The Sub-2:40 Club: DFW's Fastest Marathoners Talk Boston & London

DFW Running Talk: Boston and London Marathon with the Sloths
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Welcome to DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel. So let's get started.

Welcome to another DFW Running Talk. I'm Chris Detzel, and oh my gosh, you guys are in for a treat today. We literally have six people on this call today and we're gonna be talking to Everyone about the boston marathon coming up and then also the london marathon coming up One or two people are doing one or the other so today we have brent woodall brent.

How are you? I'm doing good chris Thanks for having me on again. Hi, you're welcome. Thanks for coming back Matt Barron. Matt, how are you? Hey Chris, great to be on. Good to have you. We have Aaron, what is your last name? Because you didn't put that in the thing. Yes. Mystery.

Aaron: Aaron Pearson. And way above average.

Nice to be here.

Chris Detzel: All right. That's awesome. Eric Bretl. Eric, how are you?

Eric Bretl: Yep, you got it. Doing well.

Chris Detzel: All right. Jennifer Pope again. How are you? Welcome back.

Jennifer Pope: Thank you. Glad to be here again.

Chris Detzel: Great Mimi Smith. Welcome back. How are you? [00:01:00] All right. Here we are You know really what I wanted to do today was these local DFW runners are Really fast and they're going for some amazing times You know a Boston Marathon and London Marathon And so I wanted to talk to them about their journey on how they got to Boston their goal times They're training and all kinds of things.

And so really what we'll do is we'll go around the room today and talk to each one of them. I say room. It's this virtual room. So let's start. Brent's actually first. Sorry, Matt, but he's who I see first and that's who's going to go first. Let's start with introductions, share your name, your goal in Boston, or London if you're doing that, and which marathon performance qualified you for this race.

Brent Woodle: Brett. Alright, so I qualified in Lincoln, Nebraska last year, almost a year ago in May. I ran 228. That was one of my better marathons. It was a really good training cycle. And I'm not going to be quite that fast in Boston this year, I don't think. But I'll be trying to [00:02:00] run the 5k on Saturday and then the marathon on Monday.

I'm hoping for a time around, I don't know. PR in the 5k is the goal. So like 15, 20, give or take, and then turn around and run the marathon and 2. 32 or 2. 33 would be perfect for me.

Chris Detzel: That sounds awesome. And how many Bostons have you run before, Brent?

Brent Woodle: So I actually looked it up before this podcast. I've run it five times before, but like I've never run it when I'm in peak condition.

Like a lot of the times Boston is just a fun trip with friends and family. And so all five times I've run it have been between 2. Which, I'm happy with those times, but they're not like peak performances for me.

Chris Detzel: At Boston sometimes it's hard. I'll be running the 5k, not as fast as you, but I love the 5k.

But there's 10, 000 runners in it, and you have elite runners just in the 5k. It's pretty insane. Matt!

Matt Barron: Let's

Chris Detzel: go to you, Matt

Matt Barron: Barron. Yeah I I'm running Boston for the second time. My first time running Boston I qualified when it was a 3, 3. 05. time [00:03:00] cut off in my and I ended up running a 2 48. So my back half was a two hour and 12 minutes.

So I'm hoping to go better this time around. I'm hoping to do a 2 40 sub 2 40. So in the two thirties and I qualified for Boston this time in the Houston Marathon last year with a 2 38 and change. Houston's a lot of

Chris Detzel: fun. My wife and I love that race. So I'm sure most people here have done it either half full or whatever.

So Thanks for that, Matt. Aaron. Aaron Pearson. Now I can see your last name.

Aaron: There we go. Yes. Put it in this way. This is my, this will be my third Boston and hopefully Yeah. Better than the other two. They've gotten progressively better, which is nice. But yeah, I didn't know how to run it 10:00 AM so it was a, yeah, that's rough.

A little bit of an issue there. And then I ran a Chicago in 2023. That qualified me I think it was a two 40 for that one.

Chris Detzel: And what's your goal for this one?

Aaron: I would love to run 2 30, 4 59.

Chris Detzel: Nice. I was gonna call this the. 235ers, [00:04:00] but I hear some goals of 240. So we'll just keep it close to that.

It's fast as hell. So that's awesome. What else do you want to add, Aaron? Have you run the 5k there and what were your best time at Boston?

Aaron: Best, best time at Boston was 247 and no, not doing a 5k. I'm bringing the family. It's it is I just, yeah, I lugged them around everywhere. So I'll be busy probably Saturday.

Chris Detzel: You don't sit there and rest or just

Aaron: that's advised. I would do that. I think that you should do that. I I do not.

Eric Bretl: All

Chris Detzel: right,

Eric Bretl: Let's go to Eric Bretl. Eric, how are you? Perfect. I'm doing well. So this will actually be my first Boston Marathon. So I'm excited for that. That's awesome.

Qualified at Cowtown last year was the qualifying race. I ran a 2 41 52. So for some of us, I'm a 2 41 guy. Some of us think I'm a 2 42 guy, depending on which way you're on, but that was the qualifying race. And then the goal at Boston will be around that 2 35 mark. I'm not going to go quite as bold as Aaron and say 2 34 59.

I'd be pretty happy with, I've never broken 2 40 before. Anything under 2 40 will [00:05:00] be good, but around 2 35 will be the aim.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, this is your first one or?

Eric Bretl: Yeah, so first Boston and that's why I'm going to need to take some tips on people on how to wake up at 5 a. m. and get all your food in and get all your food back out before you start running at 10 a.

m., just like Aaron said. So I've done a few 10 a. m. runs, but I'm not used to waking up at 5 before I do them, taking a bus and all that good stuff. So that's probably the part I'm most nervous about, to be honest, is that the morning of. Everyone deals with it. So

Chris Detzel: yeah, have you been running marathons for a long time or

Eric Bretl: So pop up?

I've been running since about kovat is when I started. I would say I was a pretty big weightlifter and then I moved here to Texas and had not run before I guess this is getting into my whole backstory, but just a quick version is I ran the Dallas But yeah, I was half marathon in 2019. That was my first race.

I had the goal of sub 130, ran a 134, thought I trained super hard, thought I was never going to break 130. And then I found this [00:06:00] group to chase. And just as long as you, you stick as long as you can on the long runs, you get trapped for your first couple of years. And then all of a sudden you can keep up and you're going for 235 in the marathons.

Chris Detzel: That's great. You said you used to lift weights. So no wonder you had your shirt off. You just sworn off a little bit.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. Yeah. It's also cause I hold a lot more weight than a typical runner. So I overheat more often. That's my excuse.

Chris Detzel: That's a good one. That's a good one. No Javier always takes off his shirt.

I don't know if you guys know him and I'm always like, all right, dude, whatever. I was like, you should have your shirt off during the thing. But Jennifer Pelt, how are you? You're running London this year.

Jennifer Pope: Yes, I'm the imposter of the group today, not running Boston, I'll be doing London. But it's somewhat similar, they still needed it to get into the championship entry, they still had to have a qualifying time, so I guess you could say I got that last would have been at the, my last one had been the trials, but the one I submitted was the 236 and change from Houston of two years ago now, so I used that to get into the championship entry there and gonna make a vacation of it.

That's [00:07:00] great. I'm Liran. It was still up in the air if I was gonna be running London and I wasn't sure and I told you about it, but it was You know, hadn't heard back. So it's official, I'll be running London.

Chris Detzel: Congratulations. Do you have a goal time that you're trying to hit?

Jennifer Pope: So it's interesting, the entire build, I feel like it's changed.

Like January was a mess. I was, quite frankly, I was like, wow, can I even hit 245 back in January? And, it's each month it's gotten a little bit better. And so now I'm like, okay, maybe I'll go for 240. But if the next month is the peak. You know what, we have five weeks of real intense training and if that goes really well, maybe I can start.

Bringing it down. Initially, my goal was 235 like four months ago when I started getting back into it again. So if I can get there, I can get there. It'll still be another few weeks before I feel like I'll really know. But as of today, I'd probably say it's like 238. You never know. I'm not giving up hope yet.

Chris Detzel: Jennifer, what you've accomplished in just your short running career is pretty freaking amazing. And I just tell people that all the time. I think this woman started, in [00:08:00] COVID. I know you're a soccer player, just doing a lot of stuff. Good. What you're accomplished and what you're doing is it's pretty amazing So whatever you do in London is going to be great And i'm looking forward to seeing what you do and we'll talk about training in a minute But let's go over to Mimi Smith.

You're back on so welcome back really appreciate you coming back.

Mimi Smith: Thank you. Thank you Yeah I guess if we're counting from me, this is going to be my second boston I did boston in 2023 and my qualifying race I guess was Chicago of 23. So I ran a 2. 34 there that got me the qualifying time to be able to apply for Boston this past fall.

And honestly, I want to break 2. 35, but I have been approaching this marathon cycle a little bit less focused on a specific time I want to hit, because I feel like for me. In some of my marathons, I've been wanting to focus more on where do I start to basically lose my pace. I'm more hoping to just be a little bit more [00:09:00] consistent, go out a little bit slower, and hold my sub, maybe like sub 555s, around 550 pace for a little bit longer past mile 18, that would be a goal of mine.

Whatever time that goes, I just want to race well. I'll be starting with the pro field with the woman, I'm really hoping to hang on to a good group of gals and have them pull me along with them and vice versa So we'll see how it goes.

Chris Detzel: Congratulations on getting in the profile.

That's pretty awesome. Last time we spoke you weren't sure so here you are you're in and I think you're gonna do awesome So why don't we keep with you maybe and talk a little bit about your Training that kind of cycle how that's been going how you've been feeling and anything different than usual, what's been going on there?

Mimi Smith: Yeah so the big thing for me this cycle is I've increased my peak mileage up to 85 I want to say for Chicago when I qualified for this race about a year ago I want to say my peak was around 75 a couple marathon cycles in between I got up to 80 but [00:10:00] 85 is The peak highest that I've ever gotten.

And that's what generally they recommend about every year. If you're progressing and getting more into your training, going up 10 miles above your peak mileage up to a certain point. So that includes more doubles. And then I used to do a lot of swimming. I'm a little bit of a baby when it comes to the cold now, even though I'm from Chicago, I am completely Southern now.

I don't like getting in the water a lot in the winter. So I've used that opportunity to focus more on strength. So I'm getting two pretty high quality strength sessions in a week as well that I'm sure some other people on this call can attest to with a full time work schedule on top of the mileage that we're doing, it's actually very challenging to add the little things.

So those have been the two main components of this training cycle that have been more unique for me than other ones, along with just having a little bit more hills and trying to find hilly routes.

Chris Detzel: It's interesting. Did you learn anything from Eric over there? With the weight training or?

Mimi Smith: I learned it from PT school. Cost a lot more than probably if I had a phone call to [00:11:00] Eric.

Eric Bretl: She knows more than my YouTube PhD taught me. So

Chris Detzel: yeah, my YouTube PhD. Speaking of Eric, how's your training cycle been going? I'm going to just bounce around.

Eric Bretl: Yeah. Training has been going pretty good this past weekend.

I actually just got sick of the, it seems like everyone's getting sick these days, but before that it was going super good. I think my training approach this cycle was to just try and hang on to the people faster than me that have done things that I want to do. And. See how that goes.

I'm probably, I view myself as like fast enough, quick enough to run the pace for 235, but I don't necessarily have the endurance, so I've been just trying to hit more miles, like Mimi said, but then also just. Do long run workouts at about the pace, about faster the pace, and end with fast stuff.

Do longer long runs, longer easy runs. I haven't quite gotten to do any doubles, but I am still getting up in the 80s. So 80s and 80s doing singles is some longer single runs, which is, I think, helping me out too. And I'm definitely feeling at the end, stronger at the end of [00:12:00] long runs because of it.

Things are going well.

Chris Detzel: Pretty confident. You're feeling good going in? Good. That's good. Aaron, let's go to you. Cut him

Aaron: off card. There you go. I just need to unmute. Unmute. Yeah, training is going. I was looking back actually, ironically, probably like a week or so ago, just like where I was at with what I did in Chicago over the summer and like how many 20 milers I had ran.

So I. I've added in a lot more strength than what I have previously. I used to do a lot of strength. And also, I probably have significantly, yeah, everybody on this call probably has 30 percent more mileage per week than I do, on average, minimum. So I've started adding in at least more intensity through the longer workouts.

I'm higher. Higher threshold if you will, and then I will add more mileage just as a whole, as a whole, I think my peak mileage for Chicago was like 70, and I never really did more than like 320 milers, and I'm past that already, it is significantly faster paces, I feel good about that, I just, similar to Mimi, I like her mindset kind of approach for that, it's just, Bye.

How do I just continue to get better, but [00:13:00] also how can I do it at a way, at a pace that feels good. I like to be able to finish races strong. And that tells me that I did a good job at peaking at the right time. So I feel like this is good. It's coming together at the right times. I feel strong with runs and just want to continue that, continue to put in the longer, tougher workouts, but it's been more confidence building.

And then hopefully I can add in some mileage. These people keep making me. A lot of times they lie to me about the total distance we're gonna do. So then I end up running more anyway. And then it like tops that what I was going to do for that week. But it's for my benefit,

Chris Detzel: yeah that's one way to see it.

Are you doing strength training at all? Or is there none of that?

Aaron: Yeah, I'm doing strength about three times per week. I used to be, believe it or not, I'm a more of a football guy. And then ironically, I'm not that tall, but basketball and then track and running was like way down here. So because of football I did used to lift a lot.

But then just got out of that and probably in the last three or four years And i've gotten back into this. So i've been lifting about three times a week now.

Chris Detzel: That's pretty awesome one one [00:14:00] key thing i've been hearing so far is the strength training piece and I think that Probably to run that fast, and to maintain that consistently over the years, you're going to have to do a lot of that strength training.

So love to hear it. Not surprised to hear it on this particular podcast. because of who you guys are. Let's go to Brent, then Jenny, then Matt. So Brent, tell us a little bit about how you're going.

Brent Woodle: Yeah. So I had a really strong fall in terms of mileage and lactate threshold workouts. I was up to 110 miles and she's getting in some really good, long, long runs coming into the winter and spring.

I had more. I'll say family obligations, which kind of interrupted training over Christmas. And then I came down with an illness in January that took me out for a few days. So my spring training cycle is more abbreviated than what I'd like. I had maybe 10 or 11 weeks to train for Boston, but Cowtown Marathon is part of that.

And so running a marathon when you're not very fit also [00:15:00] impedes your training for the next couple of weeks. So I feel like I'm just getting started now on like actual training for Boston. So I'm going to keep it, I'm going to focus more on speed than I normally would. And I'll have less miles, like probably around 90 miles will be my peak, maybe 95 and lots of 5k pace, just because that's the type of pace work that I left out of my training in the fall.

So I feel like it's where I have the most to gain right now. But just, naturally how I run, I get in a lot of miles. So I'm not too worried about my endurance sticking around for the marathon, but we'll see. It'll be sketchy maybe in the last six miles, but we'll see if I can hold on. I feel like you've run a lot of, you ran Dallas full.

You ran Houston full as well? No, you ran half for Dallas, right? Yeah, I did the half in Dallas and then the full in Houston and the full at Cowtown. Yeah, you're just killing it in the amount of

Chris Detzel: miles or marathons anyways, fast marathons.

Brent Woodle: It was good through December. Cowtown was definitely a stretch.

I could feel that my [00:16:00] endurance had, it was pretty dramatically lower by that point, but it comes back. The big thing is just pacing. I won't have the endurance to go out at a Hard pace and hold on to that for two and a half hours. So I'll have to ramp up the effort throughout the race.

Chris Detzel: So I'd love to hear how you've been training and all that stuff.

Jennifer Pope: Yeah. It's interesting. I can echo both Mimi and Brenton that I am the. The mileage. I love mileage. I can do a lot of mileage back when I qualified. I think I peaked at one 20. It's like mileage is King.

It works. It's easy. Like I don't even necessarily care if I'm hitting a lot of paces during training, because just having that mileage, I felt. I had the endurance to keep going, and so it did work. I also needed Mimi two years ago because I also broke, of course, that's what happens as a, your new runner.

You want to push it. You're getting really fast, really quickly. And you, I have, I was doing so much running, and it was, you love it when you're doing so well. But, of course, I quickly ramped up through it was like [00:17:00] four back to back, marathon training cycles within the course of a couple years.

And It took its toll, and now it's trying to work my way back and get up there, but I'm still This will actually be one of the lowest marathon, mileage wise. And every single week, I'm trying to ask myself, Okay, do you do I think I can go past this? Still have the tendinitis, and I just have to be cautious, it doesn't Get bad again, but, and so it's, I do love that mileage, but I'll probably peak in the mid nineties.

I would think, do you think you'll take

Chris Detzel: some time off after London to continue to rest it? Or are you just going to get back into it?

Jennifer Pope: No, thankfully the summer is hot and it's a little bit more miserable. And so I'm going to, honestly, I'm going to, when I get back from London, I hope to get another PRP injection and then take a month or all summer off, take a good time off and then just take the summer, just easy running with friends.

not worry about the workouts but that's my goal right now is, I really want to do well at London, but the London isn't as important to me as the next OTQ cycle, and so I'm hoping to be fully healthy, not mostly healthy when I get [00:18:00] there because I want to do really well during that cycle, and that's the most important.

So I want to actually Take the time off while I can over the summer. See when that cycle opens. It could be the end of this year, they say. But it, a lot of times it's like a two year span. So probably next January would when they'd be opening that up. It'll be here before you know it, it will be, yeah.

And I'll be like all summer. I need to, I want to run, I want to run more. I want to run more. So I'll try to, I'll try my best to not run too as much. But but at least keep it fun running all summer. Nothing. Too intense a marathon build. We'll stop inviting

Eric Bretl: you.

Jennifer Pope: You what?

Eric Bretl: We'll stop inviting you to runs.

Jennifer Pope: Yeah. You're not,

Chris Detzel: you're no longer invited. I haven't been

Jennifer Pope: invited to any of these runs, by the way. You start to have these friends and they're all doing high mileage and they're all running really fast. And again, to his point before, you start chasing them and you get, you improve. And we talked about that last time, you're like, wow, like you met these friends and they just make you so much better.

And you keep following and it's great, but you also got to know what your own limits are too, [00:19:00] I was going

Chris Detzel: to go to Matt, is he still on, or?

Eric Bretl: Matt just said his computer just broke, so I think he's working on coming back. But something that I just noticed too, while Brent was talking earlier is Brent is faster than most, if not all of us on this call.

And he was talking about how he's going to do not so high a mileage, only 95. And all of us are talking about, Oh, we're going to peak. And that's going to be 80, 85, 90 miles. And he's yeah, I'm going to do low mileage, only 95 this time. So there's a difference for you in the caliber of runner that we're talking about too.

Chris Detzel: That sounds like you have something to learn from Brent just because Yeah, exactly. As we work on it, maybe that's

Eric Bretl: the way to do

Chris Detzel: it.

Eric Bretl: I don't know. Eventually, hopefully that'll be the goal, but that'll be years.

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, but not to the point where you break. You're not, you gotta listen to that part too.

Mimi Smith: And I would also say for all the people who are probably going to be listening to this podcast you've got a lot of people who are on here that do run a lot of high mileage. And to be honest, like to be able to run this type of mileage that professional runners and collegiate D1 athletes are running on top of full time job is Extremely [00:20:00] challenging and not always realistic to your schedule.

And I know for me personally, like I had said earlier, I'm a physical therapist and I'm on my feet doing pretty heavy lifting because I work in acute care all day long. So for me running really high mileage might not be sustainable given the fact that I don't get to recover, for eight hours while I'm at work.

Or there might be some people on here who I don't have any children, but a lot of people on this phone call have children, and they're not able to get their doubles in, or do their strength stuff, a cautionary tale to, it's not always, you can still run really fast and do your training, but everyone's kind of training is like a fingerprint, you gotta just.

Figure out what works best for you and your schedule and just cause you maybe might not be able to get the high mileage. Doesn't mean that you can't run fast or run a good marathon cause I know some people who hardly get up, they might get up into the sixties. And I think when I first started doing marathon training, I was getting only up to the sixties and could still run really fast.

There's loads of ways to do it, you just got to find what works best for you and what your body can handle, given your lifestyle. Yeah, and to

Brent Woodle: Mimi's point, a lot of [00:21:00] my miles come in doubles. And so it's been optimized over the year. I build my life schedule around running sometimes, but Probably only 50 or 60 of my miles come in singles, at this point in my training.

And so I'm never too overly fatigued from one run.

Chris Detzel: Can you talk about doubles real quick? What do you mean, just running twice a day or?

Brent Woodle: Yeah. Yeah. So I work from home. Before I had kids, I could double and work in an office, but now with kids, I think you have to work from home to be able to double effectively, but I'll finish up my first run by let's say seven 30.

I want to have a gap of at least three hours, probably four, before my second run. But for me, the second run is always an easy run, usually on my treadmill, which is right there. And just four or five miles at a just very easy pace, just to loosen things up.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, maybe. Thank you so much for bringing that up.

I think that's important. I brought you guys on because, you guys are doing, elite athlete things, and you're right. Most of [00:22:00] us, including myself, I'm not going to run even 60 miles a week. I don't run marathons anymore. I do a lot of halves and I'll do some 20 mile, things like that.

But and then a lot of, look, you don't want to hurt yourself. You want to be smart about your running and training. With that said, I'm just going to open it up now to to, as you think about fueling and just as you. Think about what you eat and things like that, and whoever wants to answer it. How do you think about that before race day?

And I'll point at you if you want, but Jennifer.

Jennifer Pope: Okay. Yeah, I think it's often You have to practice it. We're doing a lot of long runs now where we're reaching 20, 22, 24 miles on some of our long runs. And so you just got to start practicing what your stomach can handle. You got to start You know, preparing to be drinking while, some water or something while you're running.

This last, this past Sunday we did a long run and for me it had a good 10 miles at marathon pace. And I think I can see four gels during that run and that's even probably [00:23:00] not enough. I probably want more on race day. But I was also, thankfully able to stop at the car and stuff and kind of get some more water.

But I think training, you got to know what your gut can handle because you don't want to. You need. Number one, to throw up or have a, GI emergency out there, and sometimes some gels don't settle. And I always think of, I want to know if I miss a water stop. Is the gel just going to sit in my stomach and make me feel uncomfortable for that part of that run?

And then something else I always think about when I'm running a marathon is I just, unless you actually have bottles on the course, which most runners don't, is just never skip a water stop. If you can grab a cup, even if it's a quarter full, and that's all you get out of it, take it. And then that way, if you drop a cup at the next one, no big deal, and you're still getting, continuing to get those fluids in.

But, that's what my thoughts are. Anybody

Chris Detzel: else want

Jennifer Pope: to

Eric Bretl: pipe

Jennifer Pope: up?

Eric Bretl: I'll chime in right away, because I remember the first marathon I ever ran, I ran with Jennifer for 21 of the miles until she dropped me and beat me by a couple minutes. But she had said to me, [00:24:00] just don't skip a water stop. Whatever you don't skip a water stop.

And my goal was 245 and I ran a 244 and I didn't skip a water stop. So to this day, I am not skipping a water stop because I don't know what will happen if I do.

Chris Detzel: Anybody curious, my wife calls it a sippy cup, I just, carry a water bottle the whole time. I can run a 5k and I'm running, I'm used to the water bottle.

I was like, I don't want to be thirsty. So

Matt Barron: I do, Chris, I carry either a plastic bottle. I usually take like a kid sports bottle. And just hold that because I realized that like fancier bottles are actually less lightweight and less easy to carry for a long race. And then you can just trash it and not feel bad for wasting 35 or 40 bucks during the middle of a race.

Chris Detzel: It's a good point. And I want to come back to Matt since he's got back on is tell us a little bit. What was the question? I forgot already because, we passed it. About your training and, things like that, like what were you, what'd you do before Boston and, how are you approaching the race?

Matt Barron: Yeah, if the group didn't make the joke before my [00:25:00] computer is very like my training cycle and that it was a bit broken. And so I had a really good buildup before Houston in January and PR there but then have been doing a lot of travel for work. And on one of those trips, I was just running around Jacksonville, which is a city I don't know very well.

At 5 a. m. When we typically run and tripped off the curb and sprained my during it. And so my, I only missed probably like a little less than a week, but it was just. You know hard to build back up plus the other travel and works just been busy. i've been at I've gone back up to 75 miles last week.

I'll probably stay around here 75 to 80 And then I do a little less strength than I wish I would and so I do that once a week on sundays just given given family and my job, but i've been doing a lot more hill work This cycle and prep for Boston and so hopefully should be able to stay consistent over the next five or five or six weeks ahead.

But I also think the way Mimi talked about training earlier is the healthiest way, which is like [00:26:00] I had a time goal in mind for Boston originally, which was closer to 235. But to be honest, I'm just going to do a prep race at the end of the month and just run whatever the race tells me I should run as my starting pace and see how it goes.

And then, this is one Boston, there's a million other marathons after this. And so I'll get that goal eventually. And it's more about falling in love with the process in the community that you do it with. And so I'm very happy with that.

Chris Detzel: And I love how you brought community in this because it sounds like most of you run together at some point.

I think that's amazing. The community, I think is a big part of, the running kind of atmosphere. I'm a big community. I do that for a living is building communities. And I just love in one of my favorite is the running community. When you've guys have built the speed that you go at, but.

You've built, you've brought together a community that are doing similar things, right? Speeds and paces and all these things, and you're trying to hit goals. And I think that's what it's about. Why you can, and hopefully you can do this for a long time. I know Brett's one time told me, he goes, look, I'm 40 now.

I got [00:27:00] to try to win that Houston what is it? 40 and above kind of thing. But I talked to a guy, his name's, yeah, the masters, Cal Neff, one that I don't know if you know him at all, but I interviewed him the other day or a couple of weeks ago or about a month ago, actually.

But I was hoping you were going to one, Brett,

Brent Woodle: Not this time around. I haven't got a seventh masters that he's

Chris Detzel: There's a lot of fast people there at Houston. A lot of really good. It's a tough one for sure. So I'm going to throw this out, there's always this thing about Heartbreak Hill at Boston and things like that.

Does that scare you guys or is it like, no, that's not even the hardest part. What's the mentality going into not just Boston, but some parts of it, like Heartbreak Hill. Is there any parts of it that bothers you guys or is the hardest or? What is it? Anybody can

Mimi Smith: tell you about my first experience.

I had a friend who was telling me about the race. She is like ultra Boston fan was telling me there's four hills. There's four hills. There's four hills. And in my mind, I kept thinking a hill is [00:28:00] an up followed by a down. And so when I'm running up the hills, I'm thinking, okay, if I go up, I have to go down.

So I get up the first one, which is like an up, and then a second, and then I go down. Okay, hill number one. Then we go up the second, like a little, and then we go up again. I'm like, okay, I'm approaching hill number two. And then I look up and I see you've reached the top of Heartbreak Hill. So I thought I was on my second out of four, and I turned out to be my last.

So I turned to someone next to me on the crowd. I go, Is this Heartbreak Hill? And they go, What? And I go, Is this the Heartbreak Hill? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, yeah, and that guy probably thought I was cooked in the mind at that point, but They're not that bad. Okay. All right

Jennifer Pope: It's funny Mimi says that because I just remember everyone was it's so hilly It's so hilly and you have to prepare for that you have to run hills, but I think I went too slow up heartbreak hill because everyone was like run it easy, don't over push on the hill, and looking back, I probably would have pushed a little bit more on that Heartbreak Hill, because it's still a hill, you have to respect it, but it wasn't nearly as [00:29:00] back, as bad as, it was made out to be in my own head, and so I was like, oh, I made it to the top?

We're good. Let's finish this.

Chris Detzel: I'm interested. I love that, Jennifer, and Eric's never done it. So what is it that you're just, thinking about as you go into BAL since you're first? You've heard a lot about it because, all your friends have done it several times. Is there anything that, I don't know if it scares you, but is there anything that you're concerned about or thinking about?

Eric Bretl: I would say the more thing I'm more concerned about than heartbreak is that it's downhill until then, so I don't want my quads to give out by that time. So I've heard from some people that's more of the concern is that you don't want to go bang yourself too hard down those hills so that you can't go up.

And I guess the thing in my mind, it's not a world record eligible course because it's net downhill, so I'm gonna go fast. There's a maybe it's a bad mindset, maybe it's a rookie mindset. Yeah not too many concerns, and I think another thing that maybe we forget about, we, I think Mimi and Jennifer were both saying maybe it wasn't as bad as they thought, we run a lot more than the average [00:30:00] runner, so we have the miles, those runners are maybe they're, there was nothing wrong with it, running 20, 30 miles a week, and then yeah, a hill at mile 21 is going to be hard, but when you've done 3, 4, 5, 24 mile long runs with some pace work and we're hitting 80 miles a week, hopefully that prepares us more, and I think the, yeah.

Going back to my first marathon, I had the goal of 245 and everyone's whoa, that's a really bold goal for a first marathon. But my first marathon was also three years after running with this group of people going 60, 70 miles a week, hitting 22 miles for a long run. So if your first marathon, you've hit a 13 mile long run as your long run, that's great, but then obviously you're.

Your expectations are a little bit tempered. So I'm not overly concerned about it. I'm not going to overthink it, but it is something in my mind for the downhill running at the beginning is to don't go too fast, just because it's downhill, don't bank time as the one thing in my mind,

Matt Barron: I think one thing Eric brought up at the beginning that people underrate to with.

Boston and New York is the same way is they're really late start races. And especially when you're like a large male [00:31:00] that needs a lot of nutrition to run any marathon. It actually, it makes a huge difference though. Starting at 10 a. m. versus.

Chris Detzel: Are you talking about Aaron or Eric? Which large male?

I'm not sure. But yeah, talking

Matt Barron: about Mimi,

Chris Detzel: but

Matt Barron: but no, it makes a huge difference because you essentially need to like you're missing lunch in there too. And we're used to running at 5 most days. So we just haven't gone through that long. And it's all it's always hard to eat marathon morning. I actually think training for that and training to be able to get the right nutrition in your bodies is a big deal before the race because if you start depleted, it's really hard to catch up throughout the race.

Eric Bretl: For reference for listeners out there, I say I'm heavier and Matt says that we're bigger runners. I'm about 185 pounds, which. Isn't overly heavy, but for someone running 240, 235, I think it's on the heavier side of people running that, that pace. I'm still also going with the, is it, can my body store more glycogen so I don't need as many gels?

Am I using more glycogen by carrying more [00:32:00] weight so I need more gels? Which one, do I just need the same amount of gels because of both? We're still toying with that as well.

Mimi Smith: I would say also too, all jokes aside for hill running, and this is just how you need to approach hills on any race, whether it's like a 5k or a marathon, you maintain effort up hills, not pace.

And that's I think something we've been talking about too as a group when we train and we're, we have sections where there is a hill. That you want to look at the average mile for the pace because if you do get a downhill, you will be going faster than your marathon pace, and when you go up it, you'll be going slower than your marathon pace.

So don't look at a watch, see that you're running 20 seconds slower than your average pace and start sprinting. That's not how you run hills. Maintain your effort with it. Whether that's your heart rate might go up a little bit. So just overall, like what you feel and then get to the top and then be able to pick it up a little bit on the flat or downhill and you'll be fine.

But yeah, definitely don't sprint up hills.

Brent Woodle: I think one of the best [00:33:00] tips for beginner marathoners, but also maybe more advanced marathoners is if you can not look at your watch pace at all and just run it based on effort. Or at least take splits like every 5k, give or take. These days, I try to do that just because I'm so eager that if I'm looking at my watch pace, I just know I'm going to go out faster than what I should.

And I'm trying to convince myself, if I'm gonna look at anything now, it's just heart rate. At least until the Last 10K, then I can let it go. Love that.

Aaron: Aaron, any thoughts? Just, I think just an echo from what everybody else has said, which is that I think for me learning this and also, like I said, just having several, I spent probably 10, 12 minutes in the bathroom in Boston in my first race, cause I did not know how to feel correctly and had no clue what the heck to do.

And and what to eat as well, which, so I think from that as like a. People say, the luck is when preparation meets opportunity at that point. And so a lot of preparation, just echoing what everyone else has said is the biggest key here. I'm getting as many dress [00:34:00] rehearsals, as many reps as possible so that when you show up, you just have the confidence.

But I thought the Hills were going to be crazy as well. But I think even my first Boston, I felt amazing other than just, visiting and making sure that the people, money who put those porta potties out. We're we're used. I felt great throughout the race. So I really do think that preparation that time beforehand is really important.

And I, that's what I'm going to be planning on doing just for long runs in general, or just fueling is making sure that I narrowed that down. And then the one that's out of the scope, if you will, or out of our control, it's just weather. I just hope we have a great weather. Cause that's all of our training, all of our paces, all of our times have to adjust depending on the weather where it's, the 20, whatever it was, Boston where it's freezing cold or the.

The ones that are extremely hot. I'm just enjoying it. I think what Matt said earlier was actually great. Which is just enjoying the process. I think at some point, I say this a lot because I have two kids now. But also just a team of people I work with a lot. Which is that these are quote unquote the good [00:35:00] old days.

We just don't realize it. At some point, we're all not going to be able to be running together, so I'm just enjoying the early mornings, even if Jennifer gives us crap about doing it.

Chris Detzel: Sounds like it's early and, look I think that's just the nature of building these relationships, right? Some of these relationships, you have more kids or something happens in life, you get married or there's just lots of things that happen.

That you'll just remember and embrace these experiences that why you have them because I've been doing this for a long time and I thought this group I'm going to be with forever, but you're not. That's just the reality. Any

Matt Barron: cool story. Yeah. But one last thing, just as we talk about prepping for Boston, I do think the important part about Boston is it is super downhill after heartbreak and that's where all the colleges are.

And so the fans are amazing. So it is one in particular where it makes you can get, you can gain a lot of time on the last six miles. And so going out conservatively is definitely recommended. Not that's not recommended in every race, but it can make it, you can really carve out a lot of time on those last [00:36:00] six miles.

That's a good

Chris Detzel: point. Appreciate that. Any kind of like fun experience that you've had in Boston? Like you look back and you're like, Oh my God, that was awesome. Or something cool that, that you saw or did or, during the race was interesting. Anything like that? I know it's out of the blue question, so sorry about that, but I was just thinking about that.

If not, I'll move

Brent Woodle: on. I wouldn't call this like a positive experience, but I think it was 2018 where we had the headwind. It was like a 20 mile an hour headwind and cold rain blowing into your face the entire time. So it wasn't a great race to run. No one was putting out a fast time, but I look back on that as one of my biggest running accomplishments, like just being able to get through it.

I remember that marathon more than just about any of the others that I've run. When the wind is blowing like that on a marathon, it's gonna be rough. Yeah, my eyes actually hurt after the race. I ran it with a hat, but the rain is coming at you sideways, and so it [00:37:00] was getting under the bill of the hat and into your eyes.

Is

Chris Detzel: that the one Des London one? Yeah.

Brent Woodle: Yeah. So that's actually an interesting point, talking about, bigger runners. They, the bigger runners all did really well in that race. Des Linden is, just slightly bigger than the other elites and that really worked out well for her in that race.

Chris Detzel: Looks like that Japanese dude won,

Brent Woodle: yeah, exactly. Yuki Kawaguchi, is that right? I forgot his name.

Chris Detzel: But, yeah, it's a good point. All the other super fast people just dropped out, and they're like I'm not dealing with this cult. The people who are super skinny going into that

Brent Woodle: race, most of them ended up in heating tents.

It was just miserable when you stopped running, your hands would be numb. You couldn't even take off your clothes.

Matt Barron: And then for, yeah, for me, Chris, I was there. An interesting story is I was there. I wasn't running it, but I was watching during 2013 during the Boston bombing. And so Boston means a lot to me.

That's why I always wanted to get into marathons and start running it. And so that gives a little fire to coming back and trying to get a good time on the [00:38:00] course. I

Chris Detzel: had a, I used to work at a, at this company and one of my clients, we talked all the time and he ran Boston Marathon that year.

Oh, look who made it. That's pretty awesome. We have a guest, special guest, sorry, and his daughter joined us. So yeah, that, that was a special time. I remember my wife. I started running it the year after, and she's done it 12 times after that, but so definitely a crazy time then.

So final question, and this is going to be for everybody, I'm going to have everybody answer this is what's next after Boston and London, what's next for you as you think about it, we got that from Jennifer, we'll get that again in a minute, we'll have. But so start thinking about that.

I'm going to put Aaron on the spot this time, first, so that, he doesn't have to say, yeah, what everybody else said.

Aaron: Yeah right now I'm, I am a much bigger, I would say, picture thinker for pretty much everywhere else in my life. Which is why I like this group is because I have to plan everything else.

So I kind of default to what's going on there. But I. So I don't have necessarily a race or a goal or anything [00:39:00] in mind necessarily, just to continue to get stronger, to continue to get faster, but there isn't I wouldn't say necessarily a race that is on the horizon, if you will just staying in shape, spending time with friends and then just living up to the potential that I have.

I think that's something that I wrestle with a lot, which is that if I ran more mileage, if I did these things, I think we put in our heads, sometimes these words like should, and we put, I think, or label certain things to do certain things. I do think that I have a certain level of talent that I'm probably not living up to.

So I think that's just my continuation, like the continuation of reaching that potential, getting stronger, getting faster, and just enjoying it. I think so many people put so much pressure on themselves that they actually just burn out and then not end up enjoying it. So I want to continue to enjoy my running, get faster, spend time with friends, and Document along the way.

Gotta get some more camera stuff out here, I don't know where my camera's at now, but I like the document, and I don't do it as much with running, but I'd like to do some more of that, just to look back on, do some vlogging stuff, [00:40:00] so I may incorporate that a lot more towards the summer stuff, but specific race, I don't know yet.

Whatever these guys end up telling me I need to run.

Chris Detzel: I like that, you have to start pushing it out on Reels and YouTube Shorts and all of those things, so that we can all enjoy it, mimi!

Mimi Smith: Yeah, sorry have to head off in a bit thanks for letting me go. I guess after Boston, I'm gonna try to use the the summer and fall to maybe get a little bit more speed and train for some 5K.

Ks, 10 Ks maybe a couple of faster halves. Jennifer talked about this earlier, about how the OTQ cycle is supposed to start at, in January of 2026. I waited really last minute, last time to get OTQ. So my goal is to try to get it in Houston as soon as possible. So the next couple of years leading up, I can just do races I want.

I would love to do New York City. Just try to do some marathons in places. With family and friends and try to do some different things like that. But right now, Houston is going to be the next marathon after [00:41:00] Boston. Just a shout out to all the people on this call, I definitely would not be able to have done any of the things I've done in the marathon without a group like this to all the runners out there, even if it's just one other person you can tag team with to do your training, it takes you a lot farther than you can ever get by yourself with that, I'm gonna head on out, but thank you so much, Chris, for having us, and I probably will see you all tomorrow morning.

Matt Barron: Yeah my, my next marathon will be Dallas. At the end of the year after this one, I'll do some local races in between just like five K, 10 Ks beer miles. But but I'll also echo what Aaron said though. I think of life, there's four major pillars. There's your family, there's your fitness, there's your community, and then there's your personal goals.

And I think finding the right balance between those is what you have to do. And so I think it's always good to what the, how hard marathon running is to have some target. Come some target race or some outcome you want to drive toward, but not being too rigid in terms of what that exactly looks like or what time you want to run that and find the right balance across the different things you're [00:42:00] prioritizing.

I like that. Jenny?

Jennifer Pope: Yeah, after London, I want to, like I said, just take some time easy. I hope to Take a good month of, not a full month, but just take a little bit of time off, and then just do some 5Ks, 10Ks. Nothing I really care about too much as far as, oh, I need to get a PR or anything, especially in Texas summer.

It's, it's tough just to get through the summer, let alone try to get a bunch of PR. So I'm not gonna put any of that on my shoulders, or. , just have some fun with friends. And then of course, like I said before, that once, if that OTQ cycle opens, I don't know if I'll try to get in right in January.

Mimi said, the first thing that opens, but sometimes, you might have a bad race and so you, yeah, you don't wanna wait till the end. So you know, that will be probably the next goal, the next big goal that I have. But I don't know exactly what race or the timing of that right now. So we'll see what happens.

Chris Detzel: Houston's always a good one, if you can make that one, just because it's fast and generally good weather, yeah, that's

Jennifer Pope: where I got it before, and I've now run that one the full twice and the half once. And so that one's just, it's super convenient. [00:43:00] I love it. Yeah, it's a great one to jump into.

Chris Detzel: Great, thank you. Brent yeah, Brent, let's go to Brett next. I was looking at Eric and I said, Brent.

Brent Woodle: Yeah, so at least through the rest of the spring and the summer, I'm gonna try and take things casually. Now that I am in the Master's division I want to race more frequently, but just not put.

100 percent effort into any given race, because when you, your expectations get that high, it puts a lot of pressure on yourself. And if things go wrong, you get disappointed. I'm hoping this year to race throughout the year, stay in good shape, maybe not peak shape, but anywhere there's a race, I want to be there.

So I have the Lincoln marathon actually two weeks after Boston. So I should be able to maintain my marathon fitness for. That extra two weeks, but then over the summer, it's just going to be group runs and then some speed work during the week and finding opportunities to race 5ks. Ideally, I'd run a 5k on a track if I can find something like that.

I've never done it before, [00:44:00] but that, that will be probably the best 5k fitness that I'll have.

Chris Detzel: That'd be smoking fast, dude. That'd be fun to watch you do that.

Brent Woodle: Yeah, we'll see. It would be great. I might have to get out of Texas to do it, which will be trouble with the family. But. I'll slide.

Eric Bretl: Yeah, I'm gonna echo a lot of what people said here going last. No echoes here. There's

Chris Detzel: just, it's your own personal thing.

Eric Bretl: Sticking out the whole theme of, community is Aaron ended his portion saying this wherever everyone else tells me I have to run. That's what I do too, is just where's the group going?

What are we training for next? Because a lot of the fun of this is training with each other. So we pick a date that works for every I think CIM is on the cat, at people's radar right now. It's not necessarily confirmed. It's so far away, but people are like, oh, would you train for that? I'd train for that.

So I don't like to pick a marathon that I would have to train for alone. Granted, a lot of miles would be with friends either way. But doing the hard workouts with each other, getting in the grind zone with each other, just like keeping each other accountable is part of the fun of it and Why I got in it, if I was training on my own, I'd maybe run 30 miles a week with a [00:45:00] 10 mile long run, but my friends are going 24 miles, I'm going 24 miles too, so they just push you to be better and part of the, another thing that we talked about is the OTQ for Jennifer and Mimi part of the fun is helping those girls get that OTQ mark and it's helping, I say helping them, they're both faster than I am, so I'll help as much as I can.

They're helping you get faster. Yeah, exactly. But being a 235 guy, I'm it's really fast for a guy. It's definitely above average, and closing in on elite level. But really, there's a 218 is the OTQ for men, and I have no aspirations of ever getting that. The next best thing is to help these girls that are living out this OTQ dream that's super cool for them.

Yeah. Something that we won't be able to do. We could do, maybe if we put our mind to it. But not the amount of work that I'm willing to put in. But helping those girls do that is part of the fun of it too, it's a big community thing. Wherever everyone else is doing, I'll probably do that race too.

And we'll train together and it'll be fun. And we can talk about it when we're 80 years old over coffee.

Chris Detzel: I love coffee. I always can't wait until my next coffee.

Jennifer Pope: Let me just let me just say this. Something [00:46:00] funny is for a long time, there are some people that didn't know Eric's name and they just always knew that he ran with me.

And so for a lot of these social ones, I had some, they would, there were some people that would come up to me like, Oh, where's your pacer? Where's your pacer at this run? And I was like, my pacer. And so for a while he became pacer, Eric. He's just, he would just pace the workouts, but he's very good at it.

Chris Detzel: Shirtless guy. The shirtless pacer. Yep. I love that. Brian, who do you run with? These guys obviously run together. You live like in Allen or

Brent Woodle: something, so it's actually funny, I haven't been running with groups lately. The sloths actually run about two miles from my house. Maybe even tomorrow, I'll have to send you guys a text about that.

But timing wise and just the specific workouts haven't lined up lately. I do intend to go to more sloth runs coming up, in the next few months, so we'll see. You guys will have to hold me to that. Yeah, somebody's gonna have to text him,

Chris Detzel: Get him out there. Anything that I missed that you guys are just, oh, you should have asked, I want to tell, I want to say more [00:47:00] about it, or whatever.

About Boston or London or whatever. No,

Matt Barron: The quietness is always the tough part. No, just thank you for investing to build the community even more. I think this is what the slots came out of an idea that Jennifer and some others had to lead the group. And I think it takes people investing in the community to continue to see it grow.

And so really just appreciate you having us on and inviting us to talk about our experience.

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And I want to thank Jennifer for, she was like, Hey, what we could do is. We could basically have four or five of these guys talking and we could just have a round table I was like give me their names i'll reach out to them And so I was like matter I bet hardly anybody makes it but all of you made it And I just got an email like probably right before before we all got on I didn't see it until Late.

Rena was Rena. I don't know that she couldn't get on for some reason. I was like, ah, so I will get her on separately. And if I haven't spoken to you, we'll definitely do if you want a one on one to go deeper into your background and why you started running and things like that. And if you have been on, I'm open to [00:48:00] having you on again, if you're, want to be on again. So with that, I think we can close this out. So thank you everyone for coming to DFW running talk, please write and review us and please listen in, tell your friends and things like that. So thank you everyone for coming. Really appreciate it. Yeah.

Brent Woodle: Thank you for having us.

Yeah. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.