The 5:07 Mile That Almost Won Dallas Marathon: Casey Novelo's 2:24 Marathon Battle

DFW Running Talk: Casey Novelo
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel and today's special guest is Casey Novelo. Casey, how's it going? Going well, how about yourself? Doing well. And before we get into it, the reason this is so special, Casey, you and I slightly talked about this kind of as I call the pre-show.

I'm gonna start recording these pre-show for now on and then maybe give people kind of something to listen to if they want to on the side or something, I don't know, but that kind of fun. But you ran 2 24 in Dallas. The Dallas Marathon. You're back in December, which is pretty amazing. You got second place overall, but before we talk about that.

It's funny 'cause Brent Whittle probably two months ago, he was telling me, he goes, you should get on your podcast is this guy named Casey Novella. I was like, who? Like I, so I even, I went there to Strava the same day, and I was like, who's this guy? He goes, man, [00:01:00] he's doing it right.

He's running, lots of miles. He's really, and I was like, yeah, maybe. And let's see what he does in Dallas. And so I looked, and dude, you smoked it, by the way.

Casey Novelo: Thank you. Thank you.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Let's get into it, man. You've been running for quite a bit of time, right? And so let's talk a little bit how you started running, when you started running high school, college, whatever.

Casey Novelo: Yes. So I guess it, it goes back to my sophomore year of high school. I was going to Trinity High School and whole life, played basketball. That was really like my favorite sport, my like. Passion wasn't by no means was a runner, really. It's I guess I did a little bit of running to stay in shape.

But so going into my sophomore year, I was trying out for the high school basketball team at Trinity High School here in Eli. And the, it was like after the tryouts one day, it's the JV coach. He was the head cross country coach, and he recommended to the boys trying out, it's like, hey, it's like, it would look really good to go do cross country, get you in shape and I wasn't really thinking about it.

Again, really not much of a runner, [00:02:00] honestly was one of the slower guys, not very quick on the basketball court, but two of my buddies it's like they went up and went to talk to him about cross country. I was like, dude, like I'll hop in. Yeah. It can't hurt. It can only help.

I like, I stuck through it. The other two guys ended up not sticking through the whole season really? Yeah. So I was by no means the that good team was not very good, but I was able to sneak onto varsity after I think two guys like failed a class. So I know great and good for you. Yeah. But when one opportunity

Chris Detzel: ends for somebody, another opportunity comes up to somebody else.

I, I got,

Casey Novelo: I got the fancy Letterman jacket, so I really enjoyed rocking that at school. I'm sure, but was, yeah. Was not very good. I think my, like my, that sophomore year at our varsity district race, so the biggest race of the season, I ended up getting second to last in the whole race. So yeah, that wa that was not a great race by me.

But do you remember like a time or anything? Just outta [00:03:00] I think it was probably, I think like 2130 off the top of my head. It was a tough course, but yeah I don't, I never broke 20 that season in the 5K, so that kind of goes to show how not great our team was just being honest, but

Chris Detzel: it's what

Casey Novelo: it's, yeah.

And I thought it's like I'll stick this out. It's like after that like basketball season came across and just played basketball didn't really stick with the running. But then come next summer, I was like, I might train for this running thing. Give it a shot, do some mileage, look up some YouTube videos here and there.

And

Chris Detzel: question did you, whenever you did cross country the first time, did you feel like it helped you in basketball?

Casey Novelo: I don't think so. Really. Exactly like I, I did feel like I was in slightly better shape, but it's such different fitnesses. Yeah, it's like the yes. It's not like basketball's way, just like quick explosion this and kinda I don't know, like the pacer test.

It's I don't know if you've ever, you know what that is, but it's like a, it's like a running test where it's like you stop and go the whole time and very different fitness compared to like cross country [00:04:00] running. But I felt like endurance wise, I was definitely a bit better. But it didn't really

Chris Detzel: help playing basketball better.

Casey Novelo: My coach, like when we did runs like sprints after like practice for basketball practice, it's like I got to skip out on that 'cause I ran cross country that morning. So that was a plus. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So then like junior year of high school, like I started training a bit more over that summer and just running more, running consistently.

And, I like started like recruiting a few of my, few of the other teammates and we started just like building a better team. And that junior season of mines I was able to get my 5K down to a, I think a 1750. So quite a good jump. That's huge. Thank you. And as a team, we were able to make it to regionals.

We got thi place, third place as our, at our district. And so made it to regionals and that was like the first time in I think 15 years that as a team we made it to regionals. So [00:05:00] a big deal and really like we had a pretty good group of guys and just starting the culture there.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Casey Novelo: And so there's nothing that

Chris Detzel: helps besides winning when you start winning. Yeah. And you're a little bit more motivated. Absolutely. You like, oh, next year we're coming back

Casey Novelo: three first we got our, we got some medals, so

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Casey Novelo: It was really fun. I really, we didn't do great at regionals, but just like making there was really big for us.

And then huge. I did, yeah, basketball was all right. I started like falling outta love a little bit and so I did like track season, that was my junior year and ran was ran decently, but that got cut short 'cause of COVID, so Interesting. Really. Then COVID happened probably like mid-March, April-ish.

So started really just like beginning my focus for cross country and putting in really good mileage over that summer and was able to again, like recruiting the other guys to come run with us. And by my senior year of cross country, I got my time [00:06:00] down to 1620 in the five KI got like third in my, as a individual in our district race.

And then as a team we got second. So made it back to regionals and that was just really fun for us. Didn't perform the best at regionals, but really just really just started falling in love with running. And even before then, just like I, it's like in that moment it's like I, I really wanted to like, try to run in college and started reaching out to schools.

That's how I ended up getting in contact with the Texas a and m, or sorry, a and m Commerce cross country and really the idea was I, it needed to be a public school in Texas and allowed me to run on their team just financially. And so commerce was, yeah, way cheaper.

And commerce, they let me get a roster spot, so signed sometime in December there and ran a pretty decent track season. Ran was a bit more of a miler Yeah. Than like a two miler, but I ran 4 [00:07:00] 26, so That's impressive. Thank you. And that was a really fun meet Rena on my home track, home meet, had some of my friends, watchings almost won the race.

I did beat Antonia Antonio. I know. We were talking about him. So that the, a pre, pre rival was that your first college, that was your first college season for track? Sorry, that, that was in last first high school season, or sorry, last high school. My senior year of high school. Senior

Chris Detzel: season.

Senior year of high school. Got it. Yeah. Yeah.

Casey Novelo: Okay. And then in college, that was really fun, just like continuing developing. We do eight K, 10 Ks in college. So Did you get a scholarship over there or? After my sophomore year. Okay. I earned a scholarship. I was you a walk on? I scored, yeah, definitely.

Or a, I think they call it a preferred walk-on, because I did technically have like a roster spot to begin with, but

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Casey Novelo: Really just wanted to run and it's something. And really, like my college experience was like running for me. It's with, it's all my friends now and like even [00:08:00] so a lot of my buddies I'm talking to still hanging out with, still are all from the cross country team.

And that was really like, that's like really enjoyed like our calf time. That was like after, after practice we would always go into the cafeteria, have a lot of good banter there. So that was really fun and I really enjoyed my college experience by the end was able to get my 5K PR down to a 1434.

Then Maya was like four 15.

Chris Detzel: Did you ever get injured any of that time or were you pretty,

Casey Novelo: pretty stable? Pretty durable's great. I would say it's like biggest injury maybe kept me out. I would say five days. Really. I think one of my, I wouldn't consider myself like the most like insanely talented runner, but I think one of my biggest talents is just like durability.

It's like I've always been a very high mileage guy. Even in like in high school and college, I think one week in high school it's like I got up to a hundred miles, like just training, training myself. You never had a coach

Chris Detzel: or anything until

Casey Novelo: not it's so in high school it's like we [00:09:00] had like our cross country coach.

Yeah. But he gave us workouts during the cross country season, but really like after that he was pretty like hands off. And like again he had the whole basketball season to focus on. But

Chris Detzel: a lot of times what happens is those coaches, they're coaches of, they just get thrown into cross country, so they're doing basketball.

Yeah. Because that's their main thing is oh, you get cross country too. Okay, just go run. No, Uhhuh, whatever.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. And I had a good relationship with him oh, it's he was also my basketball coach, so I knew him well and I know my, like my senior year, it's as I, I was like developing and like definitely like the number one on the team, like the, I guess the team captain to an extent.

It's he was definitely like asking me sometimes it's Hey, what workouts do you wanna do this week, Casey? So that was

Chris Detzel: exactly,

Casey Novelo: yeah. But I enjoyed it and I was like, it always, it's like I felt like I knew what was like best or maybe that was like, that's a bit bighead of me. But in college, yeah, that was I had.

Like I, I followed the coaches kind of plan. It [00:10:00] was like

Chris Detzel: I'm sure they're a coach of just cross country.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. They, yeah, they're, so my freshman year I had to I got recruited by one coach and then he ended up leaving after my freshman year. So that was definitely a bit of a change. But the second coach I had, he I really liked his training.

It was, and I felt like I really developed a lot and learned a lot under him and really credit most of my like, it's like big jumps. Yeah. It's like to the training, trusting the process, big mileage and incorporating some like double threshold in my senior year, which I know that's a big talk in the, like in the running world now.

So It's big though.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. And and then, alright, so

Chris Detzel: how'd you do in college? I know you did some good times and

Casey Novelo: stuff, but, so I went as, so I was Okay. I was always, so like my entire career, like on my team, on my cross country team, I was, I think fourth on our team. My freshman year, and then I was third the next three years.

Couldn't get to that first spot, huh? No, not quite. It's like the first guy, was he was a [00:11:00] freshman with me, so it's like we developed together, but man he was a stud on the cross country course. That's awesome. That, yeah. But we were good and like we were competitive, but not necessarily like ever like competing for the wins.

It's, I think my, our best PLA placement was fifth place my senior year out of 12 teams. We were a good team, competitive didn't have the the international talent that some colleges have, and so that limited us a little bit. But I I enjoyed the it was just all pretty much local Texas guys with some.

It was fun to to develop together. And our my, my class, my, I guess like my freshman class, like there was a group of, I think five or six of us who we were there like the whole year and we really like, brought up the program and I thought that was very like, just accomplishing to like us, even though it's I think it, if the team continues this like momentum, we can, in a few years they can be pretty good, but it's just, it's a whole [00:12:00] another ball game that college.

Chris Detzel: Sure. But it sounds like you had a lot of fun. Any cool, any fun stories? No. Get to hang out with some buddies did some fun things or what's

Casey Novelo: so like commerce, there's not too much out there. It's a population of 8,000, but it's like pretty much just the college campus.

But I always remember it's like we had. Bunch of different, like routes, like just in the middle of nowhere. And so it's one time it's like we saw like a wild of boar just on the, like on the road we've been chased by cows before. Dogs. It's so really good. Just I don't know, a lot of good, like just running memories out there and just like living life and the college I guess student athlete lifestyle, it's like a lot.

It's like we had a lot of like free time and we were really like, like we had a lot of focus on athletics. So I really enjoyed that aspect while also being focused on class too. But gotta pass, gotta do well,

Chris Detzel: gotta study. That's why you're there earlier. Yeah. No. I,

Casey Novelo: I, I knew or [00:13:00] it's I always enjoyed running and it's I guess I've run some pretty good times now, but still it's I knew I was there for my education, making sure to set me up. It's like not making too much money off of running right now, maybe in the future.

Chris Detzel: I think the future's bright, there's no doubt about it. And, it'd be fun to see what you do in the future, but, so you get down with college and have some fun and get to really build some great relationships.

Do any of those folks live in Dallas or No. That you ran with

Casey Novelo: a few of them, but we're, it's it's still a bit like, all over the place, so I wouldn't say like the guys who have graduated are taking, running the most like seriously right now, but I still enjoy hanging out with them on the weekends.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Lot, lot of people will steer away from it for a while because and they're trying to go to work, trying to make a living, all these things. They've done a lot of running, they're tired of it.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. No, it's, there's a lot and I, it's, yeah, some of some of the best guys who it's like, man, you were, we were, you were so fast in college.

And it's but it's no, life. Life catches up and it's when you get out of that like [00:14:00] college lifestyle routine with working, it's like, it does take quite a bit more commitment.

Chris Detzel: Now, when you got done with college, what was ne, I mean you mentioned on the kind of the pre-show that you just went right into the marathon because you were like, I've got some fitness, I wanna just see what happened.

Yeah. Walk me through that.

Casey Novelo: So I don't, so I guess going a little bit back and like 20. 24. I ran the BMW or the Dallas Half Marathon. Okay. I got, I think I got sixth in that, I think 70 50. So that was a pretty good race and I really enjoyed that. Like I was, it's like I had never run anything over a 10 K at that point.

That was my really, I guess my first like competitive road race. And I felt like I really had like a knack for it. It's like I, I was beating a few of my, it's like a few of my teammates are in it with me and I beat them who it's like, I felt like they were better than me at shorter distances, but it's like longer.

It's like I, yeah. I felt, I just I felt pretty strong and that, and so I [00:15:00] had the idea of, it's like I wanted to run a marathon, just like see how it goes and like after and so I was like. During that April time period, I guess of 2025. So this past April, like end of my college career, I was kinda looking for some marathons and and I guess like that pretty much the week after our last, our like conference track race.

Yeah. Track. And a week after it's to, yeah, a week. I know, A week after. But it's carry over the fitness and I felt like carry

Chris Detzel: over the fitness one week later.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. The longer I wait, it's like I, I wanted to get into the off season already, yeah, it's true. So I like the, there was this one in Vermont, the Vermont City Marathon, and like I called up my mom on a whim nose notice.

I was like, Hey, do you wanna tag along with me as I go to this? And she was like, sure. So bought our plane tickets then. And signed up for the race.

Chris Detzel: Did you ask your mom so that she'd buy the plane tickets?

Casey Novelo: No [00:16:00] she just so pretty, like how, the split between us was she covered?

Like she covered her own plane ticket and the expenses, like we paid there. So Got it. I guess like rides there, food there, and like I got like the hotel there and then That's fair. So it was a pretty 50 50 split. It wasn't like,

Chris Detzel: Hey

Casey Novelo: mom, I didn't

Chris Detzel: know, maybe you had some kinda, Hey, do you wanna go with me?

And by the way yeah. Like

Casey Novelo: convince her. I was like, Hey, like you just get there and then I'll cover the rest. It's I won, wanna go with or without you. So it's

Chris Detzel: yeah,

Casey Novelo: it's so that was really fun. And that was my first time like in Vermont and like seeing the area.

And it was really. Yeah, it, and especially in like end of May, it's like, it was beautiful. It was like, a crisp, I think 48 degrees during the race, so perfect, lovely day. And so went and did that kinda

Chris Detzel: wait, okay, we're gonna go, we're gonna go deep into this marathon. Okay. Tell me a little bit about training.

How many miles were you training before? Go you can understand it sounds like you [00:17:00] understand what it takes to do all the running, maybe not marathon per se, but, you're probably in pretty good shape. Tell me what that was like before.

Casey Novelo: So my cross country, or I guess my, like my track training, it's like I was definitely an endurance guy.

I was really focused on 10 K. 5K, okay. And that season, I think I probably peaked at, I think 1 0 6 miles. So Okay. Very high mileage for a week. A week, yeah. Yes. For a week. And, I would say I was probably averaging most weeks between like 85 and a hundred. So very good blog. And that season, like I had I had run 1434 in the 5K, so that was a big PR from like the previous season, which I think my PR was I think 15, 20 ish.

So very, that's huge. Big pr. That's huge. Yeah. A lot of. A lot of stuff was just clicking, really getting into honing into the double threshold training. We, my coach ended up like getting an actual, like a lactic lactate meter. And so I felt [00:18:00] like that really just enhanced the training and like things were just clicking on all cylinders.

I was feeling very fit, very strong and ended up having like at our, like our district or our, sorry, our conference meet. I placed ninth in the 5K and that was like by far my highest finish of my career. And so I was by no means was doing, I would say like marathon training at all leading up to this Vermont marathon, but It's it, yeah, it's like high mileage, lots of like threshold and I guess like sub-threshold work, around that quote unquote marathon pace.

And it's like long runs. Nothing crazy long, but I think we got up to around 17 miles probably for our longest. Definitely comfortable with like time on feet. It's like I, we'd gotten up like, I guess 17 miles, like at an easy pace was around like two hours. Like definitely felt confident that going into the marathon, that I was I was going to be able [00:19:00] to do the whole 26 miles.

Yes, I had never run anything. I think my longest run was like ever 18 before then. It's like I looked up a few, like fueling videos. So you're gonna be fine. Got Boston. Boston, you're running eight a hundred

Chris Detzel: miles. Yeah, I think you'll be alright. I'm not saying that you won't struggle at the end, you'll be good.

Yeah. Alright. All right. I just wanted to I'm curious on the double threshold. Is you mean two a day kind of things and Yeah. So are you running like 12 or 13 times in a week? Or what does that look like? So

Casey Novelo: I would say like going through a pretty standard week of of college training back in this spring, I would say say we're not racing this week, typically it would be a Monday.

So Monday double threshold, Tuesday double threshold. And what that's typically looking is, I would say Mondays probably say in the morning. Typically we would go on the treadmills. It would be five by six minutes around, I would say on pace with one minute jog, easy, cool down warmup, probably around 10 miles all together in the [00:20:00] morning and then in the afternoon, I would say probably around 10 hours later we would do a sample workout would be a 10 by one K around that, I guess LT two range, I would say say, or probably then it's like I was doing around like 5 35 for that morning workout, that morning temp marathon effort pace, and the afternoon I would be doing like five 10 to five 15 pace for the one Ks with like one minute, one minute jog, walk, rest.

Really. I felt like with the double threshold training, it was just, you were able to like, it was a lot of running, don't get me wrong. Like we were probably doing 20, 21 miles in a day. But it's like there's no other way for me to be able, so it's hey, that's around like 70 minutes of threshold work altogether with those two sessions and.

Like that could be like, that's around I guess 10, 10, 11, 12 miles. Like that just, [00:21:00] you really, maxim, you can't really do 12 miles of threshold in one session. That's, you would be like, that's awesome.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. And so doing a session like that and then a replica session like that on, or doing a session like that on Monday, a semi replica session like that on Thursday and a, probably a fairly easy, long run.

We were, it's because of how much threshold we were getting in, we didn't really need to hammer a long run. And then filling the rest with easy runs, a lot of doubles, probably I'd say double length doing five doubles a week, including the two double thresholds. So I would say, or yeah, that's about probably doing 12 ish runs a week.

Wow.

Chris Detzel: Okay. Alright. Yeah, I just did a podcast with Brent Little. And he was talking to me a lot about that and really focused in, on some of that stuff. That's why I was curious 'cause I hear you doing it as well. Alright, so you get to the race and what does race day feel like?

What does it look like and whatcha thinking? So

Casey Novelo: I was just, marathon was excited. Yeah, I was just [00:22:00] excited. It's like really, it's like after, like the week before having like probably like the biggest race of the season for me. It's like this marathon, it was like, it was no pressure. It's like I'm there.

Yeah. Zero pressure having fun and it's no real expectations. It's gonna like I knew the field, like I looked at my competitor's, big running nerd. So I was like, it's like I know the field. I'm like, there's gonna be some decent guys to run with out there. And it's I didn't really know the course, but I that it's just like going out there.

Yeah. It's fun exploring a new city and it was a beautiful day, I think. Yeah, like mid to high forties at the start. Probably like mid fifties by the end, but. Just fun. And it's it was early morning. I think it was a 7:00 AM start time, but best kind. Yeah, I know. It was it was great.

So it just started out I guess my goal going in was sub two 30. I felt just wow. Yeah, I know. Fairly ambitious for the

Chris Detzel: moon, but,

Casey Novelo: But

Chris Detzel: it's like he didn't know you.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. It like, I always kinda saying it's like fitness is fitness. It's if I can run a fast 5K, 10 k, [00:23:00] like I to do the math, you

Chris Detzel: Know where you're at.

Yeah.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. And so I thought two 30 was a like an honest goal. Yeah. And so it just got out, started like trekking through the pace and I surpri or it's so in theory it's like I probably should have went out or it's like I got stuck in no man's land after probably five miles.

They just like the pack in front of me. We're just going out a bit more, a bit faster than I was, like, comfortable. I didn't wanna hit this, hit the scary 20 mile wall as everybody talked about, and having never ran past 20 miles. I'm like, man, I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. So took it out.

I think. A smart, yeah, fairly conservatively still again, felt fairly good through halfway hit. I think I split around a 73, 30 half, so was way on. I gave myself lots of cushion and like my fueling throughout the waist was pretty good. And felt like my stomach was holding up well, was getting in pretty good fluid.

So

Chris Detzel: were you running with anybody? Did you have somebody [00:24:00] that just

Casey Novelo: so I would say like at, so really from if I five to 15, I was by myself. But again, it's like I, I don't know. I've run, I'm a, I do a lot of running on my own and even in college it's a lot of those doubles were by myself, so it's like I was comfortable and it's again, it's like really just enjoying the race.

It's like you don't really get that type of energy at like track races. Just so it's like really enjoying it. And I think by mile like 15, I had caught one of the guys who had fallen off from the front packs and he ended up sticking with me probably for, probably till like mile 20 ish. And so we ran a good, like five mile, five miles together.

And like I felt like he was sitting on me most of the time. I was like, man, come on, help me out a little bit. I. So I, we got into some long downhill stretches that I really just started like working on the downhills, slowly gapped in. And by that point it's I never felt [00:25:00] like super, like bad.

It's like I never I felt maybe like the fueling was just good, but maybe I just didn't go hard enough. But I felt pretty good and never I dropped him, but I never caught anybody else from the front pack. But ended up, it's like closing it in and yeah, I ran 20 or 2, 27, I think 50 or 49 really places.

Did you get it? I got 13th.

Chris Detzel: Okay. And so 13th. It was a pretty, yeah,

Casey Novelo: yeah. Pretty competitive. There was a bit of like prize money in there and I it's like I did quite a bit of research. It's like I I wanted to go to this Vermont one 'cause I knew there would be at least some people around me.

And definitely some people better than me. Just, it's I didn't want to be out there by, or I guess I was out by there by myself. A bit of it, but wanted, didn't wanna go, yeah. It's not very humble on me, but didn't want to go to some small marathon and win it in a sense. I really wanted to have more competition.

What the

Chris Detzel: competition.

Casey Novelo: Yep.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And then, hey, you never know, but what was the, do you [00:26:00] remember the first place time or

Casey Novelo: two 17? It was quick. He was, yeah. That guy was, that guy's a stud.

Chris Detzel: Okay. So you ran your first marathon. And afterwards how'd you feel? What were you thinking? What was

Casey Novelo: my legs were really tired.

That was, I, I. I felt like in the race itself, like with I never, I didn't realize how tired my legs, but as like soon as I stopped, it's like I was just, I was limp. I was that, it was a pretty hilly course and it's I was limping around for a while and we very exhausted, but very I don't know, it was super fun.

It's just I don't, you don't have that, or for me at least, it's I don't have that much fun in just like a track race. Yeah. It's it's a different, it's a different feel, it's almost like describing it's like a parade. It's it's a celebration. It's like those marathons and it's like just super fun and I just I guess got the, like I got the itch for it.

It's like really just enjoyed it and definitely exhausted. Don't get me wrong, I was ready to eat a lot of food. But

Chris Detzel: [00:27:00] Did you think, oh my God, like I can't wait to do this again, or man, that really sucked.

Casey Novelo: No, definitely. Definitely a I can't wait to do this again. Okay.

It's but I feel like, which for me personally, it's I'm like, I'm just, I love running. Yeah. It's I really enjoy it. And it's you're really good at it. It's, thank you. Thank you. But it's I always I just enjoy ra racing and enjoy competing to the seeing how good I can be.

And it's like how I even going back to like my high school, like back in high school when I first got into it, it's like, it was the one sport I always felt like I could the harder I worked, the better I was gonna get. And like with basketball, it's there was a lot of kind of other factors that it's obviously it's like the more you train, it's like the better you're gonna be.

But it's like you're there with other teammates. You're there with coaching and it's like sometimes you just, you don't make your shots. It's like with running, I felt like I knew. It's like the more work I put in, it's like obviously you gotta be smart with, it can be crazy, but it's like the more work you put in genuinely speaking, you're gonna get [00:28:00] better.

And I really love seeing just the linear progression throughout my career. And it's even now it's like I just still really enjoy like developing

Chris Detzel: you, you put a lot of work time and effort into this sport of running just from what you've said in your background. And I think that's pretty impressive.

But how do you not get better, you've seen yourself get better and be able to compete at a high level college small college, but still really competing and doing well. And you saw a lot of progress and so you took it to the next step and, after college, running marathons and I know you ran a half as well, so I'm curious now that you ran your first marathon and did you decide, when did you decide that Dallas Marathon was gonna be the one?

So

Casey Novelo: I thinking. So it's like I ended up getting bib number one in the marathon, which I think I just signed up first for the elite field, but it was in, I'd like to believe it was like in June. Okay. I like signed up for the I guess I, I did the elite application and I, [00:29:00] it's like I wanted to run it, but honestly it's like this more so like this season, like I was I had been more focused on running a fast 5K, which it's like funny or it's so like the week before, like the Dallas Marathon, it's I went to Michigan.

They had a very fast, like indoor track race. They have a nice facility there up at one of the colleges. And so that was like my, a goal race really. It's like I, it's like I knew I wanted to run the Dallas Marathon and it lined up fairly well with it being like the week after the 5K week after I it's like recover.

Okay. Recovery from 5K is just significantly, yeah, I get it easier compared to recovering from a marathon.

Chris Detzel: Fair enough. But you're risking a lot, yeah, but you don't get injured yet, so that's good.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. Or knock on wood, but, so it's again, it's I would say most of my it's like I, I always had doubts on the calendar and I I thought I had a decent chance at going for the win and really competing.

'cause just based off what I ran in Vermont [00:30:00] back in May and just like knowing like the build I had coming up, it's like I ran a, like a half marathon in October. I broke 68, ran I think 67, 58. So knew I was in good marathon shape. Yeah, good

Chris Detzel: shape.

Casey Novelo: But again, was still more more honed in on like the 5K.

I was still like, I guess looking to try to get another big 5K PR, see if I could carry the momentum over. And it didn't, it didn't pan out very well. I got. I think travel. Yeah. The weeks leading into the, or I think the day before I got a little bit sick before the 5K and that didn't like with travel that, yeah it, it just did not.

What'd out

Chris Detzel: outta curiosity?

Casey Novelo: I ran 1455, so still, it was a good day. I think that's why my fifth time, it's and again, looking back like a year before then, it's like I would've been ecstatic with breaking 15. Still happy with it and still en enjoyed the trip. [00:31:00] Going into Michigan and gave it a crack.

Really blew up that last mile. But it was it was still fun. And it's I still felt like with, again, with having Dallas Marathon the next weekend, I was let me get over this sickness. Let me rest up. Really, it's like all the work, I'd done this, like this built since the summer.

It's like I, I knew the hay was in the barn, so it's like I knew I was ready for a good day.

Chris Detzel: At Dallas. Look, you're 22 years old, and so you're running these five Ks and you're, you just broke the 1 0 8 barrier and the half marathon, which is really good. Do you train with anybody like friends or what does that look like?

So I'm really, it's

Casey Novelo: like my, no, it's like I, pretty much all my training is alone. It's crazy. Except, or it's like my mom will go with me on my, on the bike. I still live with my parents right now, saving a bit of money. And so it's like pretty much any, or I would say four to three to four times a week.

She's with their, she's out there with me on the bike. Not necessarily pacing, but just for company helps sometimes time my workouts [00:32:00] on the track and whatnot. But I don't know. It's like I, I feel like more so just like for convenience with work, like in the mornings and like afterwards, it's like I'd rather save the 30 minutes of time, like just like leaving from home training by myself to get that extra sleep in.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Look, you're young too, which is. I would just tell you like there's some guys, they're in Dallas so slightly, maybe on the weekends or something, I dunno if you heard of the slots, a lot of really fast dudes and women, that can really, help push you a little bit.

And so think about that, but that's neither here nor there. But that's pretty amazing that. On your own, basically?

Casey Novelo: No, definitely interested in the groups. It's just, yeah, I would say I like, yeah, just right now it's tough. It's tough with work and it's like just get, it's getting into the, it's like definitely over the weekends and I think as I transition into a bit more of I guess specific marathon training with really like longer, long runs definitely would be nice to [00:33:00] have some company.

And so definitely look to make the trip out to Dallas Someti some weekends

Chris Detzel: hit me up. I'll, not running with me, but with the folks I could tell you who to run with. Now, so you get to Dallas, you run this 5K, you did pretty good actually, but not to what you want.

So what was your mindset kind of going in there and how was your training there? Like you feeling good or

Casey Novelo: So Yeah, I felt like I, I recovered fairly well from the sickness. Was really didn't like, I guess the, had not been doing much volume was dealing with a little bit of an injury leading up to the 5K, so like really tapered off the volume.

But I knew the fitness was good and it's like I had definitely done my highest mileage like ever in my life. I got up to 120 mile a week. So lots of running, but it's like a lot like I knew all the fitness was there and so going into Dallas, like I had gotten the, like the elite field and I knew the NAIA guys, the college runners were also there, but, so I didn't know exactly what that was gonna look like [00:34:00] looking just at the field.

Like I felt confident that it's like I could compete with everybody here and it's. I know Dallas, you

Chris Detzel: thought you might win. So

Casey Novelo: Yeah, last year you wouldn't won. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I definitely I wanted to compete for the win and knowing like what I run in the half, it's like that, it's pretty much just like trying to trying to find the lead pack.

I really felt like nobody could run away through me, away from me through halfway. It's like just basically stay with the leaders. Stay with the leaders until you either win or you lose. And so definitely felt confident going in and yeah, it was just, it was a fun race and, but definitely was.

So tell me a little

Chris Detzel: bit about your research. 'cause you told me at the last marathon you knew the runners, which I believe so. Lemme tell you, I wanna tell you this one thing because I don't think you knew it. Maybe you did, I don't know. But, doing your research from last year, Travis won it last year and so 2 26, his first marathon ever, very similar.

Kinda, background that you have, ran in college and then he wanted to run. So it's inter it's a, I don't know if Travis, but he's getting [00:35:00] back into it and he is running Boston this year, but he's a little older than you. Not much. Anyways. This year nobody knew, like Steven Fahe, the guy that actually won it.

A lot of people I don't even think he thought he was gonna run it or even run that fast, because I talked to him a couple months before and he was injured and all this stuff, and I didn't know anything about him until I, I knew him two months ago and that's, but but a lot of people didn't know that he was a potential front runner, right?

I'm sure he shocked everyone. I'm not sure I ever shocked anyone, but he didn't win by much anyways. So now tell me what you're gonna tell me, and then tell me as you think of Steven at all during that.

Casey Novelo: From the race director, I think like Paul Box yeah,

Chris Detzel: Paul,

Casey Novelo: It's like I, I emailed him like.

Probably a month or two before the race. It's Hey, can I see what, like the entry, the elite entry is looking like? And so he sent that over to me. And so I was like, so you

Chris Detzel: did your research on everybody?

Casey Novelo: I know, I did. I did my research. I knew you did know, I knew pretty much everybody on that starting lines.

I knew like Joe Hale. Yeah. Was there. And then [00:36:00] Craig our, I forgot his last name, but he was another really good runner. He, I think he ran at UTA in college, a very, quite the stud. And I was with him most of the race. And I also knew Steven was there. And I like, obviously

Chris Detzel: Did you think Steven was gonna had

Casey Novelo: a chance or

Chris Detzel: Yes.

Casey Novelo: I thought it was gonna be smart, dude. It's if I didn't win, it's like I was thinking it was gonna be either Craig or Steven who won. Alright. So it's I, like I knew That's crazy. Obviously I love that. He was just a stud, like he was a stud in college, and I was stuck in a bit of his str and knew he had been, he had some pretty good quality long run, so knew he was in shape to be competitive and Okay.

It's one of those things where it's I think he ran, or just showing how much research I do on these guys is, I think he ran 1330 Yeah. Back in college. Insane. He did, he DIDs, like that's level like I'm pretty good, but it's like that's levels above me. Yeah. And so if a guy like that can go.

It's like even with decent [00:37:00] training, it's like he, I think he always has a chance and so obviously you never know how anybody's body's gonna hold up in a marathon. It's there's a lot of factors. But yeah definitely liked his chances going in there.

Chris Detzel: Okay. All right, so you did know, so I was completely wrong.

I guess I should have thought that whenever you told me may,

Casey Novelo: maybe, yeah, maybe I was the only person who knew,

Chris Detzel: but No, probably not. Look, maybe all you guys do that. This is your competition and things like that. The NAIA guys, all they really cared about, I think was the other NAI folks.

Yeah. They didn't really care about the marathon in general. It was just, I want to beat these guys that are in the you weren't their competition per se. I'm not saying you didn't push 'em or whatever, but that's not who they were racing from. My understanding is that's what Steven was saying.

Now tell me about the marathon. How did you feel this time going into it, mile? I don't know. Walk me through mild, one to. 13, then 13 to,

Casey Novelo: 26. So it's, so going into the race, it's I felt pretty good. Like the taper felt pretty good. So just [00:38:00] wanted, it's tricky in the Dallas with being like the half marathons there, knowing where you are.

Chris Detzel: That's right.

Casey Novelo: But I knew, so it's again, like I knew the people I'm looking for. It's like I knew, like Craig and Steven were like, I felt like they were my biggest competition, so like whichever one of them was leading, it's like just stick with them. It's and so I found, ended up, I think it ended up being like a pack of six of us, me, Craig, and then four in AI guys.

And pretty much it's and again, I didn't, before the turn, I didn't know that. If any of these guys who were going out blazing fast, I imagined I expected all of them to be in the half marathon, but I wasn't too sure. But just like sticking with this pack and cruising along.

And when we eventually got to the turn and we realized we were the lead pack, I was like, okay, this is yeah, this is good. It's just don't need to worry about having to catch anybody in the front like. Just, and it's a very windy day, so I felt like I was doing, I wasn't doing much help in the group, sticking towards the back.

Yeah, that's smart. But yeah, just [00:39:00] like sometimes there'd be a, some surges here and there, but relatively speaking felt pretty comfortable. It's I feel like I'm a pretty good I like the downhills. I'm not a big uphill runner, so it's if they would get me a little bit on the uphills, it's like I would catch 'em on the downhills, but really just sticking together and cruising along.

And I think when we split like thir or like halfway ish, it was around 72, mid, and I guess going in, I was like a time goal. It's like breaking 2 25. That was like the rough time goal, but really just goal. Yeah, really more so than anything competing. It's like having fun racing. And at like halfway, it's like we had been probably cruising around like 5, 5 30, 5 30 fives.

And then at the halfway mark we're now going around the lake and it's definitely the flatter sections. So Craig, he makes a really strong move, like probably immediately drops from five 30 fives to five twenties and definitely starts like gapping us. And did they scare you a little

Chris Detzel: [00:40:00] bit or

Casey Novelo: not?

I, so it's like I felt good and I was like, okay, this is a move. I need a match. It's if I want to go for the win, it's let me I feel good. I feel confident let's go work. Let's go race. And so pretty much immediately I matched the move.

The other four, again, the, since the NAI guys are racing each other, it's like none of them match really. And it's like I'm looking behind me. So it's I can tell none of them really stick with me or stick with us. And so then it's really just me and Craig for a while. We're cruising a little bit of like surgeon here and there.

Like one of us would take it but for the most part it's we like mutual agreeance. It's like we're working together, but we're just like waiting. It's it's a long race still. It's yeah. And do you ever talk at all, or is this kind of not particularly.

We were pretty quiet the whole time. It's I felt like I was enjoying it a bit more. It's like there'd be sometimes like fans would see us or like people in cars. I remember one time we were crossing the road and it's the cars are there. They were cheering. I was, and I was like waving at them.

Like it's like he, he was a bit more serious than me, [00:41:00] but it was, it. Maybe he was just

Chris Detzel: struggling.

Casey Novelo: Who knows? Yeah, who knows. So from really like 13 to 20. It's like we it's us two. Okay. Like we're working together and I'm like, I'm looking behind me the whole time. It's and I didn't realize at the time it was Steven, but it's like I knew like some guy was lurking and Okay.

It's like more so than anything really focusing on just not like the race, like between me and Craig really.

Chris Detzel: You remember if you listen to that podcast, he was lurking. He did say, yeah. No, he was he's just keeping you in sight. His sights the. And I

Casey Novelo: and I knew he was there and it's I could tell, it's like at the pace we were going, it's like the gap was never growing.

Yeah. And we were running like really fast. We were gapping the NAI guys. Yeah. Like pretty hand, like pretty easily. We were gapping them by quite a bit, but like Steven, he was there the whole time. And so wasn't necessarily like worried, but more just okay like I still gotta run my race and Yeah.

So we get out the late I it's

Chris Detzel: just you and Craig. It's just, yeah. You two, if you can [00:42:00] keep this pace, you probably have it. I would think. Yeah.

Casey Novelo: Like I, I got I gotta win this win, win this race first before worrying about anybody else. Yeah. And so probably around mile 20, like that's when it it gets into those rolling hills, getting back to, I think Greenville a and so it's no, it's like I felt pretty good and I like, I think at that point it's like I realized Craig was hurting a bit.

And so it's like I really, again, like working those downhills, it's like I start giving some hard surges, seeing seeing where is that? Seeing what he's got. So it's probably from like 20 to 21, it's like I start gapping him a bit. I like, I realize, I think like in that mile, it's I'm not sure exactly the distance, but I probably put five seconds on us.

A a good back, like a good gap. I see him and, but it's again, like I'm looking back and I'm like, it's who's this other guy here? I was like, because eventually it's I see he passes Craig, Steven passes Craig. So I'm like, I, it's I don't know who it is 'cause it's like I haven't seen Steven the whole race.

[00:43:00] Yeah. But it's I see he's there and I think right before we turn onto Greenville Ave. It's I hear somebody like I I, I can tell he's closing the gap on me and I hear somebody cheering. It's let's go Steven. I'm like, oh man this is gonna be tough now.

No, he's

Chris Detzel: he's doing what you just did to Craig. Yeah, exactly. And so now he's got you kinda, this is awesome. Keep going, man. I know. So it's

Casey Novelo: I think so it's there's maybe two minutes, like when I during that point when I gap Craig, it's I'm like, holy shoot.

Like I might win this thing. I was like, but then it's like I, I hear Steven Lukin, I'm like, okay, like I'm easy to make me work for this. So eventually I'm not sure of the whole like street's names, but it's like we turn on the, we turn on the Greenville app, and then we get into that long, like downhill stretch and we're with all the half marathoners now.

So that, that was really fun. Like really loved the Dallas race and all those half marathoners were like, holy cow. These guys are running fast. But I think probably around, yeah, I think. I would say around like 21, 22 Steven catches me [00:44:00] and we are just flying. And I was listening to the podcast you had with Steven.

It's like he didn't realize how quick we were going. Yeah. But it's I like, when, so first, like when he catches up to me, it's like me being me, I'm like, yo, what's up Steven NCA champion? And so that was funny. He got a chocolate and he was like, he goes, he I think he asked my name and he was like I was like, it should be a fun finish.

And I love that. Really nice or yeah. Nice. It's all fun at the end of the day. Yeah. We still race. Keep going. Yeah. Still race. We're, so we're flying down, like we're flying down. Like I think we get the wind on our back and like it's a steady downhill. We split a like a 5 0 7 according to my watch and dang.

No. Oh it, god, it's fast. And it's like this, about 22 of the race, I'm like.

Chris Detzel: I can, he's trying to break you, brother. Yeah, he is. That's what he

Casey Novelo: was

Chris Detzel: trying

Casey Novelo: to do,

Chris Detzel: and no, he didn't,

Casey Novelo: but

Chris Detzel: that's what he was doing. No, absolutely. And I,

Casey Novelo: I respect it. It's like that's what he had to do. And yeah, I just, I did not have the, it's like [00:45:00] maybe the lag take maybe I, I didn't have, after that first 5 0 7, it's like I just don't have it to match.

I think. Within that next mile. Like I think I slowed down to five thirties and like he, he splits another like five 10 or looking back on Strava. And so it's that's pretty much the race then it's I I realize it's like I don't Got it. It's like maybe I, maybe looking back, it's if I really fought like listening again to his podcast is like realizing like how much he was hurting that like last mile.

It's like maybe if I really fought, it's like I could have stuck a mile or two more, but then I would've been really struggling that last bit. But could have hit the sixes, who knows? Yeah. And didn't wanna do that. So at that point it's I I still realize it's like breaking 20 fives definitely in the breaking two 20 fives definitely in the cards.

Yeah. Really had that, especially after that like goal and just yeah. And again, it's like just enjoying it. It's like like the people cheering. And then the other half marathoners, it's they're [00:46:00] like, oh, you're flying, man. I'm like, man, I'm dead. So talking to them, it's like just enjoying it and like that at the end of the day, it's all fun.

It's I just love it. It's if you're not having fun, like why are you doing it? Did you already know like

Chris Detzel: at mile 23 that you weren't gonna win? Or did you at least have that mindset anyways or?

Casey Novelo: I, yeah, because he it's like after like mile 23, it's like he had gapped me by 20 seconds and Okay.

Yeah. There's a lot of racing left, but it's like the gap just kept growing. And it's by the time we got like into the last mile when we were doing all the rounds about the city, it's I can't see him anymore. It's like the turns. So it's like I'm like. Unless he like, unless he's walking, it's I'm not catching him.

And it's I pretty much realized it's like I had like second place locked up. It's like I could tell nobody was really behind me. So just obviously focusing enough and like to break 2 25. 'cause that was definitely a goal I had. But just like trying to keep it together.

Make sure it's like focus on the forum, like nothing bad happens. And were you hurting pretty bad or? Yes, but not like [00:47:00] super, super bad I would say. It's like I don't feel like I, it's like I really went into a super dark place. Definitely probably left a few seconds on the table if I really wanted it.

But it's it was, yeah, a few seconds isn't worth that You managed it might be worth it, but a few seconds.

Chris Detzel: Maybe not.

Casey Novelo: Yeah. But no, it was definitely exhausted by the end. It's like when I eventually finished it's, I gave in a pretty good kick to make sure I got under. 2 25. I think the official time was 2 24, 43.

So really, so it was close. Wasn't definitely close. It's wasn't, was definitely locked in enough that it's like to make sure I got it. And then I was like, after I finished, I like, I collapsed to the ground. It's like I was just exhausted. It's like my legs were gone and yeah. But it was really fun.

Congratulations again to Steven. Congratulations

Chris Detzel: to

Casey Novelo: you brother. Thank you. I

Chris Detzel: mean Steven did great you did amazing as well and you give it a hot hard fought, you're gonna win some marathons for sure if you keep doing it. [00:48:00] So I don't have any doubts about it. What's next

Casey Novelo: for you?

So I'm planning to do the Kowtowed half marathon. Okay. Yeah. I'll be there looking. Looking to, I guess go for the win there. Just try to compete. But I guess my next, I guess now it's I guess this past like season and past build was a bit still more focused on 5K training. So really wanna like go.

All in on the marathon really give it a crack focus, like more like quality long runs. So looking to try to run like April 19th, the Jersey City Marathon looks to be a pretty, in New Jersey, pretty quick course, solid field. Little bit of prize money. So maybe there, maybe if I can squeak into the top three, but I think I can get into their elite field.

And so that's the next one I got on the calendar. But what's so

Chris Detzel: special about that elite field? Is there any something specific that you might would like that?

Casey Novelo: Really, so one, I saw that with a sub 2 25 marathon, you'd be able to get quite a bit of perks with hotel accommodation and some other, it's [00:49:00] like they had like bottle service out on the course and potentially like pacers like like a two 20 pacer.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Casey Novelo: Really? Yeah. Pacer. Yeah. Or I think they're also like trying to get a, like some Olympic trials qualifiers, pacers if the field is there for that. So I think it also seems pretty flat, like anything's flat compared to Dallas. But yeah, I wanna just, it's I'd like to try to go run a run a fast.

Like I feel like I had Dallas, like that was just a very windy day. Yeah, it was tough. It's a tough course. It's a tough course. It's I feel like I, I left some minutes, like I feel like I'm in closer to like maybe 2 22 shape on a, just a quicker course, like better like wind day. I think like this Jersey City Marathon.

I think obviously it's like weather permitting. I think it, it looks like a course that I can run pretty quick on, and so I two

Chris Detzel: 20 is a possibility for you.

Casey Novelo: Yeah that's definitely I guess my big goal for 2026. [00:50:00] That'd be fun.

Chris Detzel: A hundred percent, dude. Thank

Casey Novelo: you.

Chris Detzel: I think that's doable.

So you said something about bottle service. It's funny because Steven said that too. You think that would be a big perk? Or is that a big

Casey Novelo: not a huge perk, but I think it'd be nice. It's like I, I did mainly gel or pretty much only gels and like just taking like the water cups. Yeah.

And I do quite a bit of my training if I I have my mom on the bike. It's she'll bring a, like a carb mixed drink. And I do like it. I feel like it's a bit easier just getting in. You need a balance in just getting carbs, but also getting in hydration. Especially on I feel like I'm a bit of a sweater, so it's like making sure I'm not getting too dehydrated.

So I think bottle service is, it's a nice perk to have. Do you see yourself doing Dallas again or Def Definitely. It's on my calendar. I'm definitely like don't have my full like fall 20, 26 season planned out. But we'll definitely run Dallas. That's a for sure. Marathon come back, marathon half, probably the marathon I wanna get.

Yeah. Yeah. Not,

Chris Detzel: yeah. I think there's a huge sh dude, man. What a great [00:51:00] conversation. Like I really enjoy this conversation. I just enjoy the competition that you guys go through in your mind and to run a 2 24 and faster and things like that, you have to. Know what you're doing like in a marathon 20.

When you look at a person like myself or something like that, I'm just trying to get through the marathon and trying to hit, a three 20 or a three, it's d it's a different mindset and you're trying to go for the win, potentially the win, especially at something like Dallas, right?

And so you have all these strategies around, all right, the first six miles I'm doing this, then six to 12 I'm doing this. And then, I wanna do this from, 15 to 20 and then 20. I just really want to go at it hard. Just like you and Steven going at it and hitting a 5 0 7 mile, at mile 22 or whatever it was, 20, whatever, that's insane, but that's the rates, that's what's going through your mind, and man, that's exciting to me. And I think that it's fun to hear, what you guys are going through and then all this stuff. Is there anything that I missed that you're like, oh man, we should have talked about this. Whether [00:52:00] it's training or the marathon or what's next?

I don't know, whatever it is. Anything that you put out there?

Casey Novelo: I don't think so. I think this, or we've been talking at it for a while, so no, I think we got a lot covered. Good. That's pretty, pretty much my story up to here. But yeah, just, I don't know, I, something I always like, it's like looking at so many of these marathoners and it's like I have so many years under my belt and I think that's something that really keeps me going every morning.

It's like some of these, the best marathoners out there, it's like mid thirties and it's like thinking I have 13 years left easily. It's 13 years before I'm 35. It's what can I do? And it's that's what keeps me going every morning, like just keeps me excited about trying to see the, all the potential I have.

Yeah, and just really enjoy that. I would

Chris Detzel: say I think you should get out and train with some of these really fast guys. I think that'll help in some ways, to obviously get to know them a little bit. You've done that in the past train with really fast people, but, start training with some marathon people.

If you can on the weekends or something. The slots are a great group. Steven is great. He's here on the weekends sometimes, and there's this guy, Travis Dowd, [00:53:00] they all live in Dallas that he's, he wants to hit under two 20 at some point. You're not, they all have, they have big goals and can potentially run at your speed or actually can, so I'm just saying nothing like training with these guys.

Matt Campbell is the leader of the sauce, and the really fast guys. I dunno, it's my thoughts. Casey, man, this has been great. I really appreciate you coming on.

Casey Novelo: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it too.

Chris Detzel: All right. Thanks everyone for tuning in to another DFW Running Talk.

I'm Chris Tetzel. Don't forget to rate and review us, and please go to DFW running talk.substack.com for our newsletter. Casey, thanks again.

Casey Novelo: Absolutely. Thank you.