Zero to Boston in 8 Months: The Insane Running Journey of Dr. Matt Campbell

Matt Campbell | DFW Running Talk
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Deel, so let's get started.

Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today to the special guest is Matt Campbell. Matt, how are you

Matt Campbell: doing? All right. Thanks for having me.

Chris Detzel: Appreciate you coming on. Jennifer Pope is the one that said I should talk to you, so I was like, I will. And so I just wanted, I think I sent you a message right when she said that.

Matt Campbell: I got like a buzz on my phone. I think it was like, Chris is following you now, and I said, Jennifer, did you just talk to him? And she said, yeah,

Chris Detzel: that's funny. It's funny have,

Matt Campbell: I have heard to thank or to blame because, I I love hearing my voice and I love being recorded, so it's great.

Chris Detzel: You're gonna do great. And I think the biggest, or one of the reasons that she mentioned that that you should be on is because you're a coach, and so you have a, I guess you're coaching a bunch of athletes, so here we are. Yeah. All right. Let's do this, Matt, tell me a little bit about yourself.

How you started running, why you started running and then we'll go from there. How about that? Sure.

Matt Campbell: Yeah. So I definitely would consider myself someone who I truly [00:01:00] picked up the sport, in the way that I do it now as an adult I was not a runner growing up. That's not totally true.

I was obsessed with running and fully thought I was gonna be a highly competitive runner in, in middle school I ran like a. I think I ran like a 5 0 2 mile in seventh grade. And I went to a high school down in Houston that was like churning out runners at the time and thought I was gonna be the next great thing.

And then I I broke my hip in a basketball game in like eighth grade. Yeah. And so I. I recovered pretty quickly and I tried to do track cross country the fall of my freshman year, but just had so much pain every time I got above five miles. So decided, it's just not worth hurting, and pivoted over and became a swimmer.

I, I was already a swimmer, but I decided that'll be my sport. I hated swimming. Every time I played any other sport I got, every time I played any other sport, I got hurt. And you know what they tell you when you get hurt is go swim. So eventually, I had enough injuries, I said, screw it, I'm just gonna swim.

And I, so I swam through high school, pretty high level.

Chris Detzel: It's probably good for you though, right? Like, when you look back it's probably what at least I wasn't injured,

Matt Campbell: yeah, for sure. It was great. Again, I wanted to be [00:02:00] involved in a sport. I just loved being, being active.

I love being part of a team and that's been always been a theme for me in my life. And so I. So finding that I have friendships from back in high school from swimming that I still carry with me, so it was great, but I decided I just didn't love swimming enough to do it in college.

So I didn't continue it once I got to, to Texas. But I actually picked up competitive club, ultimate Frisbee in college. I don't know if much about that, but it's actually, people out there on the quad plane, but there's actually like a whole.

Pretty intense, even professional league now. But I did that in college. And then after college I went to med school and then slowly beyond that, I, I just got less and less fit and to the point of being quite outta shape. And it was really when my second daughter was born, she's six years old now, so I can always remember how long I've been, back and running.

My second daughter was born like six years. ~ ~Six years ago only. Yeah. And I was in the midst of a medical fellowship and it was pretty intense and just really was unhappy with my health and fitness and decided, you know what? I need to make some changes. So I started running, I was in Houston at the [00:03:00] time and I went out for a run actually to deliver like a birth notification.

It's like a friend that lived two miles away. And I'll never forget, like running over there. I show up on their doorstep and I'm like, gasping, like about to puke. Seeing stars running two miles, you have two more miles to go back. It was like eight 30. It was like eight 30 pace because I remember this and I was like, dry heaving and rang their doorbell and like a babysitter shows up like they're not even there.

And I was like, I just trying catch my breath and explain who I am, right? And that I'm their friend. And eventually. We figured it out and then I slowly walked, jogged home. But I did that run and I signed up for a half marathon two months later, and it was pretty painful. That doesn't sound smart at

Chris Detzel: all.

Matt Campbell: Yeah. And I've done a couple like, couch to half to couches at that point, like once every two years. Oh, okay. But I finished that half and I said, you know what if I just keep running what if I sign up for another one? That was in March. I signed up for one fall in Houston.

So

Chris Detzel: Hold up real quick. What'd you run your first half marathon? What do you remember the time?

Matt Campbell: That run that half marathon I [00:04:00] had run like in medical school I ran like something in the one thirties. I, I trained for 10 weeks and that was pretty good. But I slowly continued to get more out of shape.

So I ran that one in March of 20. I, in 2019, I guess I ran 1 48. Okay. And it was alright. Yeah. So I ran 1 48 then and I said let me keep doing this. And that was in March. And by the fall having run more continuously, I got down and ran a 1 29 and said, Hey, I can get pretty good at this.

Yeah. I don't know how good, but I'll keep going. And so I kept sticking with it, kept signing up for races and then we moved. Here in the midst of a pandemic in 2020. I came to Dallas and I'll say that was really an inflection point for me at that point. I knew I loved running, but I had no concept of what like serious running was.

I'd been doing all my runs solo from my house. I didn't really know what a true, like I knew what workouts were, but there, it was just run a little bit faster for a bit and then slow down and recover. But I got here and I, it was actually, you're doing a lot of speed

Chris Detzel: work.

Matt Campbell: It was a lot.

It was. It was a lot of [00:05:00] VO two max. I feel like I, I would just would sprint until I'm like, dying and then I would stop. A lot of us do that. It was actually like in anticipation of moving here, I said I really wanna start connecting with the community. And so I went and looked online.

I like what are some of the groups? And I saw the White Rock a running co-op actually. And I followed them on Facebook and I remember moving here and like really nervously crafting this message to Javier, who I know you. Had on a couple times and said, Hey man I'd like to come out and join the group, is that cool?

And he said, yeah. And I showed up and there was just all these people out there, and all people who running was just a just like a big part of their life. They did. And yeah, and it was just awesome. And so I started showing up on weekends and then they started inviting me out for weekday runs.

And they're, at that time I thought, I'm never gonna run a marathon. I actually promised my wife I'll never run a marathon, I said, I can't do that. It just got so normalized here, right? Everyone runs marathon. You're crazy if you don't run a marathon. And so it, I moved here in that fall of 2020 and that's right.

I remember that. Started working with them and by 2021 I signed up for the Woodlands Marathon and, on eight or nine weeks of like [00:06:00] marathon training, ran it. And it was a pretty good experience. And yeah. So from there, how'd you

Chris Detzel: do?

Matt Campbell: I just, yep. What's that?

Chris Detzel: How'd you do on the marathon?

How'd you do on your first marathon? Pretty

Matt Campbell: well. I ran a two 50 Jesus. Yeah, it was pretty good. Pretty good. A theme will be like, set high bars and I'm never happy with my result. My friends know, like Matt's always brought me like, finishes, races. 'cause Matt never is happy with how he does.

And I need to get over it, but that's just who I am. But yeah, from that point, I just, what happens, I really it, like running was gonna be part of my life. And it was going to, and I wanted to run for a long time. But, I think I've alluded to I'm a physician professionally and I just love, I've loved science and I just really got into trying to understand the science and.

And some of the nuances of endurance training, right? And so started reading about different training philosophies and the different physiologic benefits of all of that. And so this hobby, started to meld some of my different interests beyond just running. And so that just, started to become this thing I would, I built a group where we're talking about these different types of things.

How do you train, what are the. What are the different [00:07:00] type of workouts that achieve a certain different benefit? And, uh, and so I think that's always been a really important part of it is not just running, I mean running is therapeutic and healthy and all that, but also like really thinking hard about the why of it all.

And then I'll say I hit, I hit a point in 2020, like that fall after running that first marathon where I was. I was training and thinking I was training smarter, but I was just training so hard and just really didn't, hadn't quite appreciated how hard it is to, it's one thing to understand how to train well and it's another thing to be able to control all the emotions and the adrenaline and everything of training.

And and I was training harder than ever, but getting a little bit overtrained. And I actually, I hired a coach that fall. And you actually just had him on Calnet. I thought that was crazy.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Campbell: That, that you've interviewed so many different people that I've crossed paths with, but I worked with Cal for,

Chris Detzel: he's great for a year.

Matt Campbell: He really helped me just understand. The importance of dialing a back a notch on some of your training. And I probably made one of my bigger leaps forward as a runner working with him and just [00:08:00] learning from him. The problem became is that I loved doing his workouts, but I developed this community that I was, that was growing and a group of runners who I loved to run with, and at first they were happy to do my Cal workouts, but then they all wanted to do their own thing.

I wanted to run with them, yeah. I was trying to do cow's workouts and I was trying to do their workouts 'cause I just wanted to run with them. And that was a recipe for disaster. And to hang out after a few, after a year, I just said, Hey cow man, this has been great. But I think for now, I just really wanna, I really wanna run with my friends.

And I really also want to just explore. Explore how to train on my own a bit. Right? Trial and error and just seeing what works for me in the context of running with this community. So that's what I've been doing for the last few years. And there's been ups and downs with it.

I've certainly dealt with more injuries than I would like but I feel like I've tried to tackle injuries as a really great opportunity to learn.

Chris Detzel: So tell me a little bit about, so we'll get back into that because interested in injury stuff and you being a physician and all. Kind of physician, are you, just to, just so I'm clear,

Matt Campbell: I'm a pediatric oncologist.

Chris Detzel: [00:09:00] Okay, got it. So when you talk about the community that you are starting to be a part of, did you start the community or did somebody else start it? And then what's the community? And tell me all about that.

Matt Campbell: Yeah, I certainly cannot take credit for starting any community. Like I told you, I came in, there already was a pretty great community here. I think that when I showed up at the White Rock running co-op, there were some pretty serious runners there like Brent Whittle and Javier and others, but they mentioned like White Rock is really a come one, Kamal to it. And they weren't, specifically focusing on like maybe training groups at that time.

I would say that sort of. A slightly different group of people. We started to come together and it was pretty informal and nebulous of just people who wanted to do similar types of training. At the same times of day and days of the week. And there was a group, actually there's a group that was formed up more north, like in Plano.

And then we had a group down here that did a lot of, in Dallas running with Pegasus. You're familiar with trained Pegasus, like we ran with them. But we had different training principles to some [00:10:00] extent. We, our workouts were different. But the north and the south group, Jennifer Pope and Eric Breville and a few other people and Maddie Steyer and then myself and a few others from more like in the city, just started doing more training together.

And that group is what is now a little bit more formally called completely sloth. They're the sloths. And I would say that, at this point, I would say that I do a fair bit of leading that group. Corralling, corralling the group perhaps would be their turn. Coring is the. But I like, I think we like to we're formal now we're known, but we also like to be a little bit still nebulous and bohemian and when are the slots gonna show up?

Where are they gonna show up? What are they gonna do? We're a little, we're a little like deliberately unstructured. Not to, not to not to put us into fit us into one, one specific box, but but yeah, it's it's great. I think that we feel like one of our big goals is to lead by example in terms of how seriously we take our running, but we also balance it really well with busy professional lives, busy personal lives.

I think one thing that's really important for us is we don't [00:11:00] take ourselves too seriously. I like to say we're fast, but we're probably the group having some of the most fun out there too. I think we're. We're a competitive group. We're not scared to compete with even with each other, but we don't, it's not a comparison and it's, there's just, there's zero toxicity in our group, right?

Like we all want each other to succeed. I, as much as I want to kick my friend's ass in the race, like if they beat me, like I'm super happy for that. Exactly. Yeah. When they're passing me, I'm cheering them on. So it's, and I just love that the sort of that culture that we're trying to set and and other groups are doing it too here but I, we are really proud that we can contribute to that.

Chris Detzel: Look, I think that being competitive is what fuels me and a lot of other people. But at the same time, if I have a bad race, I'm not hoping that. Somebody else is gonna have a bad race. I want everybody to have as good a race as possible. And if you beat me, great, but I do wanna beat you.

You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. There's wrong with that.

Matt Campbell: I think it's just important. Sometimes people like walk on eggshells about that stuff. I'm like, no. It's okay. We can compete, but we also have to learn. One big [00:12:00] thing that you can get in trouble with is when you're training and turning every single workout into a race, right?

That's, yeah. You want races to be race day. That's true. And you want training days to be training days. And we're getting better. We're getting better at that, I would say. The process.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I've been parts of lots of different training groups and one recently that I've joined is, I don't know if it's really a group, but I don't know if you know who Jose Lopez is, but his philosophy, he's been around the running community for a long time, but his philosophy now for him and even for the folks that kind of run with him, a lot of Hispanic folks that run with him, and he is very slow.

So he's running, three hour, my three hour marathons are under or whatever. But. He's, we're running 10 minute miles, 10 miles on Sunday. And so for him, he gets a lot of his speed work during some of these club races. So if it's Plano Pacers or DRC or whatever, it's 5K, half marathon, five mile or 10, whatever.

It's, he's his training's a little bit different and he does a lot of miles for him and the [00:13:00] group does, they'll do. A lot of slow miles, that's their philosophy. But I've been part of training groups to where, you get some really competitive dudes out there, people, and you're running these really fast Hey, we're supposed to run six minute miles, or whatever it is.

We're hitting like five forties. You know what I mean? It's okay guys, slow down.

Matt Campbell: Yeah. I think it's just a. I think, and we can get into, I can tell you more about my coaching and how that happened or how I stumbled upon it, but I think that, it's just so important that we make sure that we are getting out of our running what we want.

And that running can look different for all of us, right? Depending on our interests and our passions. And what, what I tell athletes is, how is running restoring energy to you? 'cause we have so many things in life that are drawing energy and none of us are gonna be professional runners.

This is not gonna, this is purely a choice and it has to be restoring your energy. And so that, that can look like different things for different people that can look like different things for the same person at different times in their life. And, you just have to, and you have to every once in a while reflect and decide what it's gonna be.

And like for me, for example, I mentioned that I. [00:14:00] Wanted to just be able to train with some friends and experiment with work workouts and grow that way. And that was great for a while. But I also. I tell anyone that if you want to, if you want to be your fastest self, like if you wanna perform the best and raise this, you need to have a good coach.

You're gonna be faster if you have a coach because they're gonna be this person who is gonna bring a wealth of knowledge and perspective, and they're not gonna be they're not gonna be nearly as emotionally invested as you are in the performance and they can pull you back and say. Look, I know you wanted to race that workout today, but that is not gonna benefit you on race day.

Like I know you can run, I know you can do five 30 miles, but you don't need to do five 30 miles to hit that goal time in the half marathon in two months, do your six minute miles. Yeah. And you're gonna be mad that you feel like I'm holding you back, but that's the purpose of this workout.

And so if that's super important to you, if hitting prs and performing your best on race day is important to you. Then you should probably consider having a coach. Not everyone needs to be coached, now if that's not as important to you, if you just wanna run with your [00:15:00] group, then and every once in a while you throw down a crazy workout with your group and that's what's restoring your energy.

That's awesome.

Chris Detzel: Very, I completely agree with you. I think that, if you're trying to hit prs and things like that, you need a structured workout. And certainly if you can afford a coach. I think getting a coach is gonna be extremely beneficial to you because it's not just about the training plan, but it's like you were saying, Hey, let's not do the five thirties, let's do the sixes, let's go on too fast.

We need to do this and do that. And having those conversations with that athlete so important. So we'll talk about your coaching in a minute 'cause I'm highly interested in that. But. You've run several marathons. Have you run Boston? What is kinda your thinking now and where you, where are you at today in your running journey

Matt Campbell: for you?

Sure. Specifically I have done Boston once. I did it actually as my. Second race, I, I ran that Woodlands Marathon, ran two 50 qualified, and signed up for Boston like a week later or whatever, whenever the window was. And it was that weird fall Boston and I went into it. I was on a super high of I'm [00:16:00] getting faster and fitter and great.

And I just admittedly had a ton of RA running hubris. Like I was like, that first marathon went pretty well. I didn't bonk until mile 23. Marathons aren't that hard. And so trained hard all summer. You had friends. I had friends that kept telling me, man, like they were like, do not underestimate Boston.

They were just like,

Chris Detzel: I

Matt Campbell: know you're getting faster, but, and I, until you, sometimes you just have to live it to believe it. And I, that was easily my worst race. I spent all summer training for Heartbreak Hill. I didn't even, I didn't even make it to I cramped up at like mile 12 and I was running on cramped legs like 12 miles up.

No way. So Boston was a humbling experience for me, and I haven't gone back yet, but I've run like six more of Because

Chris Detzel: you're like, oh.

Matt Campbell: I actually interestingly, I did sign up this, I signed up this year and I, unfortunately, I've had the, I'm not gonna go first with family reasons, and it's like Easter weekend and we're just gonna, we've decided we wanted just do, stay here and not go, I'm gonna do the, I'm gonna do just because I want another marathon experience.

So I did Houston back in January. How'd you do it? And [00:17:00] so. That was a decent race, but I struggled at the end again. Which has been my mo unfortunately in, in marathons. And I feel like it's good to get more than just like once a year under your belt. And so anticipating a fall marathon and a fall marathon build, I wanted to just get another marathon experience on my legs this spring.

So I'm doing like the Irving Marathon at the end of March. So I'll do that one. Who knows what the weather will be like. I just did the cow town half like a week ago, so that went all right.

Chris Detzel: I did too. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It was a nice race. It

Matt Campbell: was a, I'd never done the cow town before, and that was a tricky little course.

Yeah. A lot of turns and like it rained that night before. So it was really slick and I don't know I'm just not a, I, maybe I'm just not agile enough, but the turns were really hard for me. I actually, the big hill at mile nine I actually enjoyed that to some extent.

Really it was actually the terms that were challenging for me. But yeah, and I'll tell you like in terms of a running journey, so where I am now is after I ran or in the Dallas half, had a pretty nice halftime. I ran the Houston full and I did have a slight PR there.

But I've, I'd say relative to what I [00:18:00] think that my training has me capable of doing I've to some extent underperformed. And I think I've. Said, let's talk about that. Let's talk about, I try to be very transparent, but I've always set out,

Chris Detzel: yeah. Let's get a little bit more specific. You ran Houston and what was your pr and then what were you thinking you can do?

Matt Campbell: Yeah, that's, yeah, for sure. So I ran, I'd run Houston the previous year around 2 33, and then this year I ran a 2 30, 2 59. ~ ~That's great. Not a bad time, it's really good. I think my, my friends would not disagree in saying, if you looked at my training and said, what is this guy capable of running?

I should be probably in the teams at this point, but I'm not. And so you can say what your training, has you capable of all you want, but unless you do it on race day, then it doesn't matter. I, like I said, I, I. I am coaching now and I see the benefits of what I can provide to other athletes in terms of confidence, in terms of preparation, and decided, hey, if I'm gonna be serious about my own running, I want to get to that next level.

I need to be coached. So I actually, I've actually picked up with a coach of my own in the last [00:19:00] month. Who'd you pick up? So his name's Jared Carson. He's a guy, he's actually based out of Oregon. He actually works with Ryan Hall's run free coaching group. And one of my friends here put me in touch with him.

So he's been coaching me for the last, really just like three or. Four weeks. He's got a pretty, he ran c Collegiate track and cross country. And then he was a he qualified for the trials and ran the trials one one year on the marathon. And he's got his own pretty impressive pedigree.

But he's just, he's good for me 'cause he's just a really down to earth guy. He's same age as me. He's got a kid, so he kinda gets, that you gotta fit training around some of that stuff too. And that stuff impacts, impact training. He's been a really good match for me and I'm really excited for that.

Chris Detzel: What do you think about folks like. Travis, he goes out and runs his, now he's a collegiate a, he is a collegiate athlete. Ran 60 or 70 miles already and doing really well. But his first marathon, first he wins, but he gets a 2 26.

Matt Campbell: It's unbelievable. I think he's an asshole, I think, come on man.

That's not cool. I remember seeing him, I was out there cheering for him. Like I finished the half, I ran the half and I, we were [00:20:00] cooling down and I was standing there and he's charging up mile 26 and just looks so happy. And I was like, you jerk come on. But I know ~ ~Travis is wonderful though.

I, I think that some people. I'll be very honest. I know Travis' training, I fall, he and I have done some training together. He's obviously very talented and he knows how to work hard, and he's, he benefits from having done some collegiate running where he knows how to control effort level pretty well.

And but he yeah I see this from a lot of people who raced it, did c Collegiate running. They're just really good on race day compared to, I think a lot of adult runners as I call them.

Chris Detzel: Exactly.

Matt Campbell: You have to learn how to perform on race day. And that just comes with practice. And they do a really good job of just getting in a race mindset.

They're not, we adult runners. We're so obsessed with our prs and our paces and. And, that kind of stuff. And it gets in our head, and I'm totally guilty of that. Those guys just go out and run and they just compete and you can just see it in his face, right? He's just competing and maybe he's not actually competing against anyone, but he just knows how to get to that, get in [00:21:00] that zone.

And that's just something, not that day, he wasn't No but he had, but he's able to just get that mindset on race day. And in Mimi too, gosh, Mimi's have you watched her compete? That's Mimi the same way. No, she's totally the same way. She

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Collegiate runner. She's done it. She's been there. So she kinda has some ideas of. How to do that. You've been with this group for a little while. You've done a lot of running and you've focused in a little bit and you've even hired a coach, but you've got into coaching.

Can you talk a little bit about that and what inspired you to do some of it? Run a pr you've got a coach. What has inspired you to become a coach and when did you start coaching?

Matt Campbell: Yeah, great question. So I guess about. A year and a half to almost two years ago, one of my buddies named Juan Guyton, he's a guy based in Fort Worth.

And he said, Hey man, I really wanna train like you train. And I said, okay. I can send you what I'm gonna do. And if you wanna do it, that's great. And so I'd send him like the workouts I was planning to do and he was like, alright. Cool. I'm gonna start calling you coach. And I said, no, I'm not a coach.

Do not say that. He, he worked with me and it was just a lot of fun. I'd send him stuff and send him like my thoughts on how he could [00:22:00] modify it for himself. And then he started telling his friends who, they started reaching out to me and saying, Hey, could you help me too? And then like I said, they all started calling me coach and I kept saying, look, I'm not a coach.

Please don't call me that. But nonetheless, I couldn't help but continue to help them because I just was really enjoying it. I loved just talking with them about it, right? And then some of my friends here started just ask they heard that I was helping other people. We would just talk a lot on our easy runs about training approaches, training, philosophy, and.

They'd ask me for some advice and I just couldn't help myself. But even when non-solicit just but in and say, Hey, maybe have you considered this? Or, this type of workout or, you wanna do this and eventually I'm helping four or five people, with their training and sending them like Excel spreadsheets with training plans.

And I thought, you know what? If I'm gonna keep doing this, then I need to formalize it. And for a number of reasons, one is, I just, I. If I truly am gonna start considering myself a coach, I, it's just something I wanted to go about the right way. And so I did like the RRCA coaching certification, which was a, is a great course by the way, if anyone's [00:23:00] interested in becoming a coach.

I googled and looked up a bunch of different options and that was a two day course that was really high yield. I wouldn't say there was like a ton of new training concepts that I was introduced to, but like the big picture of it all was fantastic. And they even have a whole section on how do you develop a coaching business? All the different considerations you need to have with that, which I thought was really cool. But I did that. That's interesting. And then yeah, and then I've just started advertising a little bit and I've had some people come in and I just, it's just been, I have two goals with it.

I, I, I don't know, where it will lead. I just know that I'm having fun with it and so the two things that are important to me is that I'm enjoying this. That it's again, like restoring energy to my life and that anyone that I take on as a formal athlete, I just feel like I really owe it to them to do my best for them because they're putting that activity that's important to them.

That thing that is part of their identity, that thing that restores energy their. They're letting me help them with that. So it's just really important to me that anytime I take someone on that, I'd be able to [00:24:00] honor that. And so far that's, I think it's gone really well. I've been really transparent with athletes that, hey, I'm new at this.

I think I can be pretty good at it. I think that a combination of knowledge and just some of my skillset. But I'm gonna make mistakes. And there are times where I give even like a whole group, I'll give 'em like a workout and this just doesn't go well, right? Like maybe I just got the pacing goals off or something and I'll just say the guy, that was a bad one.

I'm sorry. That was not a good workout. Let's just throw that away. I'll learn from it. I've been really eager, like I've been really insistent that my athletes give me feedback. And I say, don't just tell me things are great. Like I wanna know if I'm communicating something poorly, if something's confusing, if you're not enjoying something I want feedback because when I do something, I want to get, like I said, first off, this is for you guys.

And then I wanna get better at something if I'm gonna do it. Yeah, I, I think that I'm really I don't, I guess what I'd say now is like my goals. With the coaching, I think I have a good number of athletes, and athletes will probably come and go as their life, necessitates, now I want you.

I'm glad that I'm hoping that I continue to have a positive influence, not just on my [00:25:00] athletes, but on the running scene in general. I think that I. A few years ago. Yeah, there, there have been good coaches in the area but I think it's been exciting to see a few of us come on the scene in the last few years and give people op option different options.

Because I think different coaches are the right for different people, right? We all have different communication style, we all have different training philosophies. There's different things that are our strengths that we can provide and so it's great for people to have options. I think it's so great for people to see that they can prioritize themselves, they can take this seriously.

That doesn't detract from other elements of their life that's gonna enhance elements of their life. And so like for me, beyond just me enjoying it and helping my individual athletes, I really am hoping to continue to elevate the community and then trying to add in where we can some community service and outreach now I feel

Chris Detzel: like, somebody like you.

Would do it just, look, I assume you're people are paying you to coach right now. Since you can formalize that. Yeah. You also, but it, you gotta do it for more than just the [00:26:00] money on this. You're never gonna get rich from coaching. I. Unless you just had a bunch of different athletes that, a bunch of different coaches under you that coached and you got a percentage or whatever.

Talking about business now, I'm just curious how you see it in that way. I understand that you're a physician probably do fine, overall, if you want to coach many people, then you gotta monetize that a little bit, right? Shift time.

Matt Campbell: Yeah. That was part, yeah, part of why I formalized it was I thought it was important.

Yeah, it's your time, right? And so you do need to make sure people are, that you value your time and that other people value your time and, payment's the best way to do that. I guess I also didn't wanna totally disrupt the coach. Yes, you're right. Like I, this is far from my full-time job and I, I don't necessarily feel like I absolutely need the cash, but, I can't be offering. You don't wanna disrupt a coaching market by saying, Hey, I'll just coach you for free. It's been, it was tricky at first, to be honest with you, Chris, like a lot of my athletes either already were or were becoming my good friends and I'm like, Hey, can you like [00:27:00] Venmo me now to keep doing it's a little awkward not gonna lie.

After a few months it's fine and I feel much more comfortable with it than I did. Coaching and having a coaching business costs money. The certification costs money. Having coaching insurance, which is something you, you need to have costs money forming an LLC and all the different fees.

It was expensive. So actually, like I, I feel like the first few months were just recouping losses. I did not make money on this in 2024, getting everything set up. So like that too, was an important part of it. Yeah I could see how, look for

Chris Detzel: doing. I think you should.

Matt Campbell: Yeah, and I think that, sorry. I don't know, this is probably something that the generation before us didn't really do, but I think like side hustles are like such an energizing part of our life, and you shouldn't be bashful about how do you think I do this?

Monetizing it. Yeah. No, that's great. I love this. I think, and I'm so excited for what you're doing. Like I said I feel like everyone talks all about the Austin running scene and how amazing it is and all the different clubs, and that's great. And, I, coming from Houston, I know there were some big Houston clubs, and I feel like sometimes [00:28:00] Dallas is forgotten.

In all of that. And I just am so excited for people to find different ways to show man, we have a lot of runners here and a lot of interesting people in our community. And Dallas is a great place to run,

Chris Detzel: yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I think that, like Jennifer brought this up, she goes, Chris, one of the things that would be really cool is if, and you know this is gonna publish later, but is what if we had like these guys that are running two hours and 35 minutes and lower are trying to, in Boston. And we do a panel or whatever. I was like, oh, that's a great idea. So gimme their names.

So get all their names. You probably know 'em all. You mentioned Aaron, Jennifer, although she's not running Boston. She's running London. Matthew Baron. Yeah. Aaron Pearson. Brent Wood will be on there. Mimi might be on there. And Rena Weller. Really some top athletes in Dallas. And one of the things that I wanna bring to light, and this is one I'm c certainly what you were talking about was this kind of view of Dallas running Dallas-Fort Worth running, and all the races, race directors, but also the runners.

We have some elite [00:29:00] runners in Dallas that are, or even almost elite or semi leader or whatever that aren't even being talked about. Yeah. This is their first time to ever be on a podcast. You told me, I don't really ever do this. Jennifer Pope was never on a podcast. Yeah. Her story is phenomenal.

Like she is an elite athlete. But she didn't start running until 2021 or something like that. Oh my God. Mimi and Travis and. You and Eric, you guys are doing some really fast guys, some people, and and I wanna bring that to light and and it hasn't been a problem getting you guys on, but, because I think people want to, talk about it,

Matt Campbell: Yeah. I think it's great. And I think that when you do this. I think it's so important to just get to know the people and demystify it a little bit. And just bring more awareness. I, and I think that together I talk a lot with one of our friends at Jessica Dees, and she's somebody who moved here from Austin a few years ago.

So she's really been plugged in with that group. She's a super fast runner. She, she isn't training too competitively right now, but she's like around a 2 32 or 2 33 marathon and, she was a Texas [00:30:00] runner. But, I talked with her. I said what is it about Austin that gets so many of these fast runners?

And she said, it's 'cause they just, they run together. And once they do it, and once one person does it and they all are there together, they start to believe they can do it. And you can see that happen here. I know when I was, when I first got here, the idea of running a sub two 40 was like pretty rarefied air.

People were like, wow. Who does that? There was whittle, but everyone said whittle's like a. A unicorn, but the rest of us, we could only dream to run sub two 40. I, to some extent, everyone, I felt like a little self-conscious of setting a goal to run sub two 40, but I was like, why can't I, and now I've done it like five times and now I wanna go sub two 30.

And it's maybe a, an ambitious goal, but I believe, like it's important for me. As this personal goal, but I'm excited because I know that if I can do that, like I have a whole group here and suddenly that becomes a very attainable goal for these people that we all train with together. If I can get under two 30, then they can get under two 30, and then suddenly we have a, we don't just have a bunch of two thirties guys.

We got a bunch of you're hosting a bunch of two 20 [00:31:00] guys. On your podcast. And so yeah. And that is a really important thing for me is, showing that we can do this too here. Exactly.~ I think my video went out or I can't see it anyways. I like that. Yeah. You're frozen with a really funny face on my screen right now.~

Chris Detzel: ~It's really, you can at least hear me though, right? It's all good. ~

Matt Campbell: ~Yeah. You're frozen for me at the moment, but it's all good. ~

Chris Detzel: ~Okay. Can you hear me though? That's the test. Yeah, I can hear you fine sec. ~

Matt Campbell: ~Yeah, I got you. ~

Chris Detzel: ~Okay, let's keep the podcast going. It's got a few things to say and we'll kinda wrap it up since this.~

~It's so windy outside today and we had this really bad storm. Of course, you know it. Matt, I don't know if that's affecting my, I think my internet went out. ~

Matt Campbell: ~Yeah, I think maybe. Me too. I think that's been an issue. ~

Chris Detzel: ~All right. That seems better. ~

Matt Campbell: ~Alright. Yeah, you're back and you look better.~

~Exactly. ~

Chris Detzel: ~This technology hasn't worked well today and it's a little frustrating and it and it changed the recording, so I'll be interested to see how that works. So I'll say this 'cause I think this is important. It's not you, man. I think partly it was me too. And this technology sucks when bad weather comes out.~

~Is that. ~I like what you said about, hey if now we can think about being doing under a two 30 and you actually do it, or somebody does it, then all of a sudden everybody's gonna do it. It's kinda these world marathon elite runners hitting these crazy times that you don't think can be hit, but all of a sudden, their peers are doing it and then they start doing it.

You know what I mean? And so all it has to happen is once or twice. And it's gonna happen, it's funny you said the other thing. You said Brent Woodle is the only guy that did it. You had a, what's the name do it before him? Logan Sherman. But there was, it was a very rare thing, but now a lot of people are running into Thet and I wanted to talk to you guys, I was like, who is it?

I don't know, and, and then here you guys are the sloth group,

Matt Campbell: yeah, exactly. I think that's the point, is what we're trying to do is really consolidate that talent and consolidate that speed. To your point, there's, there was Logan, and then there's Joe Hale, and then there's, and then Woodle actually starting to run with us more now.

I [00:32:00] got him to wear a sloth kit for the Cowtown marathon. So that was a small success of mine. But yeah, the idea is just that if we can get enough people together, and like you said, seeing is believing. You just gotta see one person do it and you know that you are just like them.

There's no reason you can't do it too. And the doubt goes away, right? That's what I deal with right now in my marathons, man. I feel great, and then suddenly I start to feel just a little bit not great and I can't quiet the doubt. And that's what I gotta work on. Probably one of the biggest things I have to work on for my personal performances is the mental game.

I, I just bought Steve Magnus. Book on win the Inside Game that I'm excited to, to work through. 'cause his stuff is great. But I think a big part of that is, is having a team, I dunno if you follow him on like X or Instagram or anything, but he talked about how, they've done studies that show that if you like, are facing an uphill.

Alone versus with a friend. Your perception of that difficulty changes. And I think that's like pretty poignant.

Chris Detzel: I like that man. ~I think we're gonna end it here because technology is just kicking our ass today.~ But Matt, this was a great story~ and I hope I can clean it up a little bit, because of the technology challenges, but, great story.~ Love what you're doing and we'll have to [00:33:00] do this again. Thank you everyone for tuning to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel. Don't forget to rate and review us and follow us on Instagram and all the other places that we're on YouTube and stuff like that. So thanks everyone. Take care.