Cycles, Citations, PRs to Coach: Rachel Sanchez's Running Evolution

Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW running talk. I'm Chris Detzel. So let's get started.
All right. Welcome to another podcast on DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and today we have special guest Rachel Sanchez. Rachel, how are you?

Rachel: I'm good. How are you,

Chris Detzel: Chris? I'm good. Thanks for coming on really appreciate it.

Rachel: Thanks for having me. This is a treat.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, it is a treat and and we'll see why here shortly, I think.
So you've been in the running community for a while and you live McKinney allen area, right? So I'd love to know a little bit about your background you started running when what gets you motivated to do this and all this stuff, because I'm I've never heard the story. So I'm excited to hear it.

Rachel: Yeah, sure. Oh, my goodness. So my running is fragmented. You could say from when I started to what it is now, there has been. Some development and some change and running transitioning to a different sport completely. Not completely different, but cycling. So running [00:01:00] for me, I did one year of high school across yeah all the high school cross country.
One year of track started it off in 2003. I think I went to a very small school in Virginia, like a very single a school, like our good, the fastest, then

Chris Detzel: Like single A, you really had no competition, huh?

Rachel: No. There's a few, there was a few fast runners for sure. But when you look at the development of high school athletes, I hate to say it, our topnotch, some of our topnotch high schooler, like milers, there's 13 year olds in Texas that can rival them.
Yeah. Yeah, you, a female could go to state. On a 545 mile, that's a fast mile. Please don't think I mean anything less of it. But there's 12 year olds like yeah and 4 30s 440s for the men at 13 it's not uncommon so Yeah, just to put it in perspective. Oh, it's stupid.
So I did one year of track. Oddly, I felt like the 400 was probably the fastest thing I could offer, [00:02:00] which was, yeah, I belted out one of them in 59 seconds, which isn't lightning fast, but it's somewhat quick compared to the five 50 mile Iran 12 minutes for a two mile, but we only had one distance runner and she was a senior that had.
A lot of other projects not going on so she didn't run a whole lot So I automatically got pulled out of four by four cleaned up 200 And 800 and put into the 16 and 3200 every track meet so

Chris Detzel: I did that as well and I did cross country and then I did the mile and two miler and I just remember You're doing the mile in two miler like sitting there all day on the you know Outside hanging out, it was brutal, you know I remember my last so my so and I wasn't I mean I was fast like I was running 5 15s You know for the mile or whatever, but I wasn't even close to being that fast.
As a matter of fact, my best mile was a 5 12 And high school and I got dead last, aww. Yeah, but, [00:03:00] I didn't, I didn't care, but I just went out too fast and, those were fun times, but really hard. Anyways, go ahead. Sorry. No, I like that.

Rachel: I like that.
Yeah, that's kind of the thing with the mile too, like you're saying, it's like you've got fast and it fades. That's not bad strategy and you're trying to get out that first slap .

Chris Detzel: I was 17 or whatever. I didn't have a strategy. I just ran, just ran. Yeah. You

Rachel: know what's funny is that you say a five 12 got you dead last and hey, that is what it is.
But you just think now either one of us trying to run a five 12 oh man, like that's very at my very upper end. If I had to absolutely empty it. 'cause that's only. I think a 509 in the last several years of run, but that was like a road one. So

Chris Detzel: still people can vote on how awesome and fast you are right now.
But look, you are speedy for sure. So you got into running as a high schooler in high school and then you quit

Rachel: Yeah, I did cross country all Throughout not a really good. Coach the late. [00:04:00] Coach chrisman

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Rachel: He was he passed away in 2016, abruptly, suddenly, unexpectedly from a heart attack.
Now we can dive into why that made me a little more serious a little bit later if we want. But so he was a good person to me. When I was raised by grandparents and long story short, so my grandfather died and when I was in 10th grade and he was a very generous man, he, looked after his runners really well or any of the high schoolers, and he also taught courses of course, and he knew, I've gone through all that.
So he is right place, right time. So I also wanted to do him the honor of at least finishing cross country. I had no interest in it. Like cross country is fun because the courses were wild. They're pretty rugged in the East coast because I grew up in Virginia. Up down, no spikes, mud, mess, what have you, and I was able to go to state for once or twice, once at least.
I think I can't even remember. But my attention started to turn to cycling and the running was, I was decent enough. A couple of very small colleges [00:05:00] like Christopher Newport university where maybe looking Hey, come around. You okay. But I was like already. Heart and soul into the bike by the time I was Probably towards the end of my 11th grade year in 12th grade.
I was definitely actually racing the full virginia Bar circuit, which is just basically a collection of races with season So on my weekends, I would go travel and knock those out and race about

Chris Detzel: you I didn't know you were into cycling like that. That's pretty cool

Rachel: That's what from there until my mid 20s.
That's predominantly what I was doing was racing bicycles including for a college named lise mccray Which sadly was one of the areas that was rocked with that recent hurricane Yeah, Western Carolina areas. Yeah. So raised for them and then race for a couple of small professional teams. And then. So you actually,

Chris Detzel: you weren't just racing for fun.
Maybe it was fun, but it was also for college and doing it just like it's a pro athlete almost. Yep.

Rachel: Getting there. Yeah. I had some near misses, some really nice contracts and then just bad luck. A couple. Couple of teams folding at [00:06:00] the wrong time is financing women's cycling.
It wasn't too big of a deal. And there'd be companies that would try and, they'd do it for a year. And then budget would dry up people. So you need always at least a primary and a secondary sponsor to sign on immediately. And then all the other ones can come from there. But if you can't secure that money up front, you can't secure salaries.
And then of course there's, if you're a registered professional team, there are certain salary minimums you have to hit. I never raced that size. But I race for very small, you could call them pro am teams, but they technically were domestic registered professional cycling teams

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Rachel: so why did that for a few years?

Chris Detzel: That's pretty cool. Okay, what else so like I got into that and did you stop cycling completely or did you?

Rachel: Yes, it was abrupt. I had another like flash in the pan near miss moment rode pretty well in a race called the Cascade Cycling Classic in the summer of 2012 and I had a really good day and got some of the team [00:07:00] starting to look around again.
But then I also knew I'd graduated college and I needed to finally do something, with my degree or get a job. Yeah, I can't do what I was doing. Yeah. So I had the Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice and I have some family that lives in Texas and like you need to go to the academy and start this law enforcement stuff because that's the direction I was going anyway.
So I was at a crossroads of potentially having the head cycling coach position at Lee's McRae. Or down the road of registering for a fall police academy in Collin County, Texas, and it was a hard decision. And I know where

Chris Detzel: you're going here now, but keep going. We know I get back

Rachel: to the running because I had.
The major part of it was, once I was pulled towards that academy and having to do all that, getting into a law enforcement career, the running came back around. Police tests back then required a lot of one and a half mile runs, instead of roaming tests, which they do now. I had to, Wait, what do they do

Chris Detzel: now?
What's the test? [00:08:00]

Rachel: Rowing it comes up to rowers. Yeah, like you can do the 2000 meter. That's a pretty common one because people hate running cops hate running not all cops, but

Chris Detzel: I feel like running is probably a little bit more important than rowing, you know as a if you're chasing a suspect or something or you know I don't think you're gonna roll over there

Rachel: anyways, all this out if you wanted to but no, probably for police work if you're not going to do like a 300 meter sprint You Yeah.
Yeah. Cause the rowing actually is a double hemisphere test. You can particularly offer a sprint version of it. You show some like bolt power. That's also applied because you're not going to chase somebody on foot for a mile and a half. The most I've ever run after somebody is probably two, 300 yards.
There's a lot of safety concerns. We'll back up. You decided to go

Chris Detzel: into law enforcement. For sure. So we know you're there. And then you started to run. Yeah,

Rachel: run away from stuff. Not the cops. Can't do that no more. Yeah, to prepare for the PT test, I was like haven't run in years.
Chris Detzel: I have

Rachel: like a really high VO2 max. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm fit. But, good [00:09:00] God, I couldn't run around the block. I couldn't, I was like, ouch.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I'm on half, but you're an athlete already. So it didn't really, I'm sure you get there pretty easily

Rachel: after a few weeks. Yeah. I settled in because the thing is like cycling.
It's like you, you can become like pretty strong, but your connective tissue isn't used to that pounding. And maybe just the general muscular skeletal system isn't used to all that jarring and pounding. So maybe cyclists have more bulk power, but the connective tissue and resilience to break down is stronger a runner, I think, so I had to get used to the running again.
And it was pretty dang painful. But after a couple, three weeks, like the conditioning.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, anytime you start running in the beginning is no matter what, and if you haven't, Done it in a long time. It's very difficult. But I mean if like you're already an athlete or you were already an athlete and three weeks just doesn't sound all that long, as long as you're consistent anyways Yeah,

Rachel: no, that's a good point.
It seems interminable when you're like, oh, I just signed up for the what was [00:10:00] it? One of them. I think the first time I had to actually get after a run was DPS the troopers, they had a mile and a half run and they're all kind of paramilitary. So it's just do everything to failure and they go.
Yay. You're a candidate. Can you do math and writing? Make you do all this stuff. And so After barely being able to run comfortably a mile and a half was able to do the test and finish all that So it became a just an economic way of running like or staying fit rather. Yeah satisfy the test requirements satisfy what has to be done in the academy, but It was also just oh, okay this is my activity now, so I really wasn't riding my bike very much.
And it saves time, because if you're not You only have say 30 minutes of free time or an hour Most like you're going to probably get more efficacious cardiovascular training out of the running than you are going to out of the cycling.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I feel like plus you're in dallas or whatever.
It's a lot harder to find a place to write your book people do it i'm not saying they don't sometimes you have to You know, put your bike in the trunk or whatever, and then go somewhere to actually ride [00:11:00] your bike, and it's not easy to do it to me in Dallas. I would probably do it if I could just go out my front door and just ride anywhere, but I cannot.
It's not that easy.

Rachel: Bless the people that go out and ride. Like when I first moved to Texas, yeah, it was very dangerous. Like McKinney Velo, I did some group rides with them. I had a really bad concussion and I was trying to get back in shape. So riding with concussion issues. So yeah, that's smart.
No, don't do that. So we found some roots up north in the rural area, but this was when the population was one half of what it is now. But yeah, I just, I feel for the folks, cause okay. The worst case scenario cyclist is like taking up too much of a lane, but it's like, there's still a human being on the bike and it's amazing what people degrade themselves to doing to them.

Chris Detzel: I agree. You know every now and then you'll see it, with running I do find that some cyclists get pissed about thinking runners are on the wrong side of the road or whatever I'm like no, this is the right we're on the right we're running on the Wrong side of the road, but it's right, yep, and so a lot of people don't know that [00:12:00] and But you can't tell people anything. If most people are running on the wrong side of the road, but it should be on the other side, what are you going to do? You're not going to change the it's a weird rule.
When you think of, all right, so you get into running and, that's because you wanted to go into law enforcement and everything else, you got the job, obviously that's what you do today. So congratulations. But but you as a competitor you actually started getting into more right?
Yeah You have to be a competitor because you've done marathons and a bunch of stuff. Can you talk about that?

Rachel: Sure, I get it one thing after another I guess so, you know I kept in relative shape in my first maybe year and a half My law enforcement career, I never got like way out of shape, but I wasn't like, conditioned, you could say.
But I was also bored. I was working a lot of weird hours, a lot of night shifts. Yeah, and so I yeah, hey, you gotta pay your dues, you gotta pay your dues, but yeah, and hey, I might get stuck here. I to go back to mine. Oh, you need a sergeant at nine. So not [00:13:00] me. Anyway, so I actually went out and ran with the Frisco running company or club.
I'm sorry They just googled it because I needed like some sort of social activity But my ass wasn't going to wake up at 6 a. m Because that's how i'm going to bed so that evening run in frisco. I had a crossfit gym It wasn't at the running store where it is presently And so I started to do it socially there and then a year later my now ex husband, but I met him and we were dating for a year For a year and then we were married for a while but we met, I think, in one of the best possible ways that you can be, which is to do an activity of, mutual interest.
And

Chris Detzel: We did

Rachel: that. So then, so I started running more with him. He was training for a marathon when I first met him. So I thought, you That's pretty cool. And so enjoyed watching what he was doing and then, successful marathon I'm like, I want to do some of that and then people like hey Maybe one day you can break 90 minutes and a half marathon, the Frisco running people there's a lot of people that took me under their wing for sure.

Chris Detzel: Yeah

Rachel: So i've already been you know, i've had some experience coaching cyclists, but i've never touched a runner I thought I was like I need to [00:14:00] figure out what's up. Then we can, I guess I can say way back to something I said earlier with the cross country coach from Virginia Michael Christman.
So in 2016, he, yeah, it was October. I was at work when someone called me cause he knew they knew I adored him. Yeah. So I got that phone calls at work. Yeah. All right. Yeah, exactly. So he passed away and then there was this drc 15k, I think it was yeah in 2016 And I was in pretty good shape.
I was like narrowing down towards a tulsa. Oklahoma marathon for my debut situation there and So I was probably in shape at the time to run say 107 probably 710 715 pace maybe so like we've made work. That's pretty good running But I want like nuts on that course Cause the memory is fresh, like a couple of days before I learned this information and I was yeah, exactly.
Just in his honor or whatever, cause I never ran the [00:15:00] best I could for him and I regret that still to this day. But then he saw me actually become a professional cyclist. He followed along cause I lived in Virginia for a while after. So it's like

Chris Detzel: the

Rachel: lessons and stuff he instilled on me still came through just different avenue.
But then it's funny in my late twenties and into my thirties, I circled back and here he is again. So I even stopped in that race. The 15 K I stopped like a half mile from the finish line. Cause I had gone into the red, like hands to knees like panting, like breathing, like a Mack truck is going by Holy there I am.
Everyone here I am. But still, even with that said, I get to the finish line and 103 something, it's 640 pace. So that's considerably above the better than anything I've ever done recently, except for maybe a mile and a half to 5k. I've cranked out like sub six pace for either one of those by that point, but nothing in the distance nothing.
That was my first foray into just send it

Chris Detzel: to speed. That was your probably [00:16:00] surprised you. It sounds like a little bit that you could a bit. Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. Definitely it was running. Past any conditioning levels. And you can get that performance out of you a bit, that's thumbs down the road of what a coach can do to help you with that stuff, your motivations and just, what, screw it up in a mile into your race.
What's the worst that'll happen? Learn and do the next one. So with some of that like just go

Chris Detzel: And we'll talk a little bit about that in a minute about the coaching part. Because I think that's important but so you run this race and so does that you do it for your coach?
And I love that that's something that You know something I always tell people is, don't look at motivation to keep you running but sometimes you can look for motivation to Get you faster a little bit or whatever right get something in your mind for a race or whatever, right?
And it sounds like you had that, you know a little bit to really drive you past something that you've never done before.

Rachel: Exactly. I like that a lot. Motivation, you need it periodically. People almost say too fast you can't [00:17:00] have motivation because the night will fade and that's the honeymoon phase.
And you need to blah, blah, blah, blah, stay. So it's yes, you need to have a general lifestyle. Beliefs and system that's conducive to long term goals But it is good kindling to your fire and then sometimes you have to stoke a fire And your motivation is going to come in and through there and help you.
Yeah

Chris Detzel: look i'm all for a little bit of motivation and look i'm the master of you know Doing something for a little while and then just But then getting back in and but mostly i've been consistent. But I think that When I look at motivation people, I'll see, I'll give one David Goggins, right?
Everybody knows who he is and you know A lot of people get really motivated by his speeches and you know to some sometimes they're motivating but i'm like That's not gonna keep you going, this guy is literally doing the work, and he says that it's hey, can you sit there and do the work be part of a community be you know Do something that is going to get a coach do something that's going to Be consistently help you to be consistent and just because [00:18:00] sometimes motivation is not going to be enough.
It's not going to wake me up at five o'clock in the morning be like, oh, I don't feel motivated okay, either I go back to sleep or not So I have to push myself to get up at five o'clock and go outside and run, and or do the work that needs to be done. So anyways, I get off on a tangent I seem to get the same tangent over and over but I do think that's an important part

Rachel: Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So you have to almost pick and choose and introduce David Goggins to folks who may not know who he is carefully. I did read the man's book.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,
Rachel: and there's a whole lot to in some ways to Unpack their like, Mentorship to men obviously women can apply there too, but like proper masculinity if you will like having compassion caring knowing you came from something hard and then just You Being strong and fighting for what you want Especially if you're not being allowed to bang your fist on the table like somebody else is i don't know He's endured a lot of that.
But yeah, that's the antithesis to that though would be he tortured himself. There's just no way around that. [00:19:00] He Did a lot of stuff to his body, maybe his mind That a lot of folks may not endure or is that a healthiest way to go about it? Anything in life, don't run away from something just because you see some of the bad, and you can explain that with, whatever.
Take the good and the bad, always. Always find a silver lining, and there's silver linings to that for

Chris Detzel: sure. That's great. Wow, you put in a great perspective that I wasn't even thinking about, so thank you.

Rachel: There's no scripts, I say, but I won't.

Chris Detzel: And you should that's what I love about this. So you get in You run this 15k.
You're super motivated from your coach that inspired you the most and just really was a big, impact for you But tell me more like what then you decided, marathon next or are you the tolsa one? Okay

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I How did this go? Man, it's been a long time already. Yeah, anyway, so yeah, I did.
I started to train. Life goes fast. Yeah, exactly. Life goes fast. Oh, that was like eight years ago.

Chris Detzel: Huh.

Rachel: [00:20:00] Anyhow volume, like consistent volume, I can't even tell you how many miles a week I was running, though. I do think I hit some 60 miles occasionally. So the upside of that was like, I was probably showing conditioning to just come out of the box with a three 20 marathon.
Cause I got, I could talk and chat. And run at 730 pace relatively. So that's a good indicator of marathon pace.

Chris Detzel: Sure.

Rachel: However don't get greedy. There's a lesson I learned Yeah, or a lot of Little things that kind of added up it's like some of my running gait form. I think I over strided a little bit Tend to do that just a bit just enough to like irritate.
My heels, so I already was like compensating for a left heel issue Eventually had surgery on but it like rocked my right IT band of all things And I still have like just a touch of scar tissue from that So I went to Tulsa and I literally basically hobbled my way around that course You were injured

Chris Detzel: Going into it

Rachel: Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah. And I ran janky. I got me, I got through it. Hate to say that I limped my way to a three 29 cause that's a good time. But that's quite [00:21:00] literally what I did. It was very painful. And I had months off after that because I couldn't even bend my knee and then going to work and hiding that and hoping nothing happened.

Chris Detzel: Oh

Rachel: wow. So yeah, then it segued from there into proper training.

Chris Detzel: Okay. So how'd you think of the proper training? Did you have somebody like, Hey, look, you should train this way. Or did you just do more research or what?

Rachel: Combination. Like I said, with the first go running club, that was like my first foray into it.
I still had a lot of shoulders there for sure. And my ex husband was a very good viewpoint of, Steady, proper training. Like he he's has a lot of time under his belt when it comes to running. And then a couple of friends, so I got plugged into another run group. Craig ranch who had some, I guess a wider range of paces.
So people used to be

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Rachel: yes. Yeah. Yeah. Rick actually was a big help. He's 2016 17. Yeah. Yeah. I miss that man. He's a good overseas.

Chris Detzel: It's I'll just tell a quick story about yeah. What's his last name again? Rick Johnson. Johnson. Yeah. So yeah, he's funny. He [00:22:00] reminds me of After what's that dude on the office reminds me of him, but Never seen the office.

Rachel: I've seen it periodically, but I hate shame on me, but I don't know

Chris Detzel: Anyways, it doesn't matter. So we were he used to be a coach and things like that for Dallas running club. It's where I got my start. And, he's just very vocal, very, he's always very nice, and very helpful.
And he's the one that actually got me into to being a pace leader for the 320 marathon group. And I thought, dude, I can't run 320 because you don't need to, you have the speed to run paces and everything else you need to train. So I did it and that was, my first time to really, anyways, so he was very inspired.
And then he left and went to McKinney and lived there and then just started That's right. Yeah. Yeah, he started the whole running group there, right? That's how it got started. And, now he's in some other country, and he started a running group there.

Rachel: Oh yeah, the Craig Grant people of Norway.

Chris Detzel: Norway, yeah, that's

Rachel: [00:23:00] right. That man's been over there for, although he comes and visits here, because he has young kids. Yeah, I think in 2019 he left. I don't know why that rings a bell, but I think that's when he moved. Initially with his job. I don't, I haven't kept up to too much on those. He's still employed or has he been able to retire and he retired to Norway but yeah, he's still in it.
Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that with the pacing as I, I paced on the colony half in 2016. It was the first time I ever paced. And of course it was long That year you paced

Chris Detzel: the marathon or
Rachel: half marathon there,

Chris Detzel: okay let's

Rachel: go into

Chris Detzel: that so you you ran that marathon and got a little hurt but then took a few months off and then started getting help from others And you've run some other marathons and as a matter of fact, you've got close to super fast like 240s or something like that.
Yeah for 240s. Yeah. That was pretty impressive

Rachel: It was bittersweet. So the, my PR comes from Houston, January, 2020. Looking back, that's [00:24:00] probably if I had to pick six months of when I was the fastest, it was, it enveloped that year and month through to when the world was literally shutting down woodlands.
March 6 or something like that. 2020. That was probably, and that's my fastest half marathon. Think I had the conditioning to go to 44 to 45 with my coach at the time who's still coaches call Hefner. And he's a big volume. Big miles kind of guy if you can handle the course you always tailor stuff if you can't but So I got the flu and then

Chris Detzel: oh

Rachel: I recovered from it, but my lungs are still chunky I don't think it was like covid before covid was covid but I got the flu.
And then there was like 100 Five girls that were in this last chance when they had a B standard for the Olympic trials, which was 345. And a really awesome guy named Rick Powell was one of the pacers. And then I think there was a guy from Dallas Oh man, why am I spacing on his name? He's the Pegasus coach.
He also was helping. [00:25:00] I'm terrible with names. I blank on names. I'll randomly just out my head. There it goes, but he was helping too.

Chris Detzel: Who am I talking to again? Anyways, go ahead Rachel.

Rachel: You're not on video. There was just, the packer was too big a lot of us were getting caught out having to like, run pretty fast after getting drinks, stuff like that, and it just turned into this monstrosity, so it was a lot of stress.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Rachel: it was like bike racing all over again where people clipping heels and stuff or, really so shoving into each other Olympic

Chris Detzel: trials. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah. Yeah Oh, you're trying to get
Rachel: into it trying to get into the trials. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the last chance for it Houston 2020

Chris Detzel: Got it.
Okay

Rachel: It was like literally the day before the closing window if you wanted to do the trials the next month and end of the month in Atlanta There's a lot like I said last chance corral it's see I am in Houston or the had pacing and had the firepower like a group of women trying to do it and then Sprinkled in just other runners some men that were trying to run 245 or just trying [00:26:00] to vicariously help.
Anyway, two hours in the wheels come off the wagon for me I was like I got so close yet so far because yeah, like I did that race and by the halfway point I was surprised at how comfortable I was like, I might You Be able to do this because you like you judge things oh hell Yeah, I can do another half and a half, but you have to always remember that fatigue and then you know, yeah

Chris Detzel: 20

Rachel: miles You

Chris Detzel: know how it goes.
I mean it happens. Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah a little bit of a sugar knock and then there was like three big falls in the race. So another, like one girl stepped on another girl and that happened right in front of me. And I had to skitter across the road, like abruptly, like plant and slide and do all this stuff.
And I was like, locked up both my adductors. Yeah. So I was like I don't have any other B goals. I just jogged it in, but hindsight, maybe I should have just kept on the gas and, been a minute and a half off the time and called it good. You still did pretty well,

Chris Detzel: let's just, that's the reality.

Rachel: Hey, you know what, it's a privilege. At the end of the day, it was, I know that's an overused [00:27:00] phrase when it comes to stuff like that, but I can't even tell you the exact time it was. I always have to look it up if I've ever looked at it, but the memory of running with a group of people.

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Rachel: and that's the thing that I know we're going off on a tangent here It's like times matter in the moment when you have a training block and you're going for something Then you need to be disciplined and execute your training plan and try To give yourself the best possible chance and don't cheat yourself out of anything But just remember in the grand scheme of things 10 years later, you're not gonna remember the time

Chris Detzel: I think the reality is I agree I think look I got into running because I was overweight and You know just went through a divorce and I was like Okay, i've got to do something i'm gonna exercise and to me Because i've done it before in the past, you know as a teenager and all that stuff and maybe my early When I was 19 or whatever, but I thought you know, I gotta get in shape and I did and I think that For me, that's what running has brought is, look, I have got serious and even today somewhat serious, but [00:28:00] yeah, the reality is I'm not gonna ever, be a almost 50.
There's no way I'm going to be an elite athlete anymore. Never could anyways. So let's look at the reality is yeah. I like competing. I like doing those things and even and I'm motivated by some of that stuff, So I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And I think we should, whatever keeps us going at the end of the day Exercising running whatever I think that's important.
So I think you know for you It was a little different because you're actually really close to making the olympic trial. You had about 10k Yeah it's But that's a goal that you had to go after and you tried now did you get when did you get injured or Maybe you knew you were injured already or what happened there because you remember you had oh

Rachel: the surgery.
Yeah, that's major surgery

Chris Detzel: that you had

Rachel: it was and i'm very fortunate. To come out of it. Is it perfect? No, am I leaving a little bit of time on the table? I am Yeah, I don't have the best foot strike on my left foot as I could, but it's better than what was going to happen if I didn't deal with it.
I [00:29:00] had insertional Achilles tendinopathy, and that was because of, people probably know what tendinopathy is chronic inflammation of a tendon. And it gets bad if it goes over, intersects. Goes around a bone and if it has a any kind of friction like it band friction syndrome things like that So tendons muscles don't like that crap.
So I have an enlargement on the back of my left heel It's called your calcaneus bone. That's the big bony part of the back of your heel

Chris Detzel: It was

Rachel: mildly overgrown and some of that's from a pretty compensatory from a bad injury. I had when I was 10 to my whole ankle I never knew how bad it was until I had the mri to my heel But like a whole bunch of ligaments and stuff got torn up And you can see like where there's a little bit of fluid deposit and my navicular bone blah blah blah anywho so it just That with the genetic maybe the bone is just slightly bigger on that side and then the tendinopathy and irritating it.
[00:30:00] So You know not respecting rest breaks or whatever I was doing wrong. That tender got inflamed So literally friction syndrome we're going like this Yeah, so there's going to be calcification On the bone and then the tendons moving around. So it enlarges the bone. And people are trying to talk me out of the surgery, like cause there's a lot of PT you can do that for.
I'm like my guys, you can't PT your way out of bone growth. It's there. It's bone. So I had to, I had to go through a list of my fourth surgeon was the one I finally let cut. For anyone who has any specialized medical care that they need, don't be afraid to ask questions. And if they cut you short, so to speak I'm sorry, I'll never mind.
If they don't want to listen to your queries. Yeah, he's you offer any other option and you just want to go right to cutting get another opinion and don't be afraid to do that, a

Chris Detzel: hundred percent.

Rachel: And, my said party of three, like just go to three different automatic, just schedule them out, whether it's your shoulder, your hip, I don't know, three and make sure there's consensus.
[00:31:00] I didn't have consensus, so I cut on the fourth, but. I wanted somebody that wouldn't take my tendon completely off and reshape it. And it's like this old country boy that works up at like Denison and Anna's where it's too often. Yeah, it was awesome. My aunt, unrelated aunt goes in there for plantar fasciitis and she tells them, My story and I'm going through hell because this will the surgery that they want to do it probably maimed me like I'll be able to walk again but I won't be running very well and it was told to me Fort Wright that's what could happen and this old boy is hey Let me see that foot bringer.
I have a friend in college had that and I've sent people up to him because of my experience. Cause he's laid back. He knows the ramifications of surgery, the best of circumstances. So he looked at the foot. He's I think I can get in there without taking your tendon off. I would love that.
Can we do that? Because I told him the surgeries, I told him the three different ones. And I believe you, me, I go to PubMed, I go to other countries and I'm like here in 2009, this was, [00:32:00] Scandinavian country say that, if there is not significant tending tears, you can't just take the tendon off and do what's called debreeding it, which means strip it of its decayed,
Tendon and reattach it.
Cause you know, the problem with cutting the tendon like that is if you do, it's like a rope, you have all the pieces of a rope and you fray it. You have all those pieces sticking out. Yeah, if you frayed it and you're screwed and you have to do your best case and that Galen Rupp had that surgery where it was complete, take it off, rebuild it, put it back on.
But think of all the strains of a rope you try to put back together. It's not going to go back the way it was. I was very fortunate, but the rehab was long. It was six months and there were some things obviously I wish I could do again with the rehab that I'm paying for kind of in a way, but it's not as strong as I'd want it to be, but it's stable.
And I can pretty much run, I would say almost more of a limiting factors, 12 hour shifts, five to five than my surgery. So

Chris Detzel: You're doing 12 hour shifts that work. Okay. Got it.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. [00:33:00] So for the nurses and
Chris Detzel: stuff like that, yeah,
Rachel: a little bit it's physical when it needs to be physical, which is sometimes unfortunate or it's just a lot of tire changes because there's something in the road that people run over stuff but it's generally a very sedentary job.
I'm a patrol sergeant technically on paper. But we're a small agency, so you can't just kick back and go, Okay, youngins, go out there and do the thing that the big chiefs want, and I'll make sure you do it right, and read your reports.
Chris Detzel: Yeah, you have to do some work,
Rachel: yeah, exactly and I have a policy of never ever ask someone to do something that you're not willing to do yourself.
Chris Detzel: Yeah,
Rachel: so I use that both in my coaching and in my work like that's awesome. I trained
Chris Detzel: Yeah, I love that. And so let's talk a little bit about that. Is that you're now coaching How did you get into that? And what you know because you're actually With Sandy, I forgot her last name you have to tell me and then Sage Kennedy How did all that happen?
Oh,
Rachel: that's a dream. Oh my goodness. Yeah And and her twin is also rachel goes by ray. She's one of the coaches. [00:34:00] But yeah sandy and sage met many years ago and they formed a relationship and a partnership and a business together and three years ago almost to the day Not quite to the day but like The work adversaries I call it was about unfortunate coincided when their condominium burned to the ground, because that's when I was doing a little project.
Yeah, it was no one got hurt or killed in that and that thing was leveled, even with admirable firefighting from boulders finest, they didn't, they weren't able to really save the structure but. More importantly, no one perished. So I was already coaching on my own. Some of the local runners Bless me with the opportunity to tinker and try things out.
Yeah with them. And they're like at a cheap rate basically So I was like, let me try some things because i'm like i've been coaching cyclists since 2007 2008

Chris Detzel: so you knew how to you had a philosophy and some things already. Yeah, exactly

Rachel: periodization and other blah blah blah terms You But thanks

Chris Detzel: for sharing all the terms,

Rachel: but programming recovery.
[00:35:00] I'm sorry.

Chris Detzel: I said, I'm not that smart, but yeah,

Rachel: I, I only say I do it on a practical level. I don't have an exercise physiology degree or anything, but I learned from the people that do and try to implement it and you can get it just by experience. And like I said, trial run with this group of runners that will be basically like, can I.
Can I play with you? So it went pretty well, like I just had to learn how to like program recovery and stuff like that different than cycling there's a whole lot of considerations, but a lot of stuff also carries over.

Chris Detzel: Yeah

Rachel: So I did that for several years and then on a whim just because like I love my job my primary breadwinning one That is of course, but it has been wrought with a lot of frustration You And it's not fully been the career I want it to be, and it still does not.
Really hold that in the cards for me. But but sometimes you just have to suck it up and do the honorable thing and keep trudging ahead. But to balance the, yeah, but to balance the mental health part of that to try to give me something else to [00:36:00] also, look at or hold on to. Yeah, I just want to win emailed.
Instagram message rather, sandy I believe it was and she messaged back I said hey, I like running and I like coaching and I like you guys Because I was guessing that they're like they are like what On the instagram reels when they're having fun They're walking around running in a trail or making little gag reels that they do like especially sage They're like that They're really they're that's them.

Chris Detzel: That's their personality.

Rachel: That is their personality. And somehow she saw my message. We messaged back and forth, explained a little bit of who I am. And more importantly, why I want to do what I do. I didn't perfect to know everything. That's no one knows everything. You always, it's a craft trade.
Always student of learning. So we talked a bit and then she gave me a scenario, like a, to write a training plan for. A decent like sub elite runner, but then they put a couple little scenarios in there of Relative energy and division in sport, but not spell it out that way I needed to look in between Some hidden messages and figure it out and then deal with the athlete that way [00:37:00] and then a full blown injury Kind of how do you program?
How do you deal with stuff like that?

Chris Detzel: Yeah, and

Rachel: then then they you know Turned it in basically it's like an assignment and they looked it over, you know You And then we chatted, and then they took me on board. That's great. And the rest is history. Yeah, that was a cheek pinching moment for me. They're celebrities to me.
In the running world, they are. You're very well known in

Chris Detzel: the running community, for sure. I'd say trail running, for sure. Yeah, definitely on the trail side. He's done a lot of, he's done a little bit of both. Olympic trials and all that stuff.

Rachel: I think it was right place, right time. Yeah. Yeah. They are trail forward, but that's how my spot came up, but I think it was just, I was also fortunate at the right place at the right time because they were getting an influx of people wanting like dedicated marathon road training, essentially marathons, half marathons, stuff like that.
And they can't coach everybody that dons their doors, so to speak through messages and stuff. And there are only so many and they have to run a business. So that's where I came in.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty cool. What so [00:38:00] you're now or you've been a coach, you work with them and do you have a lot of athletes in the dallas footwork area or is it pretty much just all over?
Because I mean I do virtual i'm sure

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. No, I can say I boast people on multiple continents. It ups and flows. Yeah. Yeah, of course yeah but yeah, I have Oregon California. I have a couple tied on top of my head. Yeah, I definitely have some in Texas in Dallas. And then, yeah, I have a good handful in Dallas actually, kind of thing off the top of my head.
But as far as the United States go, and oh, of course, Colorado.

Chris Detzel: It's pretty much all over. That's so interesting. I had you as a coach. You were my coach for about five or six months and then I got injured and I was like, man, I can't do this. But you helped me. You're from the coach. Thanks. It was, I think your training plans are great.
And you're very willing to work with the athlete and you worked with me. Especially when I started getting injured, I just trying to figure out ways to alleviate that. But, at the end of the day, I looked back and it was just really rest is what that needed because I had a Achilles I forget what you call it, but something [00:39:00] like that.
I was talking to the doctor and he's look, just going to, you're just going to have to deal with it and or stop running for a while for it to stop hurting. And that's what I did.

Rachel: Yeah, you don't want to mess with Achilles.

Chris Detzel: Why don't we mess with it? You would know.

Rachel: No, I'm glad you did. I was always sad when anyone has to walk away.
Cause I'm like, Hey, we can cross train it. But yeah, for your situation, it's multiple months that you needed to attend to it. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And I did. And but I would say that my, you as my coach was, I really had a great experience just because, like I said, it was, you're easy to work with and you would change the plan if needed.
I didn't change it too much, but I did the work for the six months and I saw a huge Look, I'm going to go back because before, so I ran this half marathon before I ran this half marathon. I sent you a message. I was like Rachel I don't know if you're taking coaches or taking clients or not But I would like you know to hire you to do that if you're still taking yeah let's talk and we did and and you said what's one of your goals and one of my goals was [00:40:00] to hit under a 130 before I was 50 right and I was 48 at the time something like that and so that was like a week before Half marathon that I was going to race and then I run this half marathon In utah, I was a downhill and I hit a 128 something and I was like, holy shit I was like you know now my goal is 125, so you just

Rachel: Oh my gosh,

Chris Detzel: but yeah, so but you really helped me to stay.
Really focused because I then ran the houston half, injured in between that but still got you know I think 132 back in january, which was really good and slightly surprising because I lay off some of the work that we were trying to do. Yeah, you I mean what the plans that you put in place if you just do the work It's gonna it's just it's gonna work.
It's just gonna work like you're gonna hit your goals So I appreciated that And you did the work too.
Rachel: So that's what I appreciate all the athletes It's been

Chris Detzel: a long time. I worked that hard at running by the way you know the one thing that I believe about coaching is that like you'll put together this plan for [00:41:00] me and I feel obligated Which I should.
No, I should. Look, I'm paying you money to be my coach. But I also feel obligated to do the work because you're putting that together. And that's the expectation is I'm coaching you to do this. You know what I mean? I'm not saying, look, things happen. But I want it. But that's what I wanted, right?
Because now it's gosh, I gotta tell you, I didn't do it. Or I didn't feel like doing it. I don't really have that. Choice anymore because That's because i'm paying for it because you actually spend time Putting that together, right? Because for me I can go around 20 25 miles every week, it's fine Maybe there's some speed work.
I'll do a winch theory or whatever, but I believe that coaches can really help you not with just the The plan which is an important part to get to the thing that you want to get to but also just from a Hey, I Obligation is probably not the right word. But just hey, she's doing this for me yes, i'm paying her there's some [00:42:00] kind of thing there that says You do this i'll do this, And I think that accountability is really the word.
I was like see I forget words, but Accountability is the key and that really helped me it wasn't somewhat motivating but more accountable to the plan and to the person that's trying to coach me because Next time I have a conversation with you Chris, and you're looking at all my stats.
If I did the plan or not, it's not like you didn't know.

Rachel: Come on. Where's that watch upload. Let me see it. Yeah,

Chris Detzel: of course. I'm just automatically up. That's what I appreciated about coaching, is that. It helped me to stay more accountable. So I know I got off on a tangent, but no, I'm glad you
Rachel: described that because that's what it what, why do, why, instead of getting a a training plan, Or

Chris Detzel: some other bullshit.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Rachel: An AI plan, which has their place. But when you want the human element, you just described all the reasons why you want that coach. It's like I can adjust on the fly still probably better than AI can do.

Chris Detzel: Sure,

Rachel: but there's the human element like [00:43:00] When I was coaching you, I gave a shit about you as a human being.
And surely in every one of my athletes I don't care what you want to do, it has to be somewhat realistic, but it doesn't have to be that realistic, just somewhat, but as long as you're healthy and happy, that's all that's required from my end on whatever else it's it's your journey and you've asked me to come along and guide you along some of it.
Give you your training plans, whatever the case may be, but it has to always be seen in that bigger. Bigger light because everyone's why it's so much different, that's right Exactly

Chris Detzel: Talked about earlier think about it. Like we're not elite athletes. We don't do this for a living So we do this to stay healthy to maybe compete because we like to compete or whatever You know, I think that at the end of the day the reason I keep doing it is because I want to be healthy As long as possible right and running allows me to do that You know, I always say, if you want to be a cyclist or you want to lift [00:44:00] weights or you know Do a little bit of cardio running isn't The thing you should have to go do but it is for me like I love it because the community because the way it makes me feel and look and A lot of other things, and it helps me with work my real life Like if i'm not running I get tired and let's say depressed but you know out down and out sometimes, But if i'm still running and doing things, you know that motivates me and pushes me through My job, and just life, and it's taken me to a lot of different places.
Anyway, that's a list

Rachel: Oh, what do you know? That's I love that. I love because that hits me on the head really for multiple reasons I don't have time. It's some maybe occasionally Yeah, you have a day where it's just okay the kids the job and everything's going wrong You're the wife's sick or the husband's sick or whatever the case may be So yeah, you'll periodically have times where you can't but it's not a bad thing to invest in yourself a bit You know if you can't love yourself and exercise movement, whatever activity you want it to be It's a privilege to be able to [00:45:00] move the way I say it's a quadriplegic sure would love to complain about running You know what?
I get there is a perspective there to a degree but something that's cool about you is you're quick when you want to be like, I mean you Knuckle down and you do the training plan, a one 32 in Houston. It's a very formidable performance and you could get up and go like some of those shorter intervals you'd crank sometimes even sub six pace for some of that stuff.
And then, and then yeah. You backed off for a little bit of it, but even the last number of years of running, you have a lot of experience yourself, but you are also that. Other half of the equation of what other people want you run a robust facebook group You answer a ton of questions.
You have a wonderful website of resources for coaching for group runs. So not only do You know do the running for yourself But there are hundreds and hundreds of eyes on you in a most positive way and you bring people together to this basically Marketplace of whatever you want to do. Hey, I want to run walk.
I want coaches, you know [00:46:00] Because there's a ton of good coaches out there. Just in the dfw area alone. That are all, as I think there's been a post where someone says, Hey I'm looking for a coach and then all these recommended names come through and of course I'll comment on it.
But I was like, try to keep it in the big picture of Hey, welcome. We're all here to help you

Chris Detzel: at

Rachel: the end of the day, like everyone's, there's good people and you're in a lot of the center of that, of facilitating that.

Chris Detzel: I appreciate that. And, the way I think about that today is that, when you think of that DFW running group, the Facebook group, that's, people have questions about running and sometimes you get the same questions over and over, then I started capturing the answers to those questions and pushing them out to the website so that, one, people are searching for it on Google and stuff like that.
And then it gives a resource to that DFW running group so that they can, have access to that. And then the other piece of that is I started this podcast. So I've have podcasts. I've done podcasting for five years. And so not [00:47:00] running podcasts, but like a data podcast. I build online communities from ground up for work, and so I had a, I would talk to other community managers that did the same thing I did for a long time. And I thought, I have this. Running group that we talk to coaches or, people want coaches, people want to know, where to run, who to run with, all these things over and over.
And I thought, I've got this great website, it's great, community, but wow. What, how cool would it be if I start talking to these people, not just runners in the community, but coaches in the community, maybe dietitians or whatever, and bring them to life. And I think podcast is, we'll do video audio.
People can listen to it in any way, but it provides additional content. But it also brings in I don't know what you talked about was more of that human element this community, right? It's not just a bunch of questions and answers and somebody just popping away on the keyboard or whatever I don't know exactly the way I think about it.

Rachel: No, exactly. It boils down to it's like Commonality and someone caring about somebody else

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I think so. I mean we could all look back and [00:48:00] think when we first started running What you know, what questions did we have? Like I was telling somebody the other day You know, I would go out and just run and thinking that Every run has to be just as fast as the other run or faster Can I pr you know, I just ran six miles.
Oh my god. I'm excited. I did that in 55 minutes Can I get it under 55 tomorrow? Yeah, you know that Yeah, no, that's not how you're supposed to do it. But I didn't know, you

Rachel: know, exactly, but it's that's so funny you say that because it's like almost everyone's start to running and then let's just say they have 10 or 15 years layoff and they remember Yeah, because that's a pretty predominant high school or younger ages too.
And you can get away with it because my god, balls. Exactly. Just bounce back. But like someone who hasn't run forever, somebody that's, needing to quote unquote, get back in shape. And I said, do not be ashamed of a run walk program. They think, okay, I'm going to go out and run for 20 minutes and I'm like, that's not going to go well.
What do you mean? It's not going to go well. You're going to stop five minutes into that and your shins are going to be throbbing. Yeah. Because you haven't run since you were 15 and you're [00:49:00] 35. Yeah. Stop it.

Chris Detzel: Or 40 or whatever.

Rachel: Exactly. Exactly. And I said, just give it a couple weeks. Be patient. I swear this will.
Make it doable for you. Walk one, run one minute, walk one minute, run, walk, and then, build that out. Then, do your 20 minutes that way. And I know it's not flashy, but It gets you. I

Chris Detzel: love that. As a matter of fact, when I first started running again at 37, that's when I was overweight and stuff. I was like, you know what?
I want to go run a mile every day for the next five days. And I'm going to allow myself to walk, run, whatever I want to do at the first four days. And then I want to jog the whole mile on Friday. Fast, but what it did was gives me some, then the next week I was like, maybe I'll do that again, or maybe I'll move it up to a mile and a half or whatever.
And I think progression is the key obviously to distance running or to running in general. And, let's be honest, like running for the next, For your first 30 or 40 60 days is going to be a beating [00:50:00] It's just hard but then over time when you do it you start feeling good Like you start looking at yourself You start feeling confident about how you look and how you feel and you know All these things that I think for me that has brought, you know For the longest time it was more about weight that just didn't want to be overweight, but now it's become a lifestyle I just yeah Do it because you want to run Yeah, I love it.
I don't love the day to day grind. Honestly, I don't I really don't love that but I love it afterwards

Rachel: Yeah, exactly I'm

Chris Detzel: human, I think we all are of course.

Rachel: Oh,

Chris Detzel: yeah struggle We gotta go run six miles. That sucks. Or, let's see if I can get three and go from there, or whatever.
Exactly.

Rachel: Just get out the door, warm up, and see where you're at. That's right. I've said that before with the workout. When someone's maybe a little bit tired. Exhaustion, no. We're gonna cut, just, that's a day off. There's a difference between tired and exhaustion. A hundred percent. But if you're tired, that's a day off.
It's just go through the warmup and do the [00:51:00] first rep, see where you're at. And then usually it's fine from there. It's just that get out the door and that usually people get on with it But it's funny where you're like, oh god, it's gonna take so long to get back in shape or then You know, maybe a 30, 60, 90 days down the road and then you're like, crap, I'm not that fast, but then another thing coach can do is like remind you of the big picture because maybe you're looking right here and only, here, but then the coach has the whole thing, 100 percent outside perspective, it's You know someone I think someone was asking once again about well, I can't always you know I'm always stuck running and walking.
I said you've just started and I said I have A lady I coach who could run one minute at 10 30 pace Should walk and that's that's the start point. I was like, okay. We know what it is. Sounds good. And It's not that long when you think about it, but six months later, she did a 30 minute tempo at her one minute walk pace Yeah

Chris Detzel: That's awesome.
That's

Rachel: a significant change in ability. And it's don't write that off. That is [00:52:00] like how much over, you could say that is an improvement, but that's what patience will give you.
Chris Detzel: People think about times as oh, i'm not that fast. It's not really to me. It's not really about how fast you are It's just about just being consistent at it and you'll get faster now There's always somebody faster than you always So the reality is like I think when I first started running and don't take this personal But I thought you know, I should be faster than all women period I was absolutely wrong.
It's not the reality, there's men and women or whatever way faster than me and that was, I think that sometimes we put too much focus on the speed, and we shouldn't do that necessarily. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to get better if you don't want to.
If you wanna go from a 10 30 to eight or whatever, absolutely. Do that progression to do it. That, I think that's, to compare yourself to somebody else is just, I don't think is the right thing to think about.

Rachel: No, you need to train for your purposes and needs. There's nothing wrong with being competitive in a race.
It's healthy to have a little bit of [00:53:00] competition or whatever, of course. But then at end it's what it is. It's just a moment in a time. Guy or a girl, but yeah, ultimately you have to be solid and why you're doing it and paces began compared to somebody else

Chris Detzel: Rachel. It's been good. We actually went past an hour.
That's okay. Pretty crazy, huh?

Rachel: Pretty crazy Hopefully someone listens and goes does she say any coherent thoughts?

Chris Detzel: You said a lot of coherent thoughts and I think that Runners are going to learn a ton from you and already have and I think you're an inspiration to the running community and I appreciate what you're doing and look forward to seeing what Continues on

Rachel: oh, a heartfelt.
Thank you very much for that.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, of course Thank you everyone for tuning in to another dfw running talk Please rate and review us all the ratings and reviews are really good Once I send this over to rachel i'm going to make her do it or at least push her to do it as well So thank you everyone for coming and rachel.
Thank you so much for your time.

Rachel: Absolutely. Thank you. Chris.

Chris Detzel: Take care. [00:54:00]

Rachel: Bye