And in my opinion, dude. Like when you kickstart it, you're like, all right, we've got this nine mile thing and I'm going to go eight minute miles. And I'm like, buddy, like you don't start at eight or nine minute miles when you're doing your first nine miles in five years.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. That's the thing too, I've definitely had to, I've definitely had to hone in my competitiveness, because you're extremely

Chris Detzel: competitive.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah, I am. And, we both are really, but, I think I know now, I'm almost 50 years old and you

Chris Detzel: [00:24:00] are,

Buddy Detzel: yeah, you too, by the way.

Yeah, that's true. But yeah, it's like I've honed that in more. I don't think I, take my time, build into it. Usually when I'm running now, it's usually after I do weights or something just to get some cardio in. So I got a

Chris Detzel: question for you.

Like it's a. I don't know if it's a counseling question or not, but I think it's something that you can think about now. A lot of times, you have, I've seen this a lot, cause I've been doing this for a long time. Pacer and things like that. No way. Okay. And one of the things I see a lot is people will run with a certain group.

Let's just say it's a one hour and 40 minute kind of half marathon. And, you'll see this view of, Hey, I'm going to try to hit a 140. This person is going to be able to do 130 one day. You know what I mean? You just know it. You can tell by their athleticism, running with them, you just, but a lot of times they don't get there for a while because same thing with me is that we're in our own [00:25:00] head.

We're like, if I can only just get, I hit a 142, but I got to get a 140. I'm thinking, and I'll tell him, Hey, look, you could do a 135. You just have to go out there and push yourself a little bit to do the 135. You've already at 142 and this is your first, you know what I mean?

So a lot of times we have to break down this barrier of how fast we can go, or cause we're in our own mind. I've seen people go from, 140 something to, to one low one twenties, in a half marathon only because. It did take them time, right? Only because they're in their own head it took them that long.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do.

Buddy Detzel: I think partly what I'm hearing is that, we get to a certain pace and then for some reason there's a mental ball, and, and thinking about ways to overcome that. Part of it is that, and I think this is a rigidity that we create in our minds where it's 142, gotta get a 140, gotta get a 140, it's [00:26:00] you just got a one 42 it's going to take some time to get there and maybe take some kind of reflection on kind of the things you did well and the things, because typically we know what we need to work on,

But yeah, and sometimes it's just maybe saying something like it's good enough for now, and taking it, enjoying what you've done to write maybe that's the beginning, is taking joy in, in what you have accomplished in the beginning.

It doesn't mean you don't work on getting a lower time or whatever, but yeah, you're right. I think in a lot of ways we can get in our minds or get into our

Chris Detzel: yeah, our minds. I've seen a lot, dude it's crazy. And then sometimes it's frustrating. It's look, you could do this. I remember one time I was running with this this woman and she was like, Hey, I'm going to stay with you.

I said I'm going to run a 135. And I'm not going to do it, and my pace is going to be this, so let's go. She didn't do it because I think that she tried for a minute or two. She was like, I'll screw this. [00:27:00] Then she became way too uncertain. She's low on 20s now. Yeah. But it took her a long time to, to get out of her own head.

Buddy Detzel: But still, it's good that she at least tried. Because what I'm hearing is that since she's trying to stay up with you for a little bit,

Chris Detzel: Yeah. That's actually fine. I'm happy

Buddy Detzel: to go. I think part of it is just right? We all have limitations. And if it's just it is just gonna take you some more time to get there, and it's gonna, I think part of it is one thing I learned too is that, you're really gonna dis be in some good discipline too, right?

To get in, you gotta not just show up at really be honest with yourself about your limitations and can you work on those limitations. And it's a lot of retrospecting. About

Chris Detzel: okay.

Buddy Detzel: 'cause I know there's been a lot of times where, I would go for if I was trying to run like say maybe a seven 20 pace or something like that.

. And I'd keep it up for two or three miles and I was like no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not there yet. , yeah. I got it for about two or three miles and then, I've gotta slowly do, 'cause you burn yourself out, you just go start going slow,

Chris Detzel: man. I some [00:28:00] runners.

That are, that they've been doing this for years is not to get off the subject completely, but they're running 50, 60 miles every single, there's just one woman I know, she's running 400 miles a month. I'm like, do you know how many miles it is per week? That's a lot. She has to do the math, and you just wonder like, why, what are you doing?

So this is sessional,

Buddy Detzel: yeah, I think, I think when you get to those kind of miles, you're going to have to be a little obsessed, I'm not saying that's healthy or unhealthy, but I am saying you have to be a little obsessed,

Chris Detzel: Think about those folks that, look, I'm not saying David Goggins isn't, inspirational a little bit and stuff, but I've seen this a lot is, a lot of people.

Mostly, Matt, gets so inspired by them. They're gonna go and do all these miles. They start for three or four weeks. And then, never see them again.

Buddy Detzel: I get the sentiment of David Dawkins. There is an inspiration to him. Sure. I agree. Able to do, what most men and women [00:29:00] can't, at a high level.

I give them that, but I think in some ways it's, and maybe you gotta be pretty hardcore, I don't know, but I think there's, I think you have to be careful because I call it the dictator within that judgmental self, you get all, I'm gonna do it, and then you're, you're calling yourself names and, things like that.

I want, you got this stuff. Yeah, I might want to edit that out. I don't know but no, you know That to me I call that the dictator within I don't I think that creates self worth issues on down the road there may be a temporary Benefit from it.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Buddy Detzel: but actually there's long term consequences If you continue to judge yourself and are mean to yourself Like that, then that's how you're going to treat yourself.

Kind of doing away with your self worth, instead, I think there's, and I call it, and as I orient in yourself towards a compassionate self, which I think you can still get a lot done without harming your own self [00:30:00] worth, so instead of saying in calling myself a little bitch or something like that, This is difficult and this is a hard road that I've chosen and I really want to do it, but I can see that I'm struggling, that's what I mean by compassion itself.

I think we can get much further and we can, we're able to let it go. And then, and by letting it go, it creates really a, then we can restart instead of holding on to. Does that

Chris Detzel: make sense? Yeah, that was good. Is there any kind of tips or tricks that you'd say that somebody should take as they move on from, this David Goggins mindset?

Buddy Detzel: Again, I think David Goggins has some very, intended things, sure. But I think it can be done with a non judgmental self, so I would say the tip is, cause orientation is another yearning we, so we yearn to be oriented, orient yourself with a compassion itself, that whole thing [00:31:00] softly, so you can let it go because, it's I could have just kept holding on to the fact that I didn't run that marathon the first time and then probably what it would have happened, is that I would have just stopped running,

But I didn't, and I was able to recoup from that.

I was, I started judging myself. I think many of us have that mindset and I think probably people wouldn't be able to be very relatable to the dictator within, if you will, but I, but it's going to cause you a lot of problems, not just in running, but just in every day, and is it really worth your own self worth, and giving that up.

So tips would be just Working on diffusing, you're working on letting go, if you will noticing without judging, that's how you can start, right? It's, there's a technique called noticing without judging. Notice your thoughts without judging, be that third person observer of your thoughts, so that you can choose what, because the thing is you may not be able to stop your thoughts.

Like what CBT would say, [00:32:00] you can choose to see your thoughts and let them go. It's like being on a train or a bus, it's like you look out the window and trees and cars, but you're not judging the trees or just noticing them. You're just noticing the cars go by.

You're not saying, look at that white bark on there. And it's, is that mold on there? You're just noticing without judging. And so I would say the same principle here of dealing with your it, or these fused thoughts, it's noticing them without judging them. And then even saying that word, I notice, because it's a neutral word so I notice that, I was calling myself a little bitch, and I noticed that, but I get to Even if

Chris Detzel: you are being a little bitch, you gotta notice it.

Buddy Detzel: You notice it, right? Because that's the thing is we become fused to those thoughts, we become fused and it creates these patterns that, it's which then end up just discouraging us from doing the things we want to do. Sometimes it may be those mental blocks of you ask why can't I get from a [00:33:00] 145 to a 140?

The middle block could be that judgmental self. No. And that, so you are creating more self suffering for yourself, so yeah, absolutely trying to, let those thoughts, and that's what I mean by letting those thoughts go, is you get to choose what thoughts you want there.

I love

Chris Detzel: that, man. I love that a lot. Super helpful when you think of so something that came to mind was injuries. So you could imagine that, like you were saying, is that you train so long for a marathon or whatever it is that you're training for. Yeah. Then you get injured five, can't run, can't do much of anything.

You can imagine like all those thoughts, negativity, did all these things and then, trying to rehab and all that kind of stuff. Do you have any kind of,

Buddy Detzel: Yeah. I think, flexibility, right? Like it's I call it creating a psychologically flexible mindset, because that's the thing is, injuries [00:34:00] are part of it, right?

And what do you do what do you do when you do get injured? Are you sitting there judging yourself? Are you sitting there? Wallowing in kind of the judgment of you hurting yourself. I can't believe I did that. I shouldn't have done that. But when you hear words like should, could, would, could, should, could, would, those are judgment words you're judging.

You're when you assign them to yourself, you're judging yourself. So it's very difficult to accept something when you're constantly in judgment of yourself. One thing I would say is again, is. Is creating a psychologically flexible mindset means something like, which then creates maybe adaptability, I am getting older and my knees just aren't what they used to

Chris Detzel: be.

Buddy Detzel: And now I've injured myself four or five times, and I want to keep working out and I love running, but I just don't know that I can do it the way I've been doing it. So now I've created a compassionate self, not judging myself. Letting go of those [00:35:00] judgments and being more adaptable to, to what I can do.

There's certainly lots of different things you can do, if it's going to nursing the injury to pivoting to something different, even. That's not going to be so hard on your ankles and your knees. Or, combining not just running, but also strength training, especially as you get older.

Strengthen those muscles. I think you're big into strength

Chris Detzel: training as of late.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah, man. So I've just seen so many gains there and just, this feels so strong, stronger than I've really been and ever, now it does take away some flexibility, so I'm used to being doing yoga for so long that created such a flexibility.

And noticing how rigid my body structure was when it was running, because you just do this same motion with running all the time, it's like I did that for years. And then when I first started yoga, I was like, Oh, gosh, it was rough. It was rough. No doubt about it, man.

Chris Detzel: Is there anything that I missed that, you think I [00:36:00] should have asked you and be like, man, you should really ask this and let me address that.

Buddy Detzel: Nothing that I can think of. I think this was a good start, for us and I'll be curious to see what your thoughts are after you play around with it and whatever, I thought it went pretty well overall not too many tangents probably said a lot.

It's all right. I'll cut those out. Yeah, exactly. Anything you want to say to end, or?

Chris Detzel: No, that's it, but I will just say this, buddy, thanks for coming on it was really good. He's at Authentic Therapy Solutions, so he counsels people for a living, you've got all your degrees and all that kind of stuff.

Buddy Detzel: Yeah, so I'll, let me just say this. I have my own private practice I have an M. A., a master's degree, as a licensed professional counselor. Here in Dallas, and so I do both modalities or acceptance commitment therapy, and then I've been doing a somatic psychology called bioenergetics therapy.

Yeah, so I don't know if anybody's interested in that. Let me know. Definitely. And yeah, website is at AuthenticTherapySolutions. com. [00:37:00]

Chris Detzel: I'll put all that stuff in the show notes as well. Thanks everyone for tuning in today's DFW Running Talk. Please go and rate and review us. Certainly gonna help us to get into the podcast realm of things and people, more people listening.

So thanks again, buddy, for coming on and thanks for everybody tuning in.

Buddy Detzel: Thank you. All right, Chris, man. You have a great week.

Chris Detzel: You too, man.