First Marathon, Sub-3:10 Finish: How Ski Bum Kevin Hebert Shocked Everyone (Including Himself)

DFW Running Talk: Kevin Hebert
===

Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, so let's get started.

Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel and we have our special guest, Kevin Hebert. Kevin, how's it going man? I'm

Kevin Hebert: doing well. How are

Chris Detzel: you? I might keep that part in there just to show that I mess up sometimes,

Kevin Hebert: all good. You're not the only one that says that way.

Chris Detzel: I'm sure like usually I'll ask, but I thought I had this one in the, I was like, I got this.

Yeah, all good. Didn't all good, you, I met probably. I don't know, eight years ago. Seven. It's been a while, hasn't it? Maybe six.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. Like probably around 20 14, 20 15. Oh, it hasn't been that long timeframe. Yeah. Maybe 10 years. Yeah,

Chris Detzel: I remember. It feels like it hasn't been too long.

Like I knew who you were, but we actually started running together a little bit during a one 40 half kind of group. Is that right? Or was it one 30? That's right.

Kevin Hebert: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think we did one 30. Yeah. That was a couple years ago.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And we just kinda hung [00:01:00] out sometimes. It's just you and me.

Yeah. Yeah, get to know you a little bit. And then, and you were doing a lot of half, I say a lot. You've done several half marathons in the past. I think even back then you and I were talking about marathons and stuff and you are like, yeah, I'm not really sure I'm gonna do one or whatever.

Yeah. So what recent, you ran your first marathon back in December. We'll talk about that. Pretty impressively. And you did something this weekend. But before we get to that, let's talk a little bit about you and when you started running and why.

Kevin Hebert: Okay. I really started running in, gosh, it was probably around 2010.

I didn't run in high school and I tried to avoid running in high school. Did you do played basketball.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Kevin Hebert: So it was always punishment. Okay. I wasn't a good basketball player, but it was punishment and small school, right? So everyone gets to play everything. It's me know, went to little funny to show how much I didn't like running.

Our coach had us like, y'all are going to run with cross country in the off season. And I didn't even know what cross country was. I didn't know what that meant. [00:02:00] But we'd run after school, like on the road in front of the school. It was pretty long. There was a donut shop at one end at the far end. The other way was just a stop sign and school had let out and.

We'd start our cross country workout. So I'd drop, jump in the back of someone's pickup truck. They'd drive me to the end of the road by the donut shop. I'd get out, they'd drive home, and then I'd walk back. I just wouldn't run. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Why are we doing this?

Chris Detzel: That's funny. But you'd walk back so two hours later you're home.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, exactly. But but no, and, 2010, I met my now wife. I was living in Colorado and

Chris Detzel: remember this dude, I remember your wife. Yeah. I used to run with her. She's a

Kevin Hebert: runner. She's a runner, yes. Yeah, she,

Chris Detzel: I

Kevin Hebert: think I knew her before New Year she, for me. That's right.

Chris Detzel: Okay. That's right.

Kevin Hebert: Got it. So we met in 2010.

I was not running at all. I hadn't ran since like college and in college again, punishment. I went to Texas a and m. I was in the core cadets and we ran three times a week and then all kinds of, punitive PT we called it. So [00:03:00] yeah, all kind of pushups, sit-ups, everything just to make you uncomfortable, yeah. But that's good for you. Oh yeah, it was. I didn't bother me. I never, running, never bothered me. I just didn't like doing it yeah.

Chris Detzel: Not just as, Hey, I'm gonna go out and do a run.

Kevin Hebert: No, I would, that would not be something I would say

Chris Detzel: a lot of people are like that, even today.

Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Even, I'm hitting 30 to 40 miles a week and sometimes like I don't really feel like it, like God. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. I don't really, I remember you and I would talk about, and we'll get back to your journey, but we talk a lot

Kevin Hebert: about, yeah. On

Chris Detzel: Saturdays you'd go home, watch the a and m game and drink a lot, so Sundays might not be out.

Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: Smoke a brisket. Yeah, smoke

Chris Detzel: a, yeah,

Kevin Hebert: we talked about that.

Yeah but we, my wife, she was a runner, so we met and I think like the weekend after we met, she was running a marathon. I didn't, I'm like, wow, okay, that's cool. I don't, I didn't appreciate it 'cause I didn't.

Really know what that meant. Were you married at the

Chris Detzel: time?

Kevin Hebert: Hard work? No, I just met like I just met so

Chris Detzel: You're dating an athlete. That's good. Yeah,

Kevin Hebert: absolutely. I always thought that's good, right?

Chris Detzel: Like

Kevin Hebert: my wife is an athlete. Yeah, that's [00:04:00] right. It is. It is very good, active and be active together, which gets me to where my first like real race came from.

We met and we met in October and that spring they have in Denver, the running of the green, it's a seven K. They call it like the world's largest seven k. It's very well put on race. It's right there in downtown Denver. And so I went and run that. She's do you wanna run this? I was like, sure, I'll run that.

And, she's all trained up for marathons and I'm like, I'm gonna beat her. I'm gonna go out there and I can run and this and that. And she kicked my butt, and in a seven K. Yeah, it, killed me. '

Chris Detzel: cause you weren't training at all, right? Like you had

Kevin Hebert: zero training. I. I was not running one bit.

I'd ski a lot, but I wasn't running and I was living at 10,000 feet, so I was, pretty well acclimated to altitude.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. So you had a chance to beat her. Skiing is, I guess skiing's not really a And it doesn't, it's different. Yeah. It doesn't, it's different. You're in shape,

Kevin Hebert: Like that.

Yeah. It's different. Different type of shape, yeah. If you were cycling and skiing, go together Okay. With quads, got it. But but not running. No. So then that summer came around [00:05:00] and, we're still dating. And she's Hey, there's this race I love to do every year in Vail.

It's called the Vail Hill Climb. Would you like, would you wanna come when I come there? Because I was living in Breckenridge, she was living in Denver. And she's would you wanna do that? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not?

Chris Detzel: Yeah,

Kevin Hebert: I'll do that. And I'm like, I don't know what it is. And she's it's seven and a half miles, and you run start in Lion's Head Village and Vail, and you run up to the top of the gondola.

I'm like, okay, no, that sucks. That's fine. Like again, it doesn't really register with me how terrible that is. And that's straight up a hill. Yeah, you a mountain. Just zigzag up the cat tracks. It's, I thought I was gonna lie that I. I may have been last person to finish that. And I didn't think I was gonna make it to the top.

Remind you of your track

Chris Detzel: or your cross country days in high school.

Kevin Hebert: Exactly. I'm walking this, just ducked off in the trees and taking a nap. Yeah, so I get to the top. You're so dumb. Dude. That was the dumbest thing. It's terrible. You know what we do for love? Yeah. Yeah we do.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: I ran up a mountain and so yeah, it's seven and a half miles, 2,500 feet elevation gain.

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Kevin Hebert: And I get to the top [00:06:00] and the first thing she says to me is are you gonna break up with me? And I'm just like, no, but I'm never doing this again. But if you do this again to

Chris Detzel: me,

Kevin Hebert: no. Yeah, I'll never do this race again. I've not done it again.

Chris Detzel: I won't need I'll do some of those. 2,500 feet of gain is pretty good amount.

Now there is that one miler in Colorado that you go up the stairs in not Boulder, but what's that? Colorado Springs? Yeah. Manatee Springs. And one mile is what is it, 2000 feet a game? Something like that. Mile, probably.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. I've not been to that spot. I've driven by it and you can see it in the side.

It's crazy of the mountain there and it's I can't believe that's what that is. Done

Chris Detzel: it twice. It took me an hour, like 56 minutes.

Kevin Hebert: Not really. And I was in

Chris Detzel: good shape.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: And I'm like, oh man, this was rough. Because the first half is good, ish. You're feeling pretty good. But then it gets harder and hard even upstairs, yeah, I'd say so. So it's a

Kevin Hebert: lot of stairs.

Chris Detzel: So you run this seven K or the seven miler and die, but

Kevin Hebert: yeah, running is generous. Yeah. A lot of walking.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I'm sure.

Kevin Hebert: [00:07:00] Yeah. But but we did that and then the next time I ran after that was the next St. Patrick's Day, the running of the green for the second time.

So this is my third run in two years. Okay. And we did that and, it's in Colorado. Yeah, that's the one in downtown Denver again. So I haven't moved to Dallas yet. No. Still there. And that time, this is a

Chris Detzel: DFW podcast, so just

Kevin Hebert: hope I know. That was getting all ready,

Chris Detzel: okay.

Kevin Hebert: But yeah, so we ended up moving down here and and moved down here in around 2011.

And, okay. 2012 timeframe. And my wife, Brooke, she joined the Dallas Running Club and she did it for a couple seasons and I went out and did like a 5K, what was it? The Trinity River Levy Run? Yes.

Chris Detzel: Yep. That

Kevin Hebert: 5K. And and after that she was like, you should join DRC. I think you'd really like this.

And she's I think it'd be fun. You should join. So I was like, okay, I'll do it, are y'all married then, signed up or? No, we were just had just gotten married, I think. Okay. Just before that we got married in 2013. I ended up signing up, I think [00:08:00] 2014 was my first, that's when I season

Chris Detzel: with DRCI think that's mine too.

2013 maybe is when I started actually. Yep. And, up. So why'd you move to Dallas job or something?

Kevin Hebert: Yeah work type related stuff. I was a ski bum in Colorado, so I wasn't really working hard, so I was enjoying life. Do you miss it? Yeah. We go back skiing a lot, so I don't miss making 400 bucks, and trying to figure out how to live for a month.

No,

Chris Detzel: especially there in Colorado.

Kevin Hebert: No, it was, it depended on how much I skied. If it snowed a lot, I didn't make any money. Ate a lot of very poor, cheap, cheapest food I could find. But now you get a real job

Chris Detzel: all. Sorry. Sorry, we digress a little bit. All good. But that's what happens when you run together.

You talk about that kind of stuff, absolutely. That's what we're doing. We're

Kevin Hebert: running Kelly. That's right. That, but yeah, 2014 signed up for DRC. We were in the same running group. We joined we signed up for the one 40 half marathon group. And I'm trying to remember who Pace Leader was. I think it was Josh Connors, if you remember him.

Yeah,

Chris Detzel: I do. [00:09:00]

Kevin Hebert: I was in the full group Pace Leader. You were in full group? Yeah. Overachiever. I was then, now I've learned my lessons. But it was fun, I enjoyed it. Didn't know anybody, just knew my wife and, got to obviously start meeting some people and through that you start doing the little runs on the training plan.

And I was. I was having fun. I was running twice a week. I do the Tuesday DRC Run, which was the workout, and Saturday, and I do the Saturday long run. Seems

Chris Detzel: like Saturdays get pretty tough once you had to do that 12 miler and if you're not doing the Yeah, those

Kevin Hebert: were big accomplishments, so it was that was just what I was in, I was in, I was having fun and I wasn't looking to do too much more than that.

I was enjoying, I could do the runs, and so the first real half marathon training run was that. The DRC half is part of the training plan, but the actual race is the whatever, the Dallas half, right? Yeah. Or DRC half. Yeah. DRC half. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's fine. It was one of those two.

Yeah. Yeah. But I remember doing that first half [00:10:00] marathon and. Again, we're in the one 40 group, so you know, the goal is to run a one 40. So 7 38 I went out and yeah. So I went and ran better than that, which I was super excited. First one you did. Yeah. You don't know what's gonna happen, I, yeah.

Ran a 1, 1 39, so Nice. Hit the goal. And my favorite thing about it was at the end of the race, they had free hamburgers. Yeah. In-N-Out was there with a truck and they had, I remember that one. Yeah. Animal style. And I was like, man, running is awesome. Yeah, this is great. You get hamburgers afterwards, shoot, man, it was great.

But no, it was a great experience really enjoyed that and was looking forward to, the next was the Dallas half, which basically like a month later. Do you like beer, by the way? I do like beer.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I was gonna say, there's this 5K that was this last weekend called Velvet Hammer, 5K and Love Velvet Hammer.

Yeah, it was at that the one, the place. I forgot the place, but you know there's COIs. Yeah. Yeah. They, we ran it there and there was, [00:11:00] I don't know, 400 people there. You get three beers. And I brought my son and so he didn't get those beers right. So I had to give him somebody else. So they got three.

You got his beers? Yeah. Yeah. I did not, I drank half a beer, man, 'cause I had to drive home. But was sand those five Ks. There's this one called it's put on by Micena. It's in Dallas. It's in Dallas, and they have all these drinks afterwards. You run a 5K. Yeah. And then you just go down downtown Dallas and you drink a bunch, like it's, that's awesome.

It's crazy. Yeah, like I'm starting to get into this lately,

Kevin Hebert: yeah. The social aspect of it is a lot of the draw of running. Yeah. That's right. We all work hard and stuff, but it's fun to see people and. Mix and mingle.

Chris Detzel: All so you ran that first and you did quite well.

Actually, I think my best is one. My first was a 1 47.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, it's, but I wasn't, I was just

Chris Detzel: training myself.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. No, I never, I'm not a self trainer person. I like the structure. I. I like the structure, but think it

Chris Detzel: helps

Kevin Hebert: for sure.

Chris Detzel: And running with people is obviously gonna get you better,

Kevin Hebert: yeah. Makes a big difference.

Big

Chris Detzel: difference. So you ran that and then [00:12:00] you decided, hey, I'm gonna keep doing this.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. No, I enjoyed it and I stuck with DRC for a few years. I think I stuck with them through all the way through 2018, so four straight years. I think those first two kind of training blocks. I signed up every training block.

So I do spring, fall, and then I do summer fast track.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: And I think after a couple training blocks, then, I volunteered and started PACE leading and you did, I did that. Huh? What'd you pace lead? Yeah, I did it, I did half, it was all half stuff, so I did 1 35 and one 30. Okay. It was most of what I did and I did it like so many seasons in a row.

They like gave me a jacket.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Yeah. I got a jacket as well. I didn't know you, when we, when I first got there, I was PACE leading or not first, but eventually I started pace them full. And I'm like, eventually I was like, man I'm tired of running full marathons.

Like it's not really, I get mad at every run, because I'm running 20 miles or something and I'm like, always pissed. And my wife goes, why do you run marathons then if you're always mad? You don't have to. I was like, yeah, that's a good, [00:13:00] I never did again.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, you should enjoy this.

Enjoy this. That was

Chris Detzel: back in 2014 or 15. Variet is the last time I ran a marathon.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, no, it's. It's different. I'll tell you that running a marathon, it's very different. Yeah, so go ahead. Yeah, that whole time, that whole stint there, if we say 2014 through 2018, I pretty much stuck to my guns and just running twice a week.

I ran twice a week. That's all I did. That's good enough. That was good enough. That's what I was there for, I could do the runs, avoid it. I wasn't real big in just on doing races. I just liked training and running, with people. It was a hobby, right?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. So you're not a big, are you a big racer now?

Are you like, like him better or?

Kevin Hebert: I like him 'cause I'm, I'm putting a lot more time into it now, so it's interesting to see. One of my running buddies, Dave, David Clem, you probably know him. He used to always say respect. He was a DRC guy. He ran one 30 with us, did full stuff.

And he'd say just, honor your training. You go put all this work in under your training go out and try and do it, and go do a race and see where you are. And so I like that. And I like that, that I [00:14:00] really like that quote. That's,

Chris Detzel: yeah. Why do you do, why do you do it?

None of us are gonna be, for the most part, professionals. I know some very fast people, and I think you too, in the DFW area, for the most part though. They might be called elite, but they're not doing it for a living.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. Nobody is really right. No, everyone has a job, it seems so.

Not that I know of. It's not running. Yeah. I love to talk

Chris Detzel: to him if.

Kevin Hebert: Or how can we do that? How can we make money off this? But yeah, exactly. It's that basically that first half training was, I was just in a little bit different mode. Again, just enjoying the time, at that time.

I'm never gonna run a full, I'll don't say never about anything but this, I'll say never, I will never run a full Yeah, totally sure. Went through all that. Had a great time, had a lot of great people. And then, took a break. We started having, we had started having kids. We had two kids after, 2017 we had two kids, young kids, and, so 2019 start, took off running.

I just focused on work. Obviously COVID 2020 came. I was not running during that at all. And then 'cause run with people. [00:15:00] Yeah, I mean that, it probably would've been a good time to start. It sounds, you have all this free time and no commutes and all that, but. I started getting the itch again and, every now and again I'd go out for a run, just Hey, I'm gonna get back into this.

I told you. And it never really stuck, I'd go out and do a few runs here and there, and then finally got to the point where I was like, okay I'm getting back into this. I'm going to do this. I really want to do this. So I think it was, I started back I was gonna run by myself, my schedule's all different with kids and trying to balance that, and that's just part of it.

So I was like, I'm gonna do this by myself and I'm gonna give this a real go. Do a real half marathon training, run more than two days a week.

And so the first time ever.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: And,

Chris Detzel: Sorry, before, before we get there what'd you do before? What was your best time and a half before? That 20, 23 time.

Do you remember? Yes.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, it was rock when rock and roll was still around.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: I think that was in, I don't know. I got my notes here. That was the rock and roll in 2018. Okay. Yeah. I [00:16:00] ran 1 36. Okay. 1 36 at Rock and Roll. I was like, man, that's, it was like a redemption thing. I had a lower leg injury the year before doing rock and roll and so I kinda limped in and was just like targeted that for the next year and stuff happens.

Kept running and Yeah. Totally. And so that was my pr. Okay. 36. There was my fastest time. I think some out of town races I think were more, were better races for me, even though the time wasn't faster, but go run grand Teton half. I did that. In Jackson, Wyoming. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, so that was really fun.

We that like, as a whole family thing with my wife and all of her family, we all went and ran into together. Did she run too?

Chris Detzel: Okay.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, she ran that one that was in June and she ran that one after having given birth to our first son. In January. So she ran a half marathon, six months after giving birth and at altitude.

So that was pretty amazing. I bet that was hard for her. Yeah, that, an altitude period would change things, exactly. But she killed it. It was awesome. I've had a,

Chris Detzel: And you, I don't know if you've [00:17:00] listened to 'em, but a few women on that. Really, I've had a couple of kids and all, and it's tough, right?

Your mindset changes a little bit and and so you just wonder if you can do it again. And so it's really good that you get out there to do that. So That's

Kevin Hebert: awesome. That's, we don't do anything hard. That's that whole thing going through what they go through, which we don't fully understand.

Oh yeah, of course. So much respect. So much respect. So we had it easy. I'm glad

Chris Detzel: I don't have to go through it.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah.

I don't pain, so I can't imagine. Yeah, that's way tougher than I am. So digress. But

Chris Detzel: no,

Kevin Hebert: but yeah, but most of my stuff that 20, 20 18 timeframe, everything kind of falls around the same, they're all right at one 40, just under one 40 half marathons.

They're all like, I. 20 one's minute, five Ks, like it's just as much as I, I could get running twice a week.

Chris Detzel: So let's think about that before we get it. Like you are just half ass and running. That's really all you were doing. And you're killing sometimes just doing half ass running.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. And it, I really enjoyed it,

Chris Detzel: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's fine. Yeah. That's how you want to do it [00:18:00] and, but you're, it shows your talent is just off the chart. So we'll hear about that in a minute, I'm sure. So you actually start training, we'll

Kevin Hebert: see. So actually start training. I paid I stay a member of DRC even though I don't run with them anymore.

But I, I pay keep up dues. And this in 2020 three I signed up for 'em. I was like, I paid for the training plan is basically what I did. So I signed up for a half training. So they send me the training plan. So I just ran it by myself, exclusively by myself. Okay. And my goal was just to finish the training plan.

Like I signed up for the Dallas half, but my goal was just to do the training plan. So I got the one not to do the Dallas half. If I made it there, I was trying to do milestones here. One step one was run and got it. Then step two was run, four or five times a week, and step three was finish the training.

Step four was run the half.

Chris Detzel: I feel like you have a. Thinking for races or something.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, I was motivated. I was motivated. So my, my coming back to running was the breakfast Bash, [00:19:00] the DRC breakfast Bash. You get the, I do free tacos at the end yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. So I

Kevin Hebert: did that in April of 23 and went out and, had just, I did good.

I did better than I thought I would. What'd you do? Was super excited. That's a, it's a five mile racer in a 34 21, I was super excited. Wait,

Chris Detzel: okay.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I just ran that race not too long ago, I feel like. Yeah, I think I saw you there. Yeah. Yeah, I think I did. And I was, over the last year or two, you're always fit, but I.

You're really looking fit. And we'll get into different that in a minute. It's been, you've, I don't wanna say conformed your body, but you've really changed a little bit, like it's

Kevin Hebert: obvious

Chris Detzel: to me.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, no it's been different. All the extra miles is, has really been different.

Gotta do it. But so I get to the end of that 2023 training block and we were in the middle of remodeling our house and it was like, we need to finish the house, or I need where I can finish my training and do the half marathon. And I was like, man, really need to finish this house remodel. So I quit running two [00:20:00] weeks before the Dallas half and I did the remodel, but I did that with the plan of, you know what, I've done pretty good.

I've made it this far. I'm gonna put this down right now and I'm gonna come right back to it after this, and I'm gonna do the next half marathon training block. So I did sign back up for another one. Wait, you

Chris Detzel: skipped

Kevin Hebert: the half marathon. Yeah, I didn't run it. Yeah, you could've just, dude, two weeks isn't that much.

Fair enough that it's true. Yeah, it's true. You still could've done that and did I was. I know, but I wanted to focus. I wanted it to be right. I didn't wanna go do the race and not have put everything into it. It wasn't working, but it's just another race,

Chris Detzel: Like it was,

Kevin Hebert: come on.

All

Chris Detzel: right, Kevin, you're frustrated me already. Dude, it's just, but that's not how your mind works, no, it's

Kevin Hebert: not. It's not. Okay.

Chris Detzel: It's interesting. So I meet all kinds of people and I didn't, I guess I just didn't know that about you. Like you're like, I wanna put it all out there before I do. It's all or nothing.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. Okay. All right, so I got back in, didn't sign up for DRC half training again, right after that. This time I was, I did not all by myself. This is when you and I ran together. I was able to, I came a few Saturdays, [00:21:00] yeah. And probably that I probably came three or four Saturdays, but did the rest of it by myself.

I was run, ran, I ran the entire plan, everything that was on that training plan I ran. So I went back, did Breakfast Bash was on the docket again, as part of the training plan. Yeah. So I got to do that again and got a pr, beat my time, which was awesome. And then what'd get, I'm gonna ask you, dude, like

Chris Detzel: that's,

Kevin Hebert: we're on the podcast to get Yeah, that's fine.

It's 30, that was a 33 18. So a little bit better than the year before. And and then with DRC races, it's pretty fun because, you go get a decent time and you can win stuff. Yeah. I got second and masters for that race, which I was like, man, this is awesome. How old are you coming back now or then how old are you now? I'm 46. Okay. I'm still older. So you're still older A little bit. So did that and then the big race at the end of that training block was the Tal Morrison. Yeah. And man, couldn't have had worse weather.

Chris Detzel: Pretty hot.

Kevin Hebert: So it was warm, humid.

I think it was like 25 mile an hour winds. Now this is exactly a [00:22:00] year ago. That's awesome. Yeah, it was terrible. I remember

Chris Detzel: that.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, it was horrible. So how did do it? But I went and my old friend David Clem, I remembered hearing him say, honor your training. Exactly. Don't be stupid and show up and try and.

Do some crazy pace with warm, humid, high winds. But I did, I was gonna honor my training. That's all right. And that's what I was like, this is what I came here to do. I came here to run a one 30 and I'm gonna run a one 30. The first six miles were perfect. Yeah. And then it was over.

I thought I was gonna die. No nutrition. Yeah. 'cause you're running six forties and Okay. No nutrition. Yeah. I've never, maybe some of those half marathons I'd done in the past. I maybe had some jelly beans, but I never ate anything, like half just, it wasn't, didn't really at that speed, do you need to really start

Chris Detzel: thinking about nutrition,

Kevin Hebert: yeah. Before probably need to

Chris Detzel: anyways, but

Kevin Hebert: Yeah,

Chris Detzel: totally. So

Kevin Hebert: did you not ever run, like whenever you were running the miles, you never did the hadn't. I didn't, not until I started full stuff. [00:23:00] But but finish that finished with a 1 37 and almost a pr I was, I was super bummed just because I was so far off of one 30, but I didn't realize it that whole second half of that race, I kept just waiting for the shame of all these people passing me, hey, there's that guy that was out real fast and then I'm gonna pass him.

Chris Detzel: We all do this. And

Kevin Hebert: No one caught me. Like the whole next, whatever that was mileage wise, six, seven more miles, no one caught me. I finished the race and then I come to find out I, I got first in my age group.

Perfect. And that's the thing about bad weather is everybody suffers. That's right. You're not the only one. So it totally flipped, I was like, man, that's awesome. I can't believe I did that. Like that was. Great. That was awesome. Great. You actually turned, was happy to finish, turned it into a positive.

Yeah, I was happy to finish, so I didn't know if I'd finish or not. I really didn't.

Chris Detzel: Did you come out like with a pos like the next day or two? Were you happy with that and then yeah. Okay. So you weren't like Yeah. Down upon yourself 'cause you didn't hit

Kevin Hebert: the one 30. No, I was actually quite the opposite.

I came out really freaking [00:24:00] motivated where I finished that race, 'cause I finished the training, right? That was goal one, finished the training, and goal two was to go do the half. I finished that and I'm like, you know what? I just did that whole training plan top to bottom for a one 30 training plan.

I was like, I think I wanna run a full. And see what, where this goes. I don't wanna stop now, I wanna build on this. I

Chris Detzel: feel like it's it's interesting because back in 2018 you were running the same time with just two days. So I'm glad that you somehow got motivated and said, Hey, I ran a 1 37 this time.

I ran the one 30 plan. I didn't get close. Now didn't, no, I didn't get close.

I really didn't. But that, weather and, you're. Definitely a one 30. There's a lot or below, so

Kevin Hebert: yeah, no, I, I had confidence in my ability at that time. The only thing I had going against me was I just hadn't been running very long.

Yeah. Like running is a long game and building your aerobic system is a super long game. I'm still a, as I heard on a podcast, like I'm still a toddler here, with my aerobic systems. But no, I was like, okay, I'm, I wanna run a full, right. So that was my goal. And then I made a [00:25:00] goal of.

If I'm gonna run a full, let's make a actual goal of what I'm gonna train for. That training was I'm gonna run and I'm gonna qualify for Boston in my first. Marathon. That was my goal. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: I, I already know where this is going, but 'cause I already know the story, but, things I tell people all the time is generally you won't make Boston your first time.

I'm not saying there's not people that don't. Yeah. It's an ambitious goal and maybe you should have that goal, but also you should think about, in my opinion, hey look, like you said, running is a long game. You've never run a marathon. So you really have no idea how you're gonna do nothing ever.

Yeah. You just don't know. Yeah. Like you run a 1 37 and a half and it's decent, but it's not even close to where you want to be and weather things like that. You don't, you can't control the weather, you don't know what your body's gonna react to. Yeah. Be ambitious.

I'm not saying you shouldn't, but. Also be realistic that it might take a few times to do it. But anyways,

Kevin Hebert: let's Absolutely. Yeah, no, I'd ran with a lot of people Yeah. That had used that and I knew it was a [00:26:00] huge goal. Like this goal was bigger than me and bigger than what I thought I could do.

But I just thought it would be a good motivator. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. I needed to be dedicated and I was gonna. Every once training stuff started, I was gonna be running longer distances than I've ever ran. Every run was like, yeah. Oh, that's new. Distance pr, new pr, Hey, a new distance.

Pr hey, a new distance, pr You know what your, what was the time you had to hit, do you remember? Three 20 was the the Boston qualifier when I started my training

Chris Detzel: And now it went down to three 15?

Kevin Hebert: It did, yeah. It actually went down to three 15 a couple months before my first marathon. So I'm sure that was a motivation.

That was a little bit of a gut punch to see that, but no and really you

Chris Detzel: need to do three or four minutes below that probably.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. You have to figure it out, but but yeah so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go from running this half distance maxing out at. I think I maxed out at 35 miles during my training plan for half

Chris Detzel: decent.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, it was, I think a good, I think the DRC plans are good. Yeah. They do a good job. They do. And so I was like, okay, so I have the summer. [00:27:00] Oh, and I met some people that ran fools at that time, and I like met 'em like twice. I ran with 'em like two times and Nick Polito was one of 'em who I still run with, ran with these people like twice, and they're like, yeah, we're gonna go run CIM.

And I'm like, oh yeah, that sounds good. I'll sign up for that. So I sign up for CIM and I hadn't even, I think we all know Nick, by the way. Yeah, it is. That guy's amazing. He's, he is a staple in the, in our community and man, that guy can put down some miles. He's done a lot.

Chris Detzel: He's always putting down miles, 250 miles a week or a month.

That's unbelievable.

Yeah,

Kevin Hebert: always.

Chris Detzel: He's a machine.

Kevin Hebert: I just knew that going into that summer, here I am, I've signed up for a. Marathon. And I need to start figuring out how I'm gonna build miles. I need to get my body ready to be able to do a marathon training. So I started in that summer, just, I'm gonna run just this summer.

I'm gonna run with these guys. Yeah. Nick Polito and Andy who's been on your podcast they run a lot with the co-op and so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna pretty much just [00:28:00] gonna lay run with this. The co-op. Yeah. And, I was just, I'm just gonna run miles.

And so I would just, I didn't have a plan. I think that's smart. I just went and whatever They're running, I'm running less summertime, right?

Chris Detzel: Running

Kevin Hebert: 15 miles. I'm running 15 miles, they're running 20 miles. I'm running 20 miles. So I did that summer. Learned what your body things

Chris Detzel: was it really?

Kevin Hebert: The runs were fine.

I, I had a couple lessons learned through there getting started. One was electrolytes 'cause again, this was all unchartered waters for me. I got like vertigo after one of my like 18 mile runs. Early on that summer I woke up in bed and the room started spinning and I was like super dizzy and didn't have good balance and realized it was electro.

Yeah. It just needs electrolytes.

Yeah. Makes sense. And so that learned that the hard way. Hey kids, take your electro lights, geez, while you're running it in the summer, he'll be all right. Sounds like a good idea. Salt tablets, if some people like that. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot out there. I've learned.

So did the summer with them and sometime through there I got a coach. Okay. And smart. Smart, again, [00:29:00] smart. David Clem who I ran with the DRC, he's Hey, I know a guy. I think you'd like him. Let put you in contact with him. And I'm like, okay. Sounds good. He shares me contact for my coach.

Now we end up working together. Greg Rankin. Yeah, I love Greg. He reaches out to me and we, he interviews me, I interview him type of thing, see if we're gonna be a fit. And that worked out. So he took me on and continued on with that, just running miles in the summer. And then in the summer, then the training started, and again, I'm like, I don't know what this is gonna be like, but I'm super excited.

Every day when I went to bed, I was excited to wake up and run. I could not, did you ask him

Chris Detzel: about like nutrition or anything like that? Or was it more of, hey, here's your miles. Because he's he can help with that too, probably.

Kevin Hebert: I totally, yeah. Okay. I know I did. I asked him all kinds of, and all those guys.

That was the, these guys I was running with, Nick and Andy and a lot of these other folks from the court, they've ran like 30, 40 marathons. It's, Nick's probably ran like 30 ultra races, like it's just. Yeah, it's off the charts. And I'm [00:30:00] just starting, that's nothing better than the

Chris Detzel: community, to That's right.

Kevin Hebert: Get that. Yeah, that's right. And that's what I wanted. It is the same as DRC when I started. I'm running with people that have been running with DRC for several years. You just pick up, that's how you learn, mistakes and from other people. I

Chris Detzel: love that you got a coach for your first marathon.

That's a rare, but you're pretty focused. I like that.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. I knew that majority of my miles are gonna be running by myself. Yeah, makes sense. Monday through Friday and Sunday I was running by myself and then I was able to get the Saturday runs with them. So I was going to the Saturday runs, but, yeah, so started the marathon training and learned about, gels. I started taking gels, that previous summer, just, nutrition, right? Yeah. You gotta get yourself right and sleep good diet, all those things are all part of the trifecta of being successful here.

So I'm pretty methodical with all that. So also when I started that training block I'd ran with someone one time and they told me they quit caffeine. I was like, man, that sounds really stupid. Like why? Why would you do that? I would never do that,

Chris Detzel: but yeah,

Kevin Hebert: that sounds terrible. Especially just they like [00:31:00] coffee.

Yeah. I love. Me too. Most people do. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, absolutely. That'd be very hard thing to

Chris Detzel: quit.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. I did. He told me better sleep, lower anxiety. I was like, man, that sounds, what else do you need to say? Who doesn't want that? So feel I quit. Feel you're doing

Chris Detzel: all this running and that helps lower anxiety.

I can have my coffee in the morning. It does, but I'm not gonna I'm already tired, like I can sleep just fine after. Yeah. Doing 20 miles in a day. Yeah. Anyways, go ahead. Yeah, I love it, man. That's pretty cool that you did some of this stuff.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. And it helps with hydration, not drinking coffee.

Or caffeine per se. So anyways. Yeah. Are you still off coffee? Yeah. You are? Yeah, over a year. It's been over a year. That's too bad one.

Chris Detzel: I was gonna ask if you wanna go get a coffee.

Kevin Hebert: Alright. Keep going. Yeah. It's pretty boring life these days. No coffee. Rarely any alcohol. What.

Chris Detzel: Are

Kevin Hebert: you serious?

Wow. It's cut back a lot. Yeah. Oh my God.

Chris Detzel: This running thing is really, taking over. You've taken too serious, yeah,

Kevin Hebert: I agree. I'm not the person I used to be.

Chris Detzel: That's probably a good thing, i'm sure your wife doesn't hate [00:32:00] that. I don't know. You'd have to tell me.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, no, I think it's good on off fronts.

Chris Detzel: Good, good.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. So you go to this training block? Yeah, so start the training block and one of the things for me, like starting it, is if I'm doing any of the runs, if Greg told me to go run through White Rock Lake, I'm gonna go try and run through the lake, right? I don't know just prescribe me and I'll run it.

And but when we started just feeling things out, I was doing these different runs and, doing quality workouts on, Tuesdays and, maybe something else on Thursday a little bit. But I just asked Greg, I was like, man, these paces, like these are just, you're giving me these paces based on what you know I wanna do.

Which at this point I'd set like a time goal for myself, which you probably, I don't know if you should do that or not, but. Three 20 Boston qualifier time. I made up a time of three 12. My goal is to run a three 12 in my first marathon, and that was only just 'cause of the buffer. I've heard everyone talk about the buffer.

This sounds like a good buffer. Again, I have no idea if I can make a completely made up number, like 100% made up number. That's, I think

Chris Detzel: that's the number that you'd probably want ahead if [00:33:00] you wanted to hit Boston.

Kevin Hebert: Yes. But as far as actually thinking I can make, that is a different story.

Yeah. We're just gonna do the training.

Chris Detzel: To me, what I said about, true boss, like trying to qualify your first, but you have the ability that was obvious, so I like it. I don't hate that. Yeah. Nice. Good.

Kevin Hebert: So it was good, gave me a target and but started the training stuff with Greg and I asked him like, I'm fine.

All this stuff you're telling me to run, is awesome. I, I feel good, I like the workouts, but I just wanna make sure. When I'm doing these workouts, the paces I'm running, I wanna make sure I'm running paces that are fully benefiting me. I don't wanna go run too fast, I don't wanna go do something too fast.

'cause that's what the goal thing is. I wanna build and make sure we're, I'm doing this, getting the most outta these runs. And he said, absolutely. And this is right when we were about to start the training block and he said, let's go do a two mile time trial. And I was like. That sounds awesome. I Google it 'cause I don't know what that means, just run your

Chris Detzel: fastest two miles is what he said.

Go

Kevin Hebert: run your fastest. That's it. What Google, that's what Google told. That's what Google said. So [00:34:00] yeah. Chad t nowadays or whatever. So smart. So smart. So I did that and then he's okay, now I can dial this in and and we'll get started, so what did you run? So it was a good, do you remember?

Yeah, I wrote a down, I ran 12. 32. Damn. Damn.

Chris Detzel: That's fast. Dude.

Kevin Hebert: That's really fast. I wanted to do good. Yeah, it was like

Chris Detzel: Pace or something. Two mile. Good. No, if you could just do that for the marathon. I know. It's so easy. These marathons. Cutting pace.

Kevin Hebert: It's just like a two mile time trial.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. You have a lot of talent dude.

There's no doubt.

Kevin Hebert: Part of that was again, just running what he told me to run. Whatever he told me to run, I'd run it. Enjoyed all of it, looked forward to it. Felt good. Didn't have a whole lot of hiccups with nutrition or, recovery or anything like that. Everything really. He built a great plan. And I trust him.

So

It really worked well during that. And I know you'll like this. During the training, there was a couple or one race that we were going to do, [00:35:00] my wife and I and her sister and her sister's husband. We went and did a trail race. Yeah. I love the trails. And this was during my training and I've never done, this was my first trail race, and it was in Aspen.

I think it told me that's called Aspen Golden Leaf.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. So it's a half marathon. You run from Snowmass to Aspen. And that, that's interesting. That's interesting. Did you like it, it sounds like? No, I didn't like it. I like it. It's a lot harder, huh? Yeah. Yeah, it's super hard. It's ridiculous.

Super technical. Yeah. Seal track, I'm there to do a race. I'm gonna do my best. Yeah, of course. Okay. I'm not going there. Did you fall at all? Yes, I did fall. Headfirst slide, like down a washout, like downhill. My Garmin like wants to call emergency services and That's great. He probably needed it.

Yes. Scraped up my side, it's

Chris Detzel: messed up your marathon training.

Kevin Hebert: What am I doing? Rolled my ankles like eight times. Yeah. Just, but I, I tried really [00:36:00] hard. I was super proud of myself and was able to do that, that's cool. But I don't wanna do that again.

Chris Detzel: Maybe you do something a little smaller.

It just kinda, I. Yeah. Whatever. Just get yourself in. Don't go all out on a trail that you never heard of or been to.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. Or done even a run on a trail, yeah, exactly. My first run on a trail practice a

Chris Detzel: little just like you're doing the

Kevin Hebert: marathon. Yeah. But roads are good. I like roads put a lot easier.

Yeah. There's some Dallas roads that are like trails yeah, for sure. Potholes. Yeah. But did that and then so getting close to the end of the training block in the Dallas Turkey Trott, it was in November, my marathon was in December. Perfect time. And and so I, I've gone through this whole training block and I hadn't really done any road races.

I know I have all this fitness, like I feel so strong as a runner. My heart rate started going down, early in that training block. 'cause I ran all summer and so I knew my fitness was good anywhere it had never been before,

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Kevin Hebert: So we go, my wife and I, we go do the Turkey trot and I was doing the [00:37:00] 5K and I was just like, I don't even know what to run.

Like what? I don't even know what pace to go run. And I hadn't done a 5K in years. And Greg and I talk, he's start out at this. If you feel good, then speed up. I'm like. Sounds good. So went and started out, coach could tell you exactly

Chris Detzel: what to do.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, ran the first mile. I was like, I feel pretty damn good.

I'm gonna pick it up. Picked up the second mile, felt even better and picked up even faster, the third mile and I'll be, damn. I got first in my age group at the Dallas Turkey Trott, and I'm like, I can you on? I can't believe that is 1846. Damn. You're. PR before that was like, 21, 22 or 21, minutes, but, which was a long time ago, but that was just like, wow, that was cool That I liked.

Good. I'm sure that felt really good.

Chris Detzel: Not to ran outta prayed, but a lot of the sloth guys came out this last weekend and ran that velvet hammer five KI think it was like 1603 and 1640, stuff like that. But [00:38:00] anyways,

Kevin Hebert: those guys are amazing.

Chris Detzel: Most of 'em are pretty young or, yeah, younger. Yeah, maybe early.

There's some guys in their early forties, so

Kevin Hebert: yeah, I got a lot of respect for them. I was wondering what the oldest person in the sloths was. I was like, maybe someday I can be the oldest person. If you

Chris Detzel: went there now, you probably would be right, because maybe Brent is 40.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, he just turned 40.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. I don't know.

Kevin Hebert: He's ruined a, ruined all my master's dreams at these DRC races. If he shows up now. Yeah, for sure that's true. Yeah. Knock me down a notch there. But that's all

Chris Detzel: right. You still have a chance. He's not usually at all of those races, right? So he

Kevin Hebert: can't go to every race, right?

No, just a lot. But,

Chris Detzel: But

Kevin Hebert: yeah. But but yeah, so then after that, you know nothing but confidence in CIM. Just, and the fact of I know I'm in good shape. I've done everything, get through my taper. And then we head out to Sacramento to do a CIM. I, when I signed up, there was like three other people I think that were gonna be going none [00:39:00] of them ended up going to this race.

I ended up going, just my wife and I went, she didn't run. And but that was my, I was there by myself, basically. Yeah, he got hurt before that. But again, I was like, I'm, you're here. I'm here to go do what I'm came to do and I'm in good shape and figure this out. But really leading up to it, the biggest like anxiety is I don't even, one, I've not ran 26 miles, two, I've never ran 26 miles at this pace that I'm trying to run it at.

I. So that unknown is like no other feeling I'd had in some time. So that was pretty interesting. So going into that race, getting to the start line, just super excited, and got with Greg before the race. He told me, let's start here and then. Build from there, and I'm like, okay, that sounds good.

So those first couple miles, I had all my race plan. I talked to everybody beforehand, so I had all my nutrition plan, everything, but just learning from all the people I've been running with now I want to go into this as smart as possible. So started the race exactly at the pace, as Greg and I [00:40:00] talked about.

I got through those first couple miles. Because it's like a pretty sharp downhill at the first. He is hold it back and then from here, take it from there. And I think my pace to do the three 12 was like a seven 15 pace, I think. Something like that. And I start doing this run and I'm just like clicking off like seven twelves and I'm not like laboring.

I feel good. But all I knew was people have told me about this thing called the wall. And I'm like, yeah, all 19

Chris Detzel: or 20. Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: I'm scared to death. I'm like, man, I don't wanna feel like I'm dying, do

Chris Detzel: the nutrition,

Kevin Hebert: all these things, and so the whole time I'm running, all I kept telling myself was slow down.

I'd look at my watch. I'm at seven 10, slow down, slow, back down, slow, back down. And so I do that get all the way to 18, 16, 18, and I'm like, I don't feel anything different. I feel great. Just keep going. I get to like 24, 23, 24. I was like, man, just close this thing out now. Go, yeah, maybe pick it up.

Let's pick it up. A couple seconds later I was like, you know what? Don't pick it up. Just you've already got this in the bag. Just finish. [00:41:00] Just finish. You're already beating three 12 and I finished that race 3 0 8. Damn. 58. Dang. Sorry.

Chris Detzel: You have kids. Sorry.

Kevin Hebert: All good. That's

Chris Detzel: awesome, dude. Wow.

Your first marathon at 3 0 8.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, I wept. I was, I cried. I couldn't believe, I wanna cry for

Chris Detzel: you right now, dude. I couldn't believe it. You're so like, you changed everything. Your mindset. You changed your diet, you changed the way you run. Everything changed about you, like you're. I think you're a different man than I knew you.

Yeah. I don't even know who you are. That's different now. Like this is, yeah. It's pretty awesome though. I love it, dude. Yeah. The focus that you did, the sky's the limit. All right. So I know we don't have a ton of time, but you ran that marathon, that's. Awesome dude. And you cried a little bit and you're like, Hey, I wanna do this again.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. And I wanted to do it again immediately because I wanted to see what I could do. And so I talked to Greg and he's what do you think about Eugene? And I was like, I don't know anything about Eugene, but I'll look it up. I looked it up and asked my wife if she'd want to go as well.

She said, [00:42:00] yeah.

Chris Detzel: Awesome. So we

Kevin Hebert: signed up for Eugene. So did is not a super quick turnaround, from December and then to into April.

Chris Detzel: You gave yourself, a few months.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah went right back into training. Great training block. Really enjoyed it. Again, super motivated. That's awesome. Made a new goal for that one.

To me. My new goal was a sub three. It felt different. Very different. Very different.

Chris Detzel: That's, it sounds like you had a lot left from that first marathon and you were a little bit like, oh my gosh, I gotta do better than that. And, yeah. And bringing that goal. I think a sub three is certainly doable for you.

There's no doubt.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. But again, trying to make some huge goal, big goal out there. Do I really think I could do a sub three? Probably not, but you know what? I'm gonna put the training in You can. And give it a go. So at a great training block, I went out there, it couldn't have been more perfect weather.

The most perfect weather. It was 40 degrees at the start. The high before the race was even gonna end was gonna be like 50. No wind. Dude, it was [00:43:00] perfect. Get to the start line. My training plan or my running plan with Greg, we talked about, it was like, okay, start right behind the start with the three hour group just behind them after the first couple miles.

Just work your way in front of the three hour group and then stay at that pace just ahead of them. And once you get past 13, then I want you to start chasing the 2 55 group and just go off of how you feel. So it's neg negative split and push the second half, right? Yeah.

Chris Detzel: Yep.

Kevin Hebert: So my pace overall, average pace for this is 6 51.

And so I get on the start line, I'm there with the three hour group and the race starts and I look down and I'm not with the three hour group. They're like ahead of me already, like within the first mile. And I look at my watch and I'm running like 6 42. Okay. Yeah, they're going

Chris Detzel: too fast.

Kevin Hebert: I'm like, what in the world is going on?

I'm supposed to be running with this three hour group and this guy's, they're running away with it, so I get through my first mile split, I think it was 6 43, get to my second mile too fast, split fast, 6 45. And I'm like, what is going on? Like, where is this three hour group? I'm never gonna [00:44:00] catch these guys.

So I'm like, okay, I'm letting them go and I'm gonna do my own race. Okay, good. I back off to six, my 6 51 I started clocking off 6 51, 6 53. Paces and the first half of Eugene is hilly. The second half is like a downhill, and then it finishes with a couple miles uphill.

Okay, that's tough. So yeah, it is. Yeah. I did, I felt really good like aerobically and the first half, the first 13 miles, but I had this lower leg thing. Flaring up like right between your calf and your ankle. You ever got that? I get it every now and again with like real hard heel workouts, I can get like it, it flares up.

But that starts happening to me in this first half of this race and I'm like, man, don't do this right now. Because I'm thinking I got a long way to go,

Chris Detzel: Yeah. Get 13 more miles to go.

Kevin Hebert: I got a long way to go. So I get through that and it's just really painful. I notice I'm limping, yeah. I'm like, easy to make choices this time you're tired and you have this [00:45:00] pain. It's I'm gonna back off, and I freaking pulled the plug on the three hour dream and slowed down just 'cause I wanted my leg to stop hurting and I wanted to finish the race. Yeah. And you kinda have plan B, plan C type things, yeah. Kept plugging away, dropped my pace back, I was probably running I don't even know, seven, at this point. And, i'm like stopping at the side drinking water. I think I actually went to the bathroom one time. I'm like, I'm just gonna enjoy the rest of this race. Yeah. And nothing wrong with that.

And just enjoy it. And got all the way to the finish. I was able to push, at the end and finished 30, 33 seconds off my CIM just behind it. So I basically ran the same race just very differently. And man, I stopped running after crossing that finish line. I could barely walk.

I was like, my leg hurt so bad. I was like, holy cow. The hill's kind of got to you, it sounds like,

Chris Detzel: the

Kevin Hebert: up and downs. Oh yeah, probably. Totally. And I've listened to a couple of I listen to all your podcasts. I was listening to Jill Wolf.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: It just came out [00:46:00] today and Yeah. Yeah. I was on it quick.

But hearing, hearing her talk about, it's about the second half of the race and, she's gonna go out and she's gonna push and give it all, that's part of this experience I learned that I'm gonna take from Eugene is, I don't know. That I couldn't have kept running at a fast pace.

Greg had told me before the race, you're gonna hurt in the second half of this race, but you're gonna hurt whether you run slow down or you're gonna hurt whether you keep your pace. And I believe him in that. I was just probably more scared to try it.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Kevin Hebert: That's a, that's alright idea.

I'm gonna take that experience and go forward. My second marathon, I gotta get some experience here. So I,

Chris Detzel: to me, fair enough, you're gonna learn. But still excellent. It shows that you still have easily that 3 0 8 piece, so That's pretty awesome.

Kevin Hebert: A very different course. Cims a way easier course than that.

Yeah, it's very different. Very different. And yeah, it's a different, very different

Chris Detzel: races. Exactly. So go back to CIM and see how you do

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. Or whatever. I'd love

Chris Detzel: to.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah, but I'm excited, like to think that when I [00:47:00] started this journey, it's like, hey, I just, I wanna qualify for Boston, my first marathon, and being able to do that.

And then here I am running my second marathon and I, I qualify again, the, and that was the thing I left out like before CIM, two months before my race, they dropped the qualifier to three 15 for 2026. And here I am, I've ran two marathons and I've eclipsed that with, five minute and a six minute buffer.

Freaking awesome is I'm just so proud. I'm so proud.

Chris Detzel: I'm proud of you, man. I'm so proud of you. Like I'm so pumped. And I will see you in Boston next year. I won't be you. Yeah, Leo will, but I'll be cheering you guys on. I'm

Kevin Hebert: excited. I'm so excited. So I look forward, if they, if the buffer doesn't get more than six minutes and two seconds or however that works, I'll be there.

If not, I'll find another race. It's, i'll do something else, but I'm gonna keep running and, that's my plan. Maybe a Houston marathon but my real next goal race is gonna be Boston. So this summer, take it easy. I just keep miles up and keep working at that and enjoying running [00:48:00] with people and looking forward to doing more of that.

That's so enjoyable. There's so many people out there. I've ran with White Rock Running co-op a bunch. I've been to several Pegasus runs. I mixed in some Pegasus runs this past training block.

Chris Detzel: I was thinking about doing that running more with the co-op on Saturdays, but then maybe even running with the PE group every so often.

I talked to 'em, so I might as well run with him. Yeah. So

Kevin Hebert: yeah, absolutely. No, a lot of good people I enjoyed running with them. I did a long run with Jill, actually. That was the first time I'd met her on like a, I don't even know what it was, like a 22 or 22 mile run or something, again, I was just trying to find, I didn't, I knew nobody at that. Training group, but they're super cool, super welcoming, and at the end of it, you just gotta, you gotta run, right? Let's just

Chris Detzel: go run with some people that are welcoming. You don't wanna go somewhere that's, you're a pretty serious dude too, or at least from a training standpoint, you sounds like you got pretty darn serious.

I love that.

Kevin Hebert: Yeah. No, it's been good. It's been a good mileage build, back from those half days of 35 mile training block. Peak week, you know this [00:49:00] Eugene training block I peaked at 70 and so that's most of it for me. I going into this, I was like, can my body hold up? And so far it has. So

Chris Detzel: that's awesome.

Congratulations. Did, is there questions I probably should have asked and I didn't? I feel like I could just keep going on actually.

Kevin Hebert: I don't think so. I don't think so. Just happy to be here and. Keep going. Hey

Chris Detzel: man, I really appreciate you getting on and telling us your story and it's motivating to me and it's really cool to see you get serious and really try to look at what your potential is.

'cause you're not even close, dude. Not even close. You're just starting. So you know, if you play it smart as sounds like you are, you got a coach that's helping you he's great. He's gonna be on this podcast at some point, him and his son, so it should be fun. So I love it, dude. Wow, that's awesome.

That's pretty cool. I appreciate it. Great story inspiring and almost want, wants to make me get back in the marathon, I'm gonna pass, but the coffee thing come, it, come

Kevin Hebert: on

Chris Detzel: the coffee thing gets to me a little bit, but Kevin, thanks so much for getting on. Really do appreciate it.

Thank you everyone for tuning in to [00:50:00] another DFW Running Talk. Don't forget to rate and review us. We do have a newsletter. Please subscribe. DFW running talk.substack.com. We do have Instagram and Facebook and all of those things. Just look it up, search it, DFW Running Talk. Thanks everyone for tuning in.

Kevin, thanks so much for telling us your

Kevin Hebert: story. You bet. Appreciate you. All right.